What is your opinion of the Chevrolet Volt?

[Aharami]

The Volt is out of my price range. But I recently saw a Bolt at a dealer lot and I'm seriously considering it. I mean the Model 3 is significantly sexier, but I'll need to buy a car next year. Hopefully there are more EVs in the market next year

 

[Yuriman]

I've seen fairly low-mile Volts around for under 10k, and even a handful for less than 8k...

 

[Aharami]

I've seen fairly low-mile Volts around for under 10k, and even a handful for less than 8k...

interesting

 

[TurtleCrusher]

The Volt is out of my price range. But I recently saw a Bolt at a dealer lot and I'm seriously considering it. I mean the Model 3 is significantly sexier, but I'll need to buy a car next year. Hopefully there are more EVs in the market next year

Buying a used car in my city is absurdly expensive but I was able to get this one for 13k. If you can buy a Bolt you can buy a couple used Volts!

I also don't see much reason for these cars to have a ton of 'wear and tear' since they likely were driven with mostly electric. According to my onstar about 43% was driven on gas, the rest was electric. The commute that my wife makes to and from work and the places that we go, we typically don't use any gas since we've been plugging it in.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

It only charges at 8 amps? Can you select 12 somehow? Most the evs I’ve used have both modes or default to 12.

It defaults to 8 every time you turn the car on if you are using the supplied portable EVSE, which I use exclusively. One has to manually switch it to 12 amp before you turn the car off. On hot or cold nights (which we're approaching) Chevrolet recommends keeping the vehicle plugged in throughout the night to keep the battery at proper temp. Just got home, even at 8 amp the car should be fully charged in 9 hours.

 

[herm0016]

It defaults to 8 every time you turn the car on if you are using the supplied portable EVSE, which I use exclusively. One has to manually switch it to 12 amp before you turn the car off. On hot or cold nights (which we're approaching) Chevrolet recommends keeping the vehicle plugged in throughout the night to keep the battery at proper temp. Just got home, even at 8 amp the car should be fully charged in 9 hours.

And if you are charging at 240 volts, you halve that time, and it charges at whatever max rate is for the car or charger. They default to 8 because people have shitty wiring and were melting plugs and outlets at 12 amps for hours at a time, and blaming the car or charging cord.

 

[NutBucket]

That's lame. I know some of my powertools draw more than 8 amps. I wonder if there's a way to override it....Maybe dealer programmed or something.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

That's lame. I know some of my powertools draw more than 8 amps. I wonder if there's a way to override it....Maybe dealer programmed or something.

It does do 12 amps, but you have to set it every time before you shut it off if using the supplied portable charger like I am. If you install a different unit, including any hardwired unit it will charge it at 120/240V 16Amp, which will charge it in just 4 hours. I don't own my place so I'm not going that far. 8/12amp @ 120V is certainly fast enough.

We've already increased the lifetime MPG rating by half a MPG in the last two weeks driving only on electric.

 

[herm0016]

power tools are also not running for hours and hours at a time and are not bringing the infrastructure to a steady state condition at 8 or 12 amps.

 

[SNC]

even with using the gas engine

The ICE does nothing but turn a generator, so there is absolutely no difference in power. It's not like other hybrids, it's an all electric powertrain with an onboard generator. As such there is no direct connection between the ICE and the drive wheels. I drove one of these for a little trip with my FIL. It's a neat little car, but I'm not ready to give up ny Outback.

 

[Yuriman]

The ICE does nothing but turn a generator, so there is absolutely no difference in power. It's not like other hybrids, it's an all electric powertrain with an onboard generator. As such there is no direct connection between the ICE and the drive wheels. I drove one of these for a little trip with my FIL. It's a neat little car, but I'm not ready to give up ny Outback.

This is wrong. The Volt's transmission is very similar to that of a Prius, it's an orbital gearbox. Although the electric motor usually* drives the wheels alone, the ICE will drive them directly when the battery is low, or under certain conditions of hard acceleration.

 

[SNC]

This is wrong. The Volt's transmission is very similar to that of a Prius, it's an orbital gearbox. Although the electric motor usually* drives the wheels alone, the ICE will drive them directly when the battery is low, or under certain conditions of hard acceleration.

This is not how it was explained to me. I guess I should have verified before posting, but I stand corrected. Thanks for the info.

 

[Yuriman]

For what it's worth, Honda* and Nissan both have true series hybrids.

The Nissan e-Note hybrid uses the Leaf's drivetrain with a much smaller smaller battery, and has a 1.2L gas engine which connects only to a generator. It delivers phenomenal city economy, because the engine can run solely in its most efficient powerband to keep the battery topped off, and then shut off when not needed.

The Accord Hybrid (and Clarity) are similar, but have a clutched (one-speed) direct drive to the wheels which engages at a certain speed (I believe around 60mph). Below this there's no way to drive the wheels, while above this the engine and electric motor can drive them in parallel. The reason to have this because it's more efficient to have direct power transmission, rather than converting from mechanical to electrical at a loss, storing it in the battery at a loss, taking it out of the battery at a loss, and then converting from electrical back to mechanical at a loss. In city driving, generally varying engine RPM and load are more of a loss, so it's better to take the conversion losses.

From my understanding, this is generally the most efficient way to lay out a hybrid; there's no complex transmission with moving parts causing friction or to fail, the engine can always be run in its most efficient range, and you avoid conversion losses where possible. It's also trivial to make it a plug-in. The downside is that you need a much larger (and more expensive) electric motor for this type of system, and the clutch between engine and wheels adds slight cost and complexity over a pure series hybrid.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

When I hard accelerate when I'm out of range I don't hear the gas generator kick on until 10-15 seconds later, often when I'm at the next stop light. Are gen1/2 that different?

 

[Yuriman]

They have significantly different transmission layouts (even though they're both orbital gear sets), but both are capable of directly driving the wheels with the engine.

 

[TurtleCrusher]

I just find it funny that I'll completely floor it on gas mode and the gas engine doesn't kick on until I'm already going 30-40. If there's no "gears" then how cold it power the wheels except at a certain speed?

 

[herm0016]

I just find it funny that I'll completely floor it on gas mode and the gas engine doesn't kick on until I'm already going 30-40. If there's no "gears" then how cold it power the wheels except at a certain speed?

The magic of using the ring gear to vary the apparent gear ratio between the engine and the output. its somewhat unique in this regard. The engine only clutches into the ring gear to spin it at high speeds to reduce the rpm of MGB which makes it more efficient. You also get more torque at lower RPM with these types of motors.

Its really not providing much tractive force to the wheels. The volt only does this when you are running in hybrid mode as well, its really a circumstance of design and layout more than it is efficiency. MGA is clutched into the engine at all times when running in hybrid mode because it is also the generator. In hybrid mode the engine is generating electricity using MGA. MGA/engine is clutched into the ring gear to reduce the apparent ratio between MGB and the wheels. It is capable of doing 100 mph with no gas, just not for very far because MGA and MGB are running at a high RPM, thus inefficient and with a lower amount of torque.

Its not super easy to explain the why without some kind of model or knowledge of planetary gear sets being used with a live ring.
Most planetary sets are used with a static ring gear, such as your battery powered drill or your stick blender. They are compact and able to produce a high reduction. those things have ~20k max rpm motors and spin the doing stuff end at a much much lower speed.

It's really a bit of brilliant engineering. also notable, the gen 2 system reduced several kilos of rare earths with unique and GM patented magnet chemistry. They literately redesigned the chemical makeup of the magnets in the motors to be perfect for the application and reduce rare earth metal use. There is a great write up of all this in the ASME journal.