What is the value of the AMD 8370 (if any)?

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DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,797
11,143
136
He asked what value if any this chip has. Everyone replied that it has no value or very terrible value.

If that's the case, then why did anyone even bring up Intel?

That can be googled, ebay'd, craigslist, easily enough on ones own.

Lots of folks are guilty of asking questions they should be able to answer on their own. Sometimes it's easier just to ask others. In this case, he probably would have been better off not asking here.

Not everyone knows to ask the right questions. He got the right answers.

Yeah, see, that attitude is one of the reasons why the guy posted in the wrong forum. Who are we to dictate what questions he should or should not ask? Seriously? It's not like I'm going to go to some thread started by a guy that wants to game on Intel iGPUs and tell him to get an AMD APU instead. Some folks might, but that would be the wrong answer, even if such respondents felt like they were giving the "right answers" anyway.

Many of us - and I use the word 'us' here 'cause I have to check myself against this behavior as well - seem to have developed the attitude that we know better, so much so that we can declare whether or not someone has asked "the right questions", which is a pretty lousy way to go about dealing with forum posters.

Honestly I don't think the OP got much useful information since he isn't even posting in this thread anymore.

It may be quibbling semantics, but I still stand by my statement that asking the "value" of a processor is not really the right way to evaluate whether you should purchase it or not. In fact, I don't think you can accurately assess a "value" at all. You estimate the "value" at 100.00 apparently. That seems reasonable, but how do you reach that figure? It is arbitrarily reached by reducing the price due to higher power usage and lower performance in most tasks. The monetary additional cost of power usage can be estimated pretty accurately, but how much to reduce the "value" based on performance is totally arbitrary.

Actually it's based on the fact that AMD is discounting their own CPUs heavily via added premiums. Their tactic is based on the idea that they can acquire game keys in bulk (read: at a per-key cost lower than which is available to the average consumer) and then bundle them with CPUs to bring down the real-world purchasing cost to the consumer. Ditto for the Wraith cooler which most people consider to be about a $20 HSF. AMD certainly isn't paying $20 per unit to include those.

By the OP's own numbers, the 8370 is a $120 CPU, which puts it in i3 territory. But you have to overpay for a PSU that can handle it, and then there's the power cost of running one over some arbitrary amount of time - let's say 6 months. I use 6 months here since that's about how long we'll be waiting for Zen, and I'm sure he'll be rethinking his purchase by that time (so will anyone else buying AM3+ today). That may be the only arbitrary consideration since we don't know how often the CPU will stay pegged at full power given the OP's usage patterns. Regardless, let's say it's $10-$20 more PSU to run the system and $10-$20 more in power over a 6 month period. We can bring the value of the CPU down to $80-$100 in that fashion. It's still fuzzy math, but now we're dialing in a value closer to what the CPU is really worth to the OP, rather than the $120 value he listed. Under the circumstances, I'd say he would be overpaying to get an 8370 bundled with warhammer + the wrath cooler if he pays out $200.

The OP could adjust that value according to whether or not he already has a PSU suitable for his "new" AM3+ system, his own usage patterns, etc.

In any case the prices of an i5 and the FX "are what they are". That is the only figure that we can give a hard number to. One can price out a system with both chips. Then he must decide if the actual dollar savings of the AMD chip are worth living with the disadvantages of the system for several years. Or, one can just decide to buy AMD no matter what, which TBH seems to be the case with the OP.

Yes, he does seem slanted towards AMD. It makes me wonder why people try to steer posters like that towards Intel (or vice versa). It's like telling a Chevy guy to buy Ford, even if (for his purposes) Ford might be a much-better purchase.

It's pretty obvious that the OP is making a poor choice even within AMD's own product stack. Better to help him optimize that purchase within his set of preconceived biases than try to radically shift his purchasing behaviors. As you can see, the plethora of "buy Intel" responses have turned him away from his own thread. He gave one response in which he defended his purchase for his use-case as making sense (paying 78% as much for an i5-6600 for 90% of the performance), and maybe for him, it really does make some sense.

Nobody here really wanted to hear that from him, though.
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
Look at the chart above, it is years that i5s cant match the FX, that s reality, far from the urban legends, and still, the FX is using 1600MHz RAM
in thoses tests even if it support 1866, go figure why they used such memory...
Charts don't matter, AMD FX is expensive, runs slow, runs hot, it delivers terrible value and is less reliable, do I need to say more? AMD only sell because they give freebies and are unlocked by default, that doesn't however change they are still bad choice for anything. The i5 costs just a few bucks more and provides so much better value. By going with AMD you are getting much less for your money. If you already would own a mobo and you could get pretty good deal on some special promo it could be reasonable to some degree, but even then I would hesitate to buy FX. The OP wants to build from scratch, so he either has choice to go skylake or wait for zen(if it will be good ofc).
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
If that's the case, then why did anyone even bring up Intel?

It's pretty obvious that the OP is making a poor choice even within AMD's own product stack. Better to help him optimize that purchase within his set of preconceived biases than try to radically shift his purchasing behaviors. As you can see, the plethora of "buy Intel" responses have turned him away from his own thread. He gave one response in which he defended his purchase for his use-case as making sense (paying 78% as much for an i5-6600 for 90% of the performance), and maybe for him, it really does make some sense.

Nobody here really wanted to hear that from him, though.
No one is asking OP to go off AMD per se, what they do say is that current AMD's lineup has no good offers and that he should wait for zen or get a skylake now, what's wrong with that?
 

Sweepr

Diamond Member
May 12, 2006
5,148
1,142
131
Look at the chart above, it is years that i5s cant match the FX, that s reality, far from the urban legends

Right. Years that Hardware.fr has been using highly-multithreaded software to showcase AMD in a more favourable light. Let's check what PCLab's more varied performance summary shows:

- Stock

Games



Applications



- Overclocked

Games



Applications

 
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bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
39,124
12,024
146
Honestly, I think that people should be able to recommend Intel chips to AMD people and AMD chips to Intel people. Just having a bias (who doesn't?) doesn't mean that most cannot look at things objectively and make a purchase based on many variables. I have been historically an AMD guy, both CPUs and GPUs. However, I have been with Intel since Nehalem. I went with nVidia my last time around as it was the right decision for me. I will happily return to AMD if they put out a competitive product at the time I am making that decision again in the future.
 

2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
If that's the case, then why did anyone even bring up Intel?



Lots of folks are guilty of asking questions they should be able to answer on their own. Sometimes it's easier just to ask others. In this case, he probably would have been better off not asking here.



Yeah, see, that attitude is one of the reasons why the guy posted in the wrong forum. Who are we to dictate what questions he should or should not ask? Seriously? It's not like I'm going to go to some thread started by a guy that wants to game on Intel iGPUs and tell him to get an AMD APU instead. Some folks might, but that would be the wrong answer, even if such respondents felt like they were giving the "right answers" anyway.

Many of us - and I use the word 'us' here 'cause I have to check myself against this behavior as well - seem to have developed the attitude that we know better, so much so that we can declare whether or not someone has asked "the right questions", which is a pretty lousy way to go about dealing with forum posters.

Honestly I don't think the OP got much useful information since he isn't even posting in this thread anymore.



Actually it's based on the fact that AMD is discounting their own CPUs heavily via added premiums. Their tactic is based on the idea that they can acquire game keys in bulk (read: at a per-key cost lower than which is available to the average consumer) and then bundle them with CPUs to bring down the real-world purchasing cost to the consumer. Ditto for the Wraith cooler which most people consider to be about a $20 HSF. AMD certainly isn't paying $20 per unit to include those.

By the OP's own numbers, the 8370 is a $120 CPU, which puts it in i3 territory. But you have to overpay for a PSU that can handle it, and then there's the power cost of running one over some arbitrary amount of time - let's say 6 months. I use 6 months here since that's about how long we'll be waiting for Zen, and I'm sure he'll be rethinking his purchase by that time (so will anyone else buying AM3+ today). That may be the only arbitrary consideration since we don't know how often the CPU will stay pegged at full power given the OP's usage patterns. Regardless, let's say it's $10-$20 more PSU to run the system and $10-$20 more in power over a 6 month period. We can bring the value of the CPU down to $80-$100 in that fashion. It's still fuzzy math, but now we're dialing in a value closer to what the CPU is really worth to the OP, rather than the $120 value he listed. Under the circumstances, I'd say he would be overpaying to get an 8370 bundled with warhammer + the wrath cooler if he pays out $200.

The OP could adjust that value according to whether or not he already has a PSU suitable for his "new" AM3+ system, his own usage patterns, etc.



Yes, he does seem slanted towards AMD. It makes me wonder why people try to steer posters like that towards Intel (or vice versa). It's like telling a Chevy guy to buy Ford, even if (for his purposes) Ford might be a much-better purchase.

It's pretty obvious that the OP is making a poor choice even within AMD's own product stack. Better to help him optimize that purchase within his set of preconceived biases than try to radically shift his purchasing behaviors. As you can see, the plethora of "buy Intel" responses have turned him away from his own thread. He gave one response in which he defended his purchase for his use-case as making sense (paying 78% as much for an i5-6600 for 90% of the performance), and maybe for him, it really does make some sense.

Nobody here really wanted to hear that from him, though.

Lots of tldr here. We are a diverse enough people and you also chimed in with what you thought was best for OP. So what's the issue? Why must we all answer the question how you see fit? Who am I? No one special, just a member of this online community which he posed the question to and I answered it in a way I thought would benefit the OP most. You disagree, that's fine, you don't have to like the way I answered the question, it isn't going to change anything.
 

guachi

Senior member
Nov 16, 2010
761
415
136
Thank you for the charts of CPU scaling in games and all the other comments.

The Anandtech benchmark is easy to find, so that's what I used and the 6600 was only about 7% faster than the 8370 (and presumably the 8350) in games and that didn't seem all that much.

Also, if I revise my build I can remove a few parts and transfer them to another computer and upgrade the motherboard + CPU for AMD or motherboard + CPU + RAM for Intel.

As it turns out for my job (I'm in the military) I'll have all of August off before I switch to sub duty and likely won't have much time to game later in the year. And since upgrading my video card now is a great idea what with new cards from both AMD and nVidia and a month off from work I thought about upgrading the CPU, too.

So I figure I have three alternatives:
- Get an 8350 instead of the 8370 as the net cost is $100 (I'll reuse my old heatsink), motherboard for $90, and reuse my 8gb of RAM for a total cost of $190.

- Get a i5-6600, mobo, 16gb RAM for $420. It's really a good all-around chip.

- do neither and only get a new video card and pair it with my ancient PII x4 965 125w (I think at the time it was as good a deal as you could get as the i5-2500K wouldn't come out for another nine months).

I'll probably get more gaming done in August then the next six months combined, so my time horizon for is really compressed.

On the other hand, it's a great time to get a video card as long as stock comes in before my vacation begins August 2.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,797
11,143
136
No one is asking OP to go off AMD per se, what they do say is that current AMD's lineup has no good offers and that he should wait for zen or get a skylake now, what's wrong with that?

So the first response was someone who, and I quote, said

may I say no?

And you see nothing wrong with it? The guy even tried explaining his use case, backed it up with numbers from his own research (accurate or not, he seemed to believe what it was he was saying anyway), and we still get people trying to sell him on i5s?

Honestly, I think that people should be able to recommend Intel chips to AMD people and AMD chips to Intel people.

I don't, especially when they've already decided what it is that they want and are just trying to narrow down the economics of it. When someone says "hey guys I want to buy x can you give me an estimate of whether or not the price is right and how it'll stack up against y once I build it?" and someone else chimes in with "just buy y" it's like people aren't even paying attention to what the guy asked. It's silly at best, rude at worst.

Lots of tldr here. We are a diverse enough people

My point is that we aren't.

So what's the issue?

Sorry to repeat myself here, but it ain't sinking in. Responses should, ideally, address the question of the poster provided he has any. When someone says "help me with my AMD build" and all the responses are "buy Intel, AMD sux" it's absurd. He tried to explain why he was looking at an FX and people still dismissed the OP like he was a non-entity.

Why must we all answer the question how you see fit?

Who said anything about that? People should stay on-topic. People shouldn't perversely drag topics into an upsell-fest for some other product that isn't even in consideration by the OP regardless of how good it is, especially when there's the threat of one of the Usual Suspects (tm) showing up and trying to start yet another AMD vs Intel fight.
 

DrMrLordX

Lifer
Apr 27, 2000
21,797
11,143
136
So I figure I have three alternatives:
- Get an 8350 instead of the 8370 as the net cost is $100 (I'll reuse my old heatsink), motherboard for $90, and reuse my 8gb of RAM for a total cost of $190.

Question: do you overclock? Also, are you running into problems with RAM right now? Things are getting a little tight for 8 Gb users depending on what you're doing.
 
Aug 11, 2008
10,451
642
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So the first response was someone who, and I quote, said



And you see nothing wrong with it? The guy even tried explaining his use case, backed it up with numbers from his own research (accurate or not, he seemed to believe what it was he was saying anyway), and we still get people trying to sell him on i5s?



I don't, especially when they've already decided what it is that they want and are just trying to narrow down the economics of it. When someone says "hey guys I want to buy x can you give me an estimate of whether or not the price is right and how it'll stack up ?against y once I build it?" and someone else chimes in with "just buy y" it's like people aren't even paying attention to what the guy asked. It's silly at best, rude at worst.



My point is that we aren't.



Sorry to repeat myself here, but it ain't sinking in. Responses should, ideally, address the question of the poster provided he has any. When someone says "help me with my AMD build" and all the responses are "buy Intel, AMD sux" it's absurd. He tried to explain why he was looking at an FX and people still dismissed the OP like he was a non-entity.



Who said anything about that? People should stay on-topic. People shouldn't perversely drag topics into an upsell-fest for some other product that isn't even in consideration by the OP regardless of how good it is, especially when there's the threat of one of the Usual Suspects (tm) showing up and trying to start yet another AMD vs Intel fight.

So basically you are saying the posters in this forum should only recommend the better of two inferior options and ignore the best option, correct? If you went to the doctor and asked whether you should take aspirin or tylenol, but really needed an antibiotic he should still only consider the two choices you proposed?
 

guachi

Senior member
Nov 16, 2010
761
415
136
Question: do you overclock? Also, are you running into problems with RAM right now? Things are getting a little tight for 8 Gb users depending on what you're doing.

I'd have thought so, but no. I'll check memory usage every once in awhile when my browser is open forever and the browser will be well over 1gb so I'll close it and reopen it.

I don't think I've had any game or any other program go over 1.5 gb usage. Video encoding takes up about 500 mb usually and I'm never encoding more than one program at a time. Sometimes I'll end up with a TV show I've recorded that I have to resave if there are some recording issues (which happens more than I'd like) and it can hit over 1gb if the fix takes a long time.

But I'd never game, encode, fix a recording, do photo editing, and web surf with a dozen tabs open at the same time. I don't have that many hands though that might eat up all my RAM.

Oh, I found one website, gamegpu.ru, that tested 12 games in January of this year. I think the games were all recent games. Unfortunately there was no 6600 or 6700. They did test a 4770k ($310), a 4670K ($240 for the 4690),a 2600K, 2500K, an 8350, and a few other processors.

The 8350 was 1.1% faster than a 2500K, which isn't that great really. The 4770 was 32% faster, the 2600K 19% faster, the 4670K 15% faster than the 8350.
 
Mar 10, 2006
11,715
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So basically you are saying the posters in this forum should only recommend the better of two inferior options and ignore the best option, correct? If you went to the doctor and asked whether you should take aspirin or tylenol, but really needed an antibiotic he should still only consider the two choices you proposed?

:thumbsup:
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
15,941
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Problem with AMD in the CPU space right now is little reason to buy one other than hating Intel with a passion. I built a FX6350 machine two years ago, its been a dog from day 1 with a dead Mb. Since then I've had 2 more fail, even an Asus one. Don't say its my power supply I have a antech 620 watt in it. Two month's ago the front USB port died, maybe its the case, maybe its the motherboard. I will always go Intel until AMD gets consistent fabulous reviews.
 

bigboxes

Lifer
Apr 6, 2002
39,124
12,024
146
I don't, especially when they've already decided what it is that they want and are just trying to narrow down the economics of it. When someone says "hey guys I want to buy x can you give me an estimate of whether or not the price is right and how it'll stack up against y once I build it?" and someone else chimes in with "just buy y" it's like people aren't even paying attention to what the guy asked. It's silly at best, rude at worst.

I just don't agree. It's not that some folks aren't being rude. It's that most on here would not recommend the AMD solution at this time. And that could be for a variety of factors. It doesn't make them some rude fanboy who just couldn't be bothered to read someone's post. I could tell someone that they would be just wasting their money to invest in a CPU/APU or platform and I would be doing them a kindness. My job is to advise my clients. I'm not looking to make money off of them by selling them parts. My labor costs the same whether they go with AMD or Intel.

When I built my wife a new computer I went with an AMD APU as it was best for her usage. It basically can do anything she can throw at it for her usage. But her usage is as a content consumer (read: email, web surfing, video streaming, webcam streaming). Nothing too taxing. But for anyone else that actually uses their PC for content creation or gaming how could I recommend AMD (at this time) with a straight face? Don't shoot the messenger.
 

HiroThreading

Member
Apr 25, 2016
173
29
91
Look at the chart above, it is years that i5s cant match the FX, that s reality, far from the urban legends, and still, the FX is using 1600MHz RAM
in thoses tests even if it support 1866, go figure why they used such memory...

You are running the equivalent argument of an anti-vaccination advocate. Just because one kid who received vaccination shots is diagnosed with cancer, does not mean that vaccinations cause cancer.

Just because the AMD FX CPU wins one obscure benchmark from an obscure French website does not mean that AMD FX CPUs are better performing than the Intel CPUs.

Also, for years, a lot of enthusiasts recommended customers to avoid the Intel Pentium 4 chips like the plague. That was a fair recommendation, no? So why then do we now have to bite our tongues and recommend an AMD FX chip to someone just because they have a preference? Come on...

We should have recommended the Nvidia FX series too then? Or how about the GeForce 280 over the Radeon 4890?
 

Abwx

Lifer
Apr 2, 2011
11,166
3,862
136
Just because the AMD FX CPU wins one obscure benchmark from an obscure French website does not mean that AMD FX CPUs are better performing than the Intel CPUs.

It s obvious that you re talking out of urban legends that you learned here and there and didnt even make the effort to look what it is about, at the end it s your argumentation that is obscure..

Here what is averaged in the charts i posted...

3DS MAX V-RAY
3DS MAX Mental Ray
Visual studio
Min GW-G64 GCC
Winrar
7 ZIP
X264 V2453
X265 V1.2+507
Lightroom
Dxo Optics
Stockfish 5
Houdini 4 pro

So that s obscure benchmarks..?..

You can find the detailled scores pages in the link at the bottom of the page that i linked and that i m linking again :

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/940-19/indices-performance-cpu.html
 
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2is

Diamond Member
Apr 8, 2012
4,281
131
106
So the first response was someone who, and I quote, said



And you see nothing wrong with it? The guy even tried explaining his use case, backed it up with numbers from his own research (accurate or not, he seemed to believe what it was he was saying anyway), and we still get people trying to sell him on i5s?



I don't, especially when they've already decided what it is that they want and are just trying to narrow down the economics of it. When someone says "hey guys I want to buy x can you give me an estimate of whether or not the price is right and how it'll stack up against y once I build it?" and someone else chimes in with "just buy y" it's like people aren't even paying attention to what the guy asked. It's silly at best, rude at worst.



My point is that we aren't.



Sorry to repeat myself here, but it ain't sinking in. Responses should, ideally, address the question of the poster provided he has any. When someone says "help me with my AMD build" and all the responses are "buy Intel, AMD sux" it's absurd. He tried to explain why he was looking at an FX and people still dismissed the OP like he was a non-entity.



Who said anything about that? People should stay on-topic. People shouldn't perversely drag topics into an upsell-fest for some other product that isn't even in consideration by the OP regardless of how good it is, especially when there's the threat of one of the Usual Suspects (tm) showing up and trying to start yet another AMD vs Intel fight.

I disagree. Obviously most others here do too. If everyone is recommending not to do what he is thinking about doing, there's a good reason for it. I think what you're suggesting is a much bigger disservice then the info OP received. Obviously no one is going to convince anyone else which is the better method. I will continue to give the advise I feel is most beneficial, even if it's not *exactly* what the OP asked unless stated that they are under any conditions, interested in any other product besides the ones they are asking about.

I guess what I'm saying is, you do you, and let everyone else do what they feel is best, because that's what's going to end up happening anyway.
 

4ghz

Member
Sep 11, 2010
165
1
81
The 8350 was 1.1% faster than a 2500K, which isn't that great really. The 4770 was 32% faster, the 2600K 19% faster, the 4670K 15% faster than the 8350.

Yep, when you consider its almost a given that an i5 2500k will overclock 25-30% its not pretty. I couldn't in good faith recommend buying a new AMD system right now. Especially if you kept your previous system for 6 years. The performance is uneven and they use about 50% more power when idle and around 100% more under load when compared to an Intel i5. I would just suck it up with your old system and wait for Zen or go Intel. If you hate the idea of giving Intel any of your money then look into getting a used board and chip. You would at least have something modern while you wait and see how Zen pans out.
 

Erenhardt

Diamond Member
Dec 1, 2012
3,251
105
101
PCLOL as a beacon of performance metrics

There is cheerypicking review graphs, and there is quoting PClab fantasy drawings.
 
Reactions: Grazick

maddogmcgee

Senior member
Apr 20, 2015
385
310
136
So the first response was someone who, and I quote, said



And you see nothing wrong with it? The guy even tried explaining his use case, backed it up with numbers from his own research (accurate or not, he seemed to believe what it was he was saying anyway), and we still get people trying to sell him on i5s?



I don't, especially when they've already decided what it is that they want and are just trying to narrow down the economics of it. When someone says "hey guys I want to buy x can you give me an estimate of whether or not the price is right and how it'll stack up against y once I build it?" and someone else chimes in with "just buy y" it's like people aren't even paying attention to what the guy asked. It's silly at best, rude at worst.



My point is that we aren't.



Sorry to repeat myself here, but it ain't sinking in. Responses should, ideally, address the question of the poster provided he has any. When someone says "help me with my AMD build" and all the responses are "buy Intel, AMD sux" it's absurd. He tried to explain why he was looking at an FX and people still dismissed the OP like he was a non-entity.



Who said anything about that? People should stay on-topic. People shouldn't perversely drag topics into an upsell-fest for some other product that isn't even in consideration by the OP regardless of how good it is, especially when there's the threat of one of the Usual Suspects (tm) showing up and trying to start yet another AMD vs Intel fight.

Thing is though, this is not like AMD vs NVIDIA in the GPU space, where reasonable arguments can be made for either side. Free sync vs g-sync monitors, power usage vs initial cost, favorite type of game etc. I can totally see how someone who wants an AMD card would be pissed if everyone said, "lol, just buy a 1070."

In the CPU space, it's almost impossible to recommend a high end AMD CPU as being worth the money at the moment. Better to be honest and reduce the chance of the guy wasting his money, especially if he has limited funds for his computer expenditure.
 

LTC8K6

Lifer
Mar 10, 2004
28,520
1,575
126
Not sure why anyone would buy a new socket AM3 system at this point.

The only acceptable reason is the total inability to afford something newer.
 

Loser Gamer

Member
May 5, 2014
145
7
46
Absolutely wait until ZEN is released then spend the money. It's really just right around the corner. Electric isn't cheap anymore and the FX line sure does like to eat it. That is the reason I never bought one - electric usage, you have to crank it to get it moving too.
 

Sheep221

Golden Member
Oct 28, 2012
1,843
27
81
Not sure why anyone would buy a new socket AM3 system at this point.

The only acceptable reason is the total inability to afford something newer.
The problem is, there are other options, far faster and far cheaper.
 

Phynaz

Lifer
Mar 13, 2006
10,140
819
126
3DS MAX V-RAY
3DS MAX Mental Ray
Visual studio
Min GW-G64 GCC
Winrar
7 ZIP
X264 V2453
X265 V1.2+507
Lightroom
Dxo Optics
Stockfish 5
Houdini 4 pro

So that s obscure benchmarks..?..

Yes.

Which of the bolded products do you use?
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,699
15,941
136
I'll summarize my earlier post. Right now the benefit AMD has is if you really, really, really hate Intel this is your option.
 
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