WHAT MOTHERBOARDS HAVE 3 PCE-E x16 that will all run at x16 in NON SLI?

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: SimSamurai
My preliminary search for a TRUE cooler on Ebay yields a nice beer cooler. Perhaps a good addition to the flight galley! ......"Yes stewardess I think I will have another Guinness..." (by lapping I assume you don't mean drinking ???)

By TRUE, he is referring to Thermal Right Ultra Extreme which is like $60 right out of the box and then you have to purchase a fan for it too. Also most users that have it either lap (eg. sand to remove nickle plating and make it flatter) because the base is convex.

You may just want to pick up and Xigmatek S1284 instead as it will be compare able to the TRUE for less money.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Any update on your decision for upgrading Sim?

 

[SimSamurai]

BadRobot above said that PCI-e 1.0 slots are fine for now so my question is this. I am currently using my 2 BFG 7900's at a restricted 8x bandwidth. (I also assume these cards are PCI-e V1.0 and I assume the 8800's are as well too ..but they however have Vista support correct?) Out of the 4 slots I have now on my Quad Royal mobo I am using slots #1 & #3 for GPU airspace separation. The two center slots (#2 & #3) run at 16x while the outer two (#1 & #4) run at 8x.

If I use all 4 slots simultaneously or I use any outer slot with one of the two inner slots (like I am now) then everything is bumped down to 8x. So my question is this: Even though this is PCI-e V1 (or maybe V1.1) would I see a noticeable performance increase by just running my cards in the two middle 16x slots, (again this would be non SLI but I assume they would then run at 16x bandwidth then too?) I assume the obvious answer is yes and I would have done this already if it wasn't for the restricted airflow issue..and hence why I had decided that if I had to spend $3-400 on a water cooling system that I should instead just upgrade my motherboard and processor for the same amount.

If this assumption of benefits from a bandwidth increase to 16x is correct then I would still be happy finding any motherboard with 3 well spaced PCI-e V1.0 slots that can have all three running at 16x bandwidth but again I don't think that this exists either and the best I can hope for is any board that will do at least 16x-16x-8x with 3 cards be it PCI-e V1.0 or 2.0 If I was to purchase a new board that is PCI-e V2.0 it would irrelevant anyways until I could upgrade to a V2.0 compliant video card which for now is very cost prohibitive. I also assume any 2.0 board would be retro-compatible with running a V-1.0 GPU card ...Yes...No ???

This issue is also why I had mentioned the new Skulltrail mobo before as an option because it has 4 PCI-e V1.1 slots and is touted as having all 4 at 16x electrically. So to recap guys my goal is to run at minimum 3 video cards at the 16x bandwidth. If the Skulltrail was say $250 and I could get 2 2.5ghz Xeon Quads (or even duals) for say $500 more then I would be likely to try that. However at current prices this set-up would be more like $2,000.00

I can only assume my 7900's are bottlenecked now at 8x so I'm wanting to open up that other half to see how they respond and if I get really improved frame rates then I won't be so jumpy to run out and get 8800's yet either. If any new motherboard I buy is capable of V2.0 then great as it is planning for the future but if not it's really no big deal as I can't afford any new top of the line 2.0 video card anyway and it sounds like most game software including FS-X probably can't even make use of the 2.0 performance increase. --HOWEVER I am hoping it will do much better using 7900 or 8800 GPU's at the V1.0 16x bandwidth and hence this is a big reason why I originally started this post.

Again....I want maximum results at the minimum cost and I do realize that just throwing money at the problem to get the latest and greatest may not be solving the issue.

 

[BeastFromTheEast]

"Again, I have found no motherboard yet that has 3 x16 slots at 3 x x16 electrically."

Not sure if you misunderstood or not. The 790i (and it sounds like possibly the 780 also) do this. 2 slots are PCIe 2.0 (which is like double the bandwith of PCEe 1.1 x16) and 1 slot is PCIe 1.1 x16...this is 3 x16 slots @ x16 electrical (and even more since 2 of the slots are PCIe 2.0). Just FYI.

 

[SimSamurai]

Thanks for the cooling tips... why the hell would they make a convex base to touch the CPU ?? That sounds damagingly dangerous! On my Pentium D I have a Zalman "Ultra Quiet" CNPS9500 AT. It does a good job I guess but I don't really know how to verify that as I am not currently overclocking and I don't monitor my temps. (recommend any good programs for this?) --But what really bugs me about it is I have to blow it out about once every 2 months because it develops such a hair and dust mat layer behind the fan on the copper fins that I can only assume the airflow is really restricted over the fins and heat pipe.. so its just one more reason to switch to water cooling!

 

[SimSamurai]

Beast, ...gotcha.. are you sure the 3rd v1.1 16x slot isn't running at 8x electrically? And please help verify if this holds true for the 780i too as that is what I am currently looking at as I could still use my existing DDR-2 with the 780i series.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: SimSamurai
I also assume any 2.0 board would be retro-compatible with running a V-1.0 GPU card ...Yes...No ???

Pci-Express 2.0 is backwards compatible so yes, a Pci-express 1.0 card would work just fine.

This issue is also why I had mentioned the new Skulltrail mobo before as an option because it has 4 PCI-e V1.1 slots and is touted as having all 4 at 16x electrically. So to recap guys my goal is to run at minimum 3 video cards at the 16x bandwidth. If the Skulltrail was say $250 and I could get 2 2.5ghz Xeon Quads (or even duals) for say $500 more then I would be likely to try that. However at current prices this set-up would be more like $2,000.00

780i and 790i are also both x16 physically and electrically.

I can only assume my 7900's are bottlenecked now at 8x so I'm wanting to open up that other half to see how they respond and if I get really improved frame rates then I won't be so jumpy to run out and get 8800's yet either. If any new motherboard I buy is capable of V2.0 then great as it is planning for the future but if not it's really no big deal as I can't afford any new top of the line 2.0 video card anyway and it sounds like most game software including FS-X probably can't even make use of the 2.0 performance increase. --HOWEVER I am hoping it will do much better using 7900 or 8800 GPU's at the V1.0 16x bandwidth and hence this is a big reason why I originally started this post.

If anything your going to see more of an increase in performance from upgrade to a quad core.

Thanks for the cooling tips... why the hell would they make a convex base to touch the CPU ?? That sounds damagingly dangerous! On my Pentium D I have a Zalman "Ultra Quiet" CNPS9500 AT. It does a good job I guess but I don't really know how to verify that as I am not currently overclocking and I don't monitor my temps. (recommend any good programs for this?) --But what really bugs me about it is I have to blow it out about once every 2 months because it develops such a hair and dust mat layer behind the fan on the copper fins that I can only assume the airflow is really restricted over the fins and heat pipe.. so its just one more reason to switch to water cooling!

When intel adds the IHS (integrated heat spreader) so they can laser on the serial number and what not, it usually causes the cpu to be slightly concave. So some manufactures tend to make their heatsinks convex to negate this. Besides that the TRUE mounting system isn't that great as it is prone to moving around. As far as dust, hair, etc. you can buy fan filters to put in front of the case fan's to limit it getting into your system, but it also limits airflow. Watercooling has is own maintenance to do as well, I don't know much about it though.

 

[SimSamurai]

Quicksilver, once again thanks for the great clarifications and also once again this re-confirms that the overall best "bang for the buck" for my flight simulator upgrade is most likely a 780i with a slightly overclocked Q6600. And I should probably look at scrapping my 7900's now for whatever I can and make the jump up to 8800's soon.

As far as my case, a Thermaltake Xaser III - I have the side cover off always mostly because my PSU and SATA connection cables pretty much prohibit me from putting it on as my harddrives face out side ways and not rearward. It was fine when I had standard flat ribbon IDE cables but times they are a changin. My hardrive connects stick out far enough that I'm pretty sure some of them might pull out if I slipped the door on! The case has 7 stock fans, 4 of which have stock washable filters already but yes...having the door off adds dust quickly. For now I carefully use my home vac with a McDonalds straw ducktaped to the nozzle to remove the Zalmans dust mat! (necessity breeds invention!)

I am really looking to buy a good 19" wide x 20" deep x 7" high rackmount or table top case like the Antec Take 4. With cooling towers so big and heavy these days and video cards being so heavy (my 7900's are just disgustingly heavy) it really make sense to just lay the motherboard flat again "Ol'School" style! (and since heat rises this makes more sense too so as to more evenly wick heat away from the motherboard...) I'm counting frames one degree at a time!

 

[myocardia]

Since the first flight simulator in 1980, all flight sims have been CPU-bound. For the first time in MS's history, though, FSX requires not only a fast CPU, but also a fairly fast video card. You need to buy the fastest quad-core you can afford (or a super fast dual-core), and a faster video card for your main exterior view, along with a motherboard with three PCIe slots. Here are the benchmarks for FSX.

You'll want one of these processors, one of these motherboards, this RAM, one of these video cards, along with some 90 degree SATA cables, so you can reattach your case side panel.

Oh yeah, the difference between quads and duals with FSX. With a faster dual-core, you'll get slightly higher framerates, in some areas. With a slightly slower quad-core, you'll get slightly lower framerates in some areas, and alot higher in other areas. That's because FSX can and does overwhelm a dual-core, and your framerates plunge. With a quad-core, your framerates stay fairly static, even while flying @ 1000' AGL through downtown NYC/LA/London/Tokyo. Sure they're lower there than they are while flying over Kansas, but they never plummet, like they can/do with a dual-core.

 

[SimSamurai]

I'm glad you got here doc, I was on the verge of a heart attack! That new benchmark is A+ Thanks for the links and input...well done!

 

[SimSamurai]

Also...the case with door off issue is more from the SATA power connection cables from my power supply. The smaller SATA data cables stick out too and the 90 degree heads you linked would help but its the power connects that are the bigger problem. I literary have about 1" of space from the drives to the door. If I could just press the door straight on it might work but the sliding friction will just not cut it.

Once again this is probably a moot issue anyway as I would rather just scrap my tower (and maybe eventually turn it into a whole water cooling unit) and will place all my pc components in a tabletop or rackmount case.

 

[SimSamurai]

I think we are done here guys unless somebody wants to keep things alive once we see a motherboard with 3 or even 4 full 16x version 2.0 PCI-e slots that are all 16x electrically. In the meantime based on everyone's great comments I will soon buy the Q6600 (or Q6700 if I can swing it), a 780i motherboard, and will upgrade my GPU's to three 8800 video cards (or again even higher ...paycheck depending!) So in essence this thread for me personally is wrapped up for the summer. .. Time to fly!

As a final note I will be posting some YouTube videos most likely in September entitled SimSamurai Flight Simulator to show off my 2-seat sim station with some difficult mountain approaches in heavy weather. Hopefully by then I will also have the dual yokes and throttle quadrant working. I am also going to be selling licensed copies of blueprints for $25.00 if anyone wants to build their own station! I have 12 full size 24x32 prints, over 300 assembly photos, and a 40 page how to build A-Z manual. The material costs are less than $400 and the station doubles as a home-desk / media center. It has built-in shelves on the side for CD's, books, games, maps, etc...In other words you can put it in you living room without it looking like an airplane stuffed in your house. (wife approved!)

I have also created a multi-colored, multi-format, spreadsheet product called the GLOBETREKKER 1000 TM. This is an extremely comprehensive flight adventure containing 12 chapters with over 1,000 if the worlds most difficult airports organized into point to point hops that will have you traverse the entire globe over several different world tours. It includes all airport data and has a built it time/speed/distance calculator. A buddy and I are on World Tour 1 (165 legs) and are now in lower South America in the Andes. We began flying this tour in north Alaska last year.

I spent 2 years hunting only the best of the best most challenging airports the sim has to offer as well cross referenced them with all of the real worlds most difficult AND included all stock glitches, bowls, crevasses, anomolies, etc.. It took me a LONG, LONG, LONG time to hand pick and then string them together in an orderly fashion. It is 90% VFR tours but one chapter is dedicated to IFR and many of the VFR trips you take will have many IFR capable airstrips. I can only say that since starting out with the GLOBETREKKER 1000 it has BY FAR been the most fun, enjoyable, and certainly the most challenging sim flying I've ever had. The cost here is only $15 which is quite reasonable considering how much fun it is! I will also offer $35 for both the station blueprints, manuals, and the GT-1000 !!

If anyone is interested in this stuff or wants to see some SimSamurai flight deck photos drop an email to : CaptanNemo@earthlink.net

Other than that people...have a great summer....and keep the greasy side down!