What is wrong with building an SLI sytem?

[BOLt]

The single card will beat an SLI setup at resolutions where performance is CPU limited, because of the tiny amount of overhead. Look at the 1600x1200 resolutions and you start to see pretty significant differences. The benchmarked games are also only the very first generation examples of these engines which have a lot of headroom technically speaking. If they made more use of the pixel/vertex shaders you would see even more of a difference at lower resolutions. This is why I personally find use in an SLI setup, because I want to be designing at the next level of detail.

Exactly.

Also, I still think that although the initial premium you pay on the mobo negates the savings on the video cards themselves, it is a one-time extra cost that can save money with later upgrades. When the next series of video cards is released that is significantly faster than a single 6800GT, instead of paying a premium on that card I can get a second GT for much cheaper and still have a competitive setup.

You're on a roll!

I would have a harder time justifying the investment if it were strictly a gaming machine, but as it was pointed out that is hardly the concern of any enthusiast regardless of field.

Err. There are very few instances in all of computing that require nearly the raw amount of system power as gaming. Sure, you've got CAD, video editing, and the like, but aside from that small sector of the population, you've got the rest of a significant percentage of the population that is interested in gaming. Kids are getting involved with computer games faster and faster and they are playing high-end games earlier and earlier (see the countless reports on 20/20, Dateline, and such TV journalism). One could also argue that consoles count as part of the PC gaming sector, as they have all the components of a PC albeit in a small factor form and more dumbarse-friendly. Gaming is a major drive of advancements in computers. Not to say that high-end computing is exclusively for gaming, but don't discredit games' contributions to the evolution of computers.

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: BOLt

The single card will beat an SLI setup at resolutions where performance is CPU limited, because of the tiny amount of overhead. Look at the 1600x1200 resolutions and you start to see pretty significant differences. The benchmarked games are also only the very first generation examples of these engines which have a lot of headroom technically speaking. If they made more use of the pixel/vertex shaders you would see even more of a difference at lower resolutions. This is why I personally find use in an SLI setup, because I want to be designing at the next level of detail.

Exactly.

Also, I still think that although the initial premium you pay on the mobo negates the savings on the video cards themselves, it is a one-time extra cost that can save money with later upgrades. When the next series of video cards is released that is significantly faster than a single 6800GT, instead of paying a premium on that card I can get a second GT for much cheaper and still have a competitive setup.

You're on a roll!

I would have a harder time justifying the investment if it were strictly a gaming machine, but as it was pointed out that is hardly the concern of any enthusiast regardless of field.

Err. There are very few instances in all of computing that require nearly the raw amount of system power as gaming. Sure, you've got CAD, video editing, and the like, but aside from that small sector of the population, you've got the rest of a significant percentage of the population that is interested in gaming. Kids are getting involved with computer games faster and faster and they are playing high-end games earlier and earlier (see the countless reports on 20/20, Dateline, and such TV journalism). One could also argue that consoles count as part of the PC gaming sector, as they have all the components of a PC albeit in a small factor form and more dumbarse-friendly. Gaming is a major drive of advancements in computers. Not to say that high-end computing is exclusively for gaming, but don't discredit games' contributions to the evolution of computers.

No doubt gaming has had a huge impact on computer technology. Just think of all the gaming benchmarks out there right now and all the computer equipment that is tested with these benchmarks.
Just think from video cards to cpus to hard drives to ram to motherboards are are rated with these benchmarks. Manufacturers use these gaming benchmarks to make improvements to there existing products and also to come up with new products.

 

[jlambvo]

Not to say that high-end computing is exclusively for gaming, but don't discredit games' contributions to the evolution of computers

Yeep, I didn't mean that at all. What I was trying to say is that if I were only going to be *playing* the current round of games, SLI can be considered overkill, since even with the most demanding games there isn't much of a difference until you try to play at HD resolutions (even then a single card is plenty playable). I think its worth noting that benchmarks such as 3dMark05 are usually quite ahead of commercial games in terms of applying potential technologies. 3dMark05 will show huge SLI gains, but there won't be many commericial games that tax the system like that for a while, except perhaps from the Mod communities which does a lot to push engines to their maximum. So I think its rational to get an SLI setup if you are a hardware enthusiast who will also be participating in the creation and use of game mods that take advantage of the hardware.

 

[frankierx]

typo

 

[frankierx]

Originally posted by: frankierx

Originally posted by: figfiddle
Are all computer geeks poor? I have never heard so many people complain about money. Computers are not exactly the most expensive hobby out there. I know people who will spend $5k to upgrade a turbo in their car or fishermen that spend $3k-$5k per season on equipment, boat fuel, and travel. Or even skiers that spend $1k on equipment then $50-$150 per week to go skiing.

We are talking about spending a couple of grand every 4-5 years for a new rig and maybe $400-$500 a year thereafter for upgrades. Not really a bank breaker guys!

There is also a difference between the enthusiast and the person that has a need. I may be the guy who likes investing in cutting edge technology but have no real need for it. Meaning I could conduct business with much less on a daily basis. Or I could be the person that has a real need for a basic computer in order to make it through college for example.

I am an enthusiast. I get a thrill out of having the latest and greatest and upgading it on a regular basis. I am by no means wealthy but I like spending money on things I enjoy.

same here, except i don't spend a couple of grand on a new system. I get the bare minimum and oc. I spend at most 400usd.

 

[jvarszegi]

Originally posted by: jlambvo

Not to say that high-end computing is exclusively for gaming, but don't discredit games' contributions to the evolution of computers

Yeep, I didn't mean that at all. What I was trying to say is that if I were only going to be *playing* the current round of games, SLI can be considered overkill, since even with the most demanding games there isn't much of a difference until you try to play at HD resolutions (even then a single card is plenty playable). I think its worth noting that benchmarks such as 3dMark05 are usually quite ahead of commercial games in terms of applying potential technologies. 3dMark05 will show huge SLI gains, but there won't be many commericial games that tax the system like that for a while, except perhaps from the Mod communities which does a lot to push engines to their maximum. So I think its rational to get an SLI setup if you are a hardware enthusiast who will also be participating in the creation and use of game mods that take advantage of the hardware.

I disagree. We are at the beginning of a new era of multi-GPU setups (yes, I know about the old Voodoo rigs et al.). First, imagine that SLI was available a year ago, with support for similar tech from multiple vendors. Imagine a person bought a machine with what was then a higher-end card (here I'm out of my depth: a Radeon 9800???). Now their card is showing its age and not keeping up on the latest games, although the rest of their system is fine. Now they can run out on eBay or somewhere else and pick up another cheap 9800, and fix their performance problem without having to spend $700 on an X850 just so they feel it will last for a while.

I don't see the value of SLI as enabling better current bragging rights, but as enabling longer useful life for components. Everyone who says it's stupid and useless never gives support for their argument; it seems plausible to me that you could save money with SLI or a like technology. It will let you stay more current in terms of graphics-card performance than spending the same rolling amount on supercards, half as often. SLI is really more for the budget-minded than absolute performance freaks.

The thing is, it should work at all performance levels! Imagine you want the best single-card performance now, so you get an X850 successor in two months with ATI's counterpart to SLI. You've got screaming performance, and a year from now a second X850 will let your rig trounce the current single-card monster once again, and here's the point: the new card is cheaper than the first X850 by far. That second purchase is always cheaper than getting the latest and greatest card, and will most likely outperform it in most cases.

 

[The Sauce]

Maybe I'm cheap. I love computers and building and upgrading. It's my #1 hobby. But I will not upgrade at all until I can get exactly the right parts at exactly the right times and prices to overclock the most for the least money and last the longest before the next upgrade. That's all part of the fun for me. I have the money to buy top of the line everything but I never will. That would not be fun. So in my mind the SLI option fits in perfectly. Get a bargain overclocker card now and add another a year later at half price...and still have a top of the line system. Makes sense to me as long as the technology works.

 

[rpmcrash]

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Maybe I'm cheap. I love computers and building and upgrading. It's my #1 hobby. But I will not upgrade at all until I can get exactly the right parts at exactly the right times and prices to overclock the most for the least money and last the longest before the next upgrade. That's all part of the fun for me. I have the money to buy top of the line everything but I never will. That would not be fun. So in my mind the SLI option fits in perfectly. Get a bargain overclocker card now and add another a year later at half price...and still have a top of the line system. Makes sense to me as long as the technology works.

most of us know thier will be a DDR2 SLI board comming soon. i will just get a new motherboard
swap out mem. but runnig two 6800ut now seems to be a waste of money for now thier are no games
out yet that will really challenges sli. REAL WORLD. And i like building value rigs that will kicka$$ on
the top of the line rigs.Im not poor just a little cheap.

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: rpmcrash

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Maybe I'm cheap. I love computers and building and upgrading. It's my #1 hobby. But I will not upgrade at all until I can get exactly the right parts at exactly the right times and prices to overclock the most for the least money and last the longest before the next upgrade. That's all part of the fun for me. I have the money to buy top of the line everything but I never will. That would not be fun. So in my mind the SLI option fits in perfectly. Get a bargain overclocker card now and add another a year later at half price...and still have a top of the line system. Makes sense to me as long as the technology works.

most of us know thier will be a DDR2 SLI board comming soon. i will just get a new motherboard
swap out mem. but runnig two 6800ut now seems to be a waste of money for now thier are no games
out yet that will really challenges sli. REAL WORLD. And i like building value rigs that will kicka$$ on
the top of the line rigs.Im not poor just a little cheap.

Yeah and right about at that time there will be some other new technology right around the corner. So where do you jump in. With your philosopy you will be waiting and waiting and waiting. You will be the john Kerry of the computer world. I'm going to jump in now... no..hold on..I meant now.. no.. etc.
You get the point.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: figfiddle
Are all computer geeks poor? I have never heard so many people complain about money. Computers are not exactly the most expensive hobby out there. I know people who will spend $5k to upgrade a turbo in their car or fishermen that spend $3k-$5k per season on equipment, boat fuel, and travel. Or even skiers that spend $1k on equipment then $50-$150 per week to go skiing.

We are talking about spending a couple of grand every 4-5 years for a new rig and maybe $400-$500 a year thereafter for upgrades. Not really a bank breaker guys!

There is also a difference between the enthusiast and the person that has a need. I may be the guy who likes investing in cutting edge technology but have no real need for it. Meaning I could conduct business with much less on a daily basis. Or I could be the person that has a real need for a basic computer in order to make it through college for example.

I am an enthusiast. I get a thrill out of having the latest and greatest and upgading it on a regular basis. I am by no means wealthy but I like spending money on things I enjoy.

You'd think from reading ALL the computer related threads here (which is 98% of Anandtech's forums), that we just have a bunch of poor motherfvckers here. That's why you have to take the raw data and make the decision for YOURSELF. Otherwise, most of these poor geeks will just point you in the direction of what THEY would build, not what YOU want to build. It gets REAL annoying.

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: JackBurton

Originally posted by: figfiddle
Are all computer geeks poor? I have never heard so many people complain about money. Computers are not exactly the most expensive hobby out there. I know people who will spend $5k to upgrade a turbo in their car or fishermen that spend $3k-$5k per season on equipment, boat fuel, and travel. Or even skiers that spend $1k on equipment then $50-$150 per week to go skiing.

We are talking about spending a couple of grand every 4-5 years for a new rig and maybe $400-$500 a year thereafter for upgrades. Not really a bank breaker guys!

There is also a difference between the enthusiast and the person that has a need. I may be the guy who likes investing in cutting edge technology but have no real need for it. Meaning I could conduct business with much less on a daily basis. Or I could be the person that has a real need for a basic computer in order to make it through college for example.

I am an enthusiast. I get a thrill out of having the latest and greatest and upgading it on a regular basis. I am by no means wealthy but I like spending money on things I enjoy.

You'd think from reading ALL the computer related threads here (which is 98% of Anandtech's forums), that we just have a bunch of poor motherfvcker here. That's why you have to take the raw data and make the decision for YOURSELF. Otherwise, most of these poor geeks will just point you in the direction of what THEY would build, not what YOU want to build. It gets REAL annoying.

JackBurton is a little harsh but I agree with him in principle. Just because you have to build a $700 computer doesn't mean I'm being wasteful or extravagent if I want to build a $2k system.

 

[The Sauce]

Originally posted by: figfiddle

Originally posted by: rpmcrash

Originally posted by: Snatchface
Maybe I'm cheap. I love computers and building and upgrading. It's my #1 hobby. But I will not upgrade at all until I can get exactly the right parts at exactly the right times and prices to overclock the most for the least money and last the longest before the next upgrade. That's all part of the fun for me. I have the money to buy top of the line everything but I never will. That would not be fun. So in my mind the SLI option fits in perfectly. Get a bargain overclocker card now and add another a year later at half price...and still have a top of the line system. Makes sense to me as long as the technology works.

most of us know thier will be a DDR2 SLI board comming soon. i will just get a new motherboard
swap out mem. but runnig two 6800ut now seems to be a waste of money for now thier are no games
out yet that will really challenges sli. REAL WORLD. And i like building value rigs that will kicka$$ on
the top of the line rigs.Im not poor just a little cheap.

Yeah and right about at that time there will be some other new technology right around the corner. So where do you jump in. With your philosopy you will be waiting and waiting and waiting. You will be the john Kerry of the computer world. I'm going to jump in now... no..hold on..I meant now.. no.. etc.
You get the point.

Sometimes you find just that perfect upgrading moment. THe last time I hit it was when the NF2 mobos were maturing and the mobile Athlon 2400/2500's were hitting the shelves for $65 and overclocking like mad. I snagged a top of the line system and overclocked it like a biyatch for <$200. Got a great deal on a refurb 9800 Pro for $250. There was nothing new just about to come out - we were at least a year away from affordable NF3/A64 systems and 18 months from new GPU cores. I am still running that system now and it still kicks ass 2 years later. It could happen again.

 

[anox3]

Most if not all of the negative comments you read are from people who can not afford the computer or parts. Buy what you can afford and will make you happpy. Screw everybody else.

 

[rpmcrash]

I finshed building a AN8 SLI with a 3800+ nc for mem im got 2x512 OCZ ddr 4000 with 2 XFX 6800gt
with 2 seagate cheetahs 300gb scsi with hi end scsi card. what are you building. bench marks start tomorrow and running stable in
prime 95 27hours now. I just dont understand why you guys would drag the guys in the forums down by calling them poor.
and this rig is fast. do your own home work build your own. better still buy a AW rig .Oh and there is nothing wrong with building a sli board
I WAS RUB THE WRONG WAY BY SOME OF THE THREADS and if you post a problem your on your own in my book.the asus is one goofy board.
good luck and have a HAPPY NEW YEAR.

 

[shinotenshi]

I am in the middle of building mine. waiting for the dfi mb. so far i have a silverstone temjin 6. just finished painting my drives silver, they came out great with the vinyl dye. Got a 3500 and 2 6800gt's. i'm using one 73gb 10k quantum atlas 4 and a 73gb 10k seagate cheetah. i thought about getting the asus, but i want a uv motherboard. I have to say doing the mods yourself is fun, seaving the fans connects is next.

 

[rpmcrash]

THATS what makes it yours. I went with water cooling with two gpu blocks one cpu block but i think i will get a little bigger pump.
take your time and choose your mother board. you will be happier. not the first thing out like i did.

 

[figfiddle]

Man rpmcrash you have a screaming system at your hands.

Thats why I posted this topic because I feel that there are many others who share the same ideas as I do when it comes to spending money on technology.

 

[rpmcrash]

im going to use it for auto cad only the an8 realy isnt a good board it OC like sh!t and like i implyed some times you get burned.
i odered a vnf4 for my gaming all you realy need is one 6800 ut pci-e for now and a 3000+nc and some DDR 3200 MUSHKIN 2x512
and a scsi drive then oc the hell out of it. then you will have something. the AN8 will be a work rig . I will bench mark both rigs .
then i will post them in cpu and processors. I think you will be in for a shock performance wise. I was!!!!! for the AN8.

 

[figfiddle]

Originally posted by: rpmcrash
im going to use it for auto cad only the an8 realy isnt a good board it OC like sh!t and like i implyed some times you get burned.
i odered a vnf4 for my gaming all you realy need is one 6800 ut pci-e for now and a 3000+nc and some DDR 3200 MUSHKIN 2x512
and a scsi drive then oc the hell out of it. then you will have something. the AN8 will be a work rig . I will bench mark both rigs .
then i will post them in cpu and processors. I think you will be in for a shock performance wise. I was!!!!! for the AN8.

I haven't heard that the A8N doesn't OC well. Interesting. Hmm.

 

[jlambvo]

Originally posted by: jvarszegi

Originally posted by: jlambvo

Not to say that high-end computing is exclusively for gaming, but don't discredit games' contributions to the evolution of computers

Yeep, I didn't mean that at all. What I was trying to say is that if I were only going to be *playing* the current round of games, SLI can be considered overkill, since even with the most demanding games there isn't much of a difference until you try to play at HD resolutions (even then a single card is plenty playable). I think its worth noting that benchmarks such as 3dMark05 are usually quite ahead of commercial games in terms of applying potential technologies. 3dMark05 will show huge SLI gains, but there won't be many commericial games that tax the system like that for a while, except perhaps from the Mod communities which does a lot to push engines to their maximum. So I think its rational to get an SLI setup if you are a hardware enthusiast who will also be participating in the creation and use of game mods that take advantage of the hardware.

I disagree. We are at the beginning of a new era of multi-GPU setups (yes, I know about the old Voodoo rigs et al.). First, imagine that SLI was available a year ago, with support for similar tech from multiple vendors. Imagine a person bought a machine with what was then a higher-end card (here I'm out of my depth: a Radeon 9800???). Now their card is showing its age and not keeping up on the latest games, although the rest of their system is fine. Now they can run out on eBay or somewhere else and pick up another cheap 9800, and fix their performance problem without having to spend $700 on an X850 just so they feel it will last for a while....SLI is really more for the budget-minded than absolute performance freaks.[/i]

Erm... what we disagreeing on? I stated this in my previous post:

Also, I still think that although the initial premium you pay on the mobo negates the savings on the video cards themselves, it is a one-time extra cost that can save money with later upgrades. When the next series of video cards is released that is significantly faster than a single 6800GT, instead of paying a premium on that card I can get a second GT for much cheaper and still have a competitive setup.

They are not mutually exclusive. In this case you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[jvarszegi]

Sorry, I must've forgotten about the earlier post when I wrote that. So it looks like we are in agreement! There's a reason ATI's coming out with something similar-- it just makes sense. If you gotta have the absolute best performance, get SLI; if you need great performance at a great price, get SLI. The only market where a dual-card feature might be inappropriate is the extremely low end.

 

[Tiamat]

With an SLI setup, not only do you have to spend the 800-1200$ for the GPU, and extra $ for other necessary things like a very reliable PSU, I believe the the CPU may still become the bottleneck rendering some of the latent benefits of SLI, well latent. With 2 very warm to hot GPUs in your case, you have to worry about proper ventilation. Perhaps water cooling is the only good way to cool an overclocked FX series and 2 Ultras for example. Other than that, that is a huge amount of heat you dump into your case and expect your exhaust fans to handle properly. Not very easy.

But, i come from the viewpoint that for gaming, im too busy shooting and killing to realize the beauty of 4xAA and 16xAF at 1600x1200. I draw the quality line at 1600x1200 high textures but no AA or AF and thus, can justify that I really dont need SLI. If you are the type of person that a slight alaising just tears your eyes apart, then perhaps you can justify SLI in order for you to obtain quality gaming with no eye sores.

 

[jvarszegi]

Originally posted by: Tiamat
With an SLI setup, not only do you have to spend the 800-1200$ for the GPU, and extra $ for other necessary things like a very reliable PSU, I believe the the CPU may still become the bottleneck rendering some of the latent benefits of SLI, well latent. With 2 very warm to hot GPUs in your case, you have to worry about proper ventilation. Perhaps water cooling is the only good way to cool an overclocked FX series and 2 Ultras for example. Other than that, that is a huge amount of heat you dump into your case and expect your exhaust fans to handle properly. Not very easy.

But, i come from the viewpoint that for gaming, im too busy shooting and killing to realize the beauty of 4xAA and 16xAF at 1600x1200. I draw the quality line at 1600x1200 high textures but no AA or AF and thus, can justify that I really dont need SLI. If you are the type of person that a slight alaising just tears your eyes apart, then perhaps you can justify SLI in order for you to obtain quality gaming with no eye sores.

I mostly agree with you. I run UXGA with no AA and no AF. I view SLI not as enabling those at high res, but enabling better performance in general. Some future games will probably come along that tax a single 6800GT, for instance, at UXGA (or higher resolution) at high quality with no AA and no AF. It'd be nice at that point to be able to add a second 6800GT for cheap at that point, just to render extra pixels.

Maybe, around the same time, you'd pick up a mid-to-high-end processor and sell your old one... We're supposed to see dual-core chips sometime in the next 18 months.

P.S. For my new computer, I mostly wanted to make sure that most of the components would last a while. I bought an SLI motherboard not knowing how useful I'll find it in the future, just in case. If you're curious, I'm starting out with a single 6600GT. I expect that to be fine for me for a while, then probably in a year I'll sell it and get a single higher-end card; I probably won't use two 6600GTs in SLI. I'm really taking the long view with this motherboard, and I try never to buy more than I really use. There also weren't any 6800GTs available for PCIe at the time I needed to purchase a motherboard.

 

[doublejbass]

Originally posted by: figfiddle

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: figfiddle
I make a comfortable living and once again I like spending money on things I enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I'm all for people buying what they want. I'm a capitalist.

I'm just saying that's a lot of money to a lot of people here.

I'm with you brother. I understand that. My only beef is that these people are criticizing these new technologies because they can't afford to buy them. They also put us down for choosing to buy them.

There are plenty of people who can afford to buy them but consider them a waste of money. To me, your rationalization is worth as much as people who burn money putting a turbo into their car, or anything else. Your hobby is wasting money. But hey, if it keeps you satiated. People like me don't badmouth certain things because they can't afford it (because I definitely can), they badmouth it because it's a ripoff. People like YOU, however, are the reason it's a ripoff, because your hunger to have the greatest, no matter what the cost, is what leads the manufacturers to mark the top card up as far as they do. As an investment, going high-end "to have the high-end" is totally foolish when you consider the extremely steep depreciation of the technology in question.

So no, there's nothing different between needing to have the best video card to have the best video card and needing to have a hummer to have the biggest car on the road. But don't confuse getting ripped off because of your maniacal desire to constantly be at the front of the pack and being an enthusiast. Nowhere in the definition of an enthusiast, the kind of person who does it for the love of it, does being a fool with your money enter into the "level of enthusiasm." You may be an enthusiast, but you're a stupid enthusiast.

 

[JackBurton]

Originally posted by: doublejbass

Originally posted by: figfiddle

Originally posted by: Chaotic42

Originally posted by: figfiddle
I make a comfortable living and once again I like spending money on things I enjoy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that. I'm all for people buying what they want. I'm a capitalist.

I'm just saying that's a lot of money to a lot of people here.

I'm with you brother. I understand that. My only beef is that these people are criticizing these new technologies because they can't afford to buy them. They also put us down for choosing to buy them.

There are plenty of people who can afford to buy them but consider them a waste of money. To me, your rationalization is worth as much as people who burn money putting a turbo into their car, or anything else. Your hobby is wasting money. But hey, if it keeps you satiated. People like me don't badmouth certain things because they can't afford it (because I definitely can), they badmouth it because it's a ripoff. People like YOU, however, are the reason it's a ripoff, because your hunger to have the greatest, no matter what the cost, is what leads the manufacturers to mark the top card up as far as they do. As an investment, going high-end "to have the high-end" is totally foolish when you consider the extremely steep depreciation of the technology in question.

So no, there's nothing different between needing to have the best video card to have the best video card and needing to have a hummer to have the biggest car on the road. But don't confuse getting ripped off because of your maniacal desire to constantly be at the front of the pack and being an enthusiast. Nowhere in the definition of an enthusiast, the kind of person who does it for the love of it, does being a fool with your money enter into the "level of enthusiasm." You may be an enthusiast, but you're a stupid enthusiast.

Just because you can buy it, doesn't mean you can afford it. And the ONLY person I find to be stupid in this thread is YOU.