WHat is wrong with creative ?

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: sandorski
I have long hated CL, but when I decided to upgrade my Aureal SQ2500(wanted WinXP and Klipsch 5.1s) I settled for an Audigy Gamer. I like the sound quality, but this Audigy has been the most flakey part of my system. A couple times I've upgraded only to lose sound. Many hours have been spent trying to get the Audigy working again, trying this driver or that driver. Everything else works fine, but this Audigy has been a PITA on numerous occassions.

If I remember right, I went from an SQ2500 (excellent card) to a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. Not quite as excellent (the equalizer needed work), but it still did a fine job. Now that I've got an nForce2 board with the MCP-T southbridge, I'm using that, and I'm quite happy with it.

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: Thor_Sevan
Oh my god ! I can't beleive it worked !
I installed playcenter (latest) and I saw that the CMSS option was enabled by default... errr !
Now the sound is just fine.

Ouf, still can't beleive it took that much time to figure out THAT was the cause. I am sorry for all the other people out there that have no clue and get no bass and midrange with latest drivers... heh... but then again... they "might" use playcenter so...

Now that it is fixed, I want to say a big THANK YOU too all of you !

P.S.: I don't have the 3D option to remove CMSS in my surround mixer's EAX tab. I HAVE to use playcenter...

Thor_Sevan.

thor, i instaled the latest playcenter, i have audigy1, but i dont' see anything about CMSS in the options menu. where do i find this option>???

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: Jeff H
Lonyo, I found the CMSS option by going into the surround mixer and clicking on the EAX Console button. From there go to the CMSS 3D tab and take the checkmark out of the Enable CMSS 3D box.

Don't have that either. Running an A1.

 

[CZroe]

Anyone think they change settings like this preemptively before the release of their next card? I mean, it's probably the only way to get people to swear that the new one sounds better

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: CZroe
Anyone think they change settings like this preemptively before the release of their next card? I mean, it's probably the only way to get people to swear that the new one sounds better

that my theory also1!!!!!

a new card comes out. with their best drivers. sounds awesome, next driver release sound quality goes down a little, but not too many people notice. next driver release, same thing, not many people notice. this happens 1-2 more times. a new card comes out that is basically the same card as before, but has a trully updated driver that sounds slightly better than the original driver.

now, compare this new card and new driver, with old card, and its night and day difference. creative is smart, they lowered quality just enough each new driver release that people wouldn't notice but will notice a big jump from rebranded card with a driver that actually improves soudn alittle

just an opinoin, quite funny if creative actually did this. heheheheh

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
It would be nice if nVidia got into the market and really gave Creative some competition.

That's the thing, Nvidia is in some of the audio market, but they still aren't competition for Creative; CL still produces the best sound cards for gaming, as their cards basically always sound correct in a game(vs. the wierd things the nForce does at times).

 

[Nebor]

Alright guys... What do you have against CMSS? I went through all the trouble of updating my Audigy 2 drivers, and installing all the software and whatnot... So I get into the EAX console, and start messing with CMSS while listening to a looping 10 second clip from a song. I really like the CMSS, it makes me feel like the music is all around me since it comes out of all my speakers.

What's the problem? I didn't notice any loss of bass either.

 

[Nebor]

Alright, I've come up with a test for you guys who hate CMSS. Go into the CMSS 3d console... Shift the stereo focus to 100% (all the way to the front) now start listening to your chosen music file and switch back and forth between CMSS on in stereo mode, and no CMSS at all (real stereo mode.)

I can't tell ANY difference at all. But I really like getting that sound out of all my speakers, so CMSS is great.

 

[kingmike]

If I turn cmss off I lose all sound from my 2 rear speakers If anyone knows of a way to turn cmss off and keep 4 channel support working, LMK

 

[Thor_Sevan]

jjyiz28, you can change CMSS here :
cmss

Sincerly, CMSS can sometimes create an interresting effect but for most of the songs it kills the BASS and MIDRANGES so you loose the punch of these musics. Thing is, it ALSO affects games... I don't like it. I don't like it even more because it was ON by default without asking me anything.

Thor_Sevan.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: kingmike
If I turn cmss off I lose all sound from my 2 rear speakers If anyone knows of a way to turn cmss off and keep 4 channel support working, LMK

That's what CMSS DOES. And you don't lose all sound, you just lose sound that isn't multichannel to begin with. If you play a multichannel game, or watch a DVD, or listen to an enhanced CD or DVD audio, you will get multiple channel output.

CDs are stereo sound. CMSS upmixes that sound into multiple channels. Personally, I see no reason not to use it.

 

[Thor_Sevan]

that my theory also1!!!!!

a new card comes out. with their best drivers. sounds awesome, next driver release sound quality goes down a little, but not too many people notice. next driver release, same thing, not many people notice. this happens 1-2 more times. a new card comes out that is basically the same card as before, but has a trully updated driver that sounds slightly better than the original driver.

now, compare this new card and new driver, with old card, and its night and day difference. creative is smart, they lowered quality just enough each new driver release that people wouldn't notice but will notice a big jump from rebranded card with a driver that actually improves soudn alittle

just an opinoin, quite funny if creative actually did this. heheheheh

Hah ! That passed through my mind too ...
Glad it works now.

Thor_Sevan.

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: Thor_Sevan
jjyiz28, you can change CMSS here :
cmss

Sincerly, CMSS can sometimes create an interresting effect but for most of the songs it kills the BASS and MIDRANGES so you loose the punch of these musics. Thing is, it ALSO affects games... I don't like it. I don't like it even more because it was ON by default without asking me anything.

Thor_Sevan.

much thanks my broohah!!!

funny thing is, cmss on or off, doesn't make my sound any different.. go figure. is it cuz i only have a 2.1 speaker setup??

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: jjyiz28

Originally posted by: Thor_Sevan
jjyiz28, you can change CMSS here :
cmss

Sincerly, CMSS can sometimes create an interresting effect but for most of the songs it kills the BASS and MIDRANGES so you loose the punch of these musics. Thing is, it ALSO affects games... I don't like it. I don't like it even more because it was ON by default without asking me anything.

Thor_Sevan.

much thanks my broohah!!!

funny thing is, cmss on or off, doesn't make my sound any different.. go figure. is it cuz i only have a 2.1 speaker setup??

Refer to my earlier posts... Also, since you have a stereo setup, CMSS doesn't come into play. Most music will be stereo format to begin with, so CMSS won't need to upmix it to match your speaker system.

Also, to Thor, CMSS won't effect your games if your games are set up to run EAX multichannel. Just make sure that option is enabled in game, and CMSS won't interfere.

 

[AndyHui]

Nebor, you have an Audigy 2. The A2 uses CMSS2, which is VERY different to CMSS1 on the Audigy 1.

CMSS2 sounds good, CMSS1 DOES NOT.

 

[Thor_Sevan]

jjyiz28, try playing some music that has deep bass, strong midrange and some hights.
For exemple, I could propose the MAXPAYNE intro music u can get on MaxPayne 2 or www.maxpayne2.com.

When CMSS enabled, the deep heartbeat sound (mostly at the begenning at 34 seconds ) should disappear at 90 % I can say.
If you don't hear any difference, it could be that CMSS needs 4.1 setup to work and is disabled by default if u have 2.1 or stereo selected.

 

[Thor_Sevan]

Woups, double post.

Thor_Sevan

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: AndyHui
Nebor, you have an Audigy 2. The A2 uses CMSS2, which is VERY different to CMSS1 on the Audigy 1.

CMSS2 sounds good, CMSS1 DOES NOT.

Audigy 2 can switch between CMSS1 and CMSS2 according to the EAX control panel, and default is CMSS1. My testing was done w/ CMSS1, and I concluded that it sounds just fine.

 

[Nebor]

I just made some lossless WMA rips from some CDs to do some more testing. I compared no CMSS vs. CMSS vs. CMSS2. My conclusion :Q CMSS2 > no CMSS > CMSS.

This high quality music really let me tell the difference between no CMSS and CMSS. You really do lose a lot of clarity when enabling CMSS. But when you enable CMSS 2, I was just blown away, it replicates the amazing clarity and punch to all my speakers.

Guess you guys were right.

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I just made some lossless WMA rips from some CDs to do some more testing. I compared no CMSS vs. CMSS vs. CMSS2. My conclusion :Q CMSS2 > no CMSS > CMSS.

This high quality music really let me tell the difference between no CMSS and CMSS. You really do lose a lot of clarity when enabling CMSS. But when you enable CMSS 2, I was just blown away, it replicates the amazing clarity and punch to all my speakers.

Guess you guys were right.

psshh.... i tolda you noob!!!

jk, homeboy. hehehhe

 

[Nebor]

I now pity the audigy 1 owners... And contemplate getting an Audigy 2 ZS, wondering what I might be missing.

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: Nebor
I now pity the audigy 1 owners... And contemplate getting an Audigy 2 ZS, wondering what I might be missing.

actually you could do a audigy2 drivers hack on A1 and live cards

http://www.tech-pc.co.uk/audigy-1.php

haven't gotten around to it yet though.

this shows that live and audigy cards can sound better, but creative decided to use these drivers for their A2 cards. this is where i base my theory that creative did this purposfully so people will buy a2.

 

[jjyiz28]

Originally posted by: Thor_Sevan
jjyiz28, try playing some music that has deep bass, strong midrange and some hights.
For exemple, I could propose the MAXPAYNE intro music u can get on MaxPayne 2 or www.maxpayne2.com.

When CMSS enabled, the deep heartbeat sound (mostly at the begenning at 34 seconds ) should disappear at 90 % I can say.
If you don't hear any difference, it could be that CMSS needs 4.1 setup to work and is disabled by default if u have 2.1 or stereo selected.

nope, no difference at all. im glad.

whew, the intro sounds tight.

 

[Nebor]

jjzy, if you read any of my posts, I explained why you heard no difference. CMSS doesn't effect 2.1 systems, since most music is stereo format to begin with...

 

[Pariah]

CMSS2 will still manipulate audio no matter what type of speakers are chosen in the control panel, and it is clearly audible. I could not hear any difference between CMSS1 on or off when limiting output to stereo.

Edit:

Upon further listening, I don't think CMSS1 does anything at all if your speakers are set 2.1. Listening through headphones, if I set the speakers to 4/5/6.1 and I enable CMSS1 I can hear some of the base drop out, but I don't hear any difference when the speakers are set to 2.1. If I set it to headphones, which sounds terrible on its own, CMSS1 alters the sound the most out of any of the settings. CMSS2 audibly affects every speaker setting.