WHAT MOTHERBOARDS HAVE 3 PCE-E x16 that will all run at x16 in NON SLI?

[SimSamurai]

Hi folks, I am a pilot and flight simulation experimentalist building an advanced set-up for student training. Last year I bought a Gigabyte Quad Royal motherboard which was (and still is to my knowledge) the only "monsterboard" to date that has had 4 PCE-E slots (two 8x slots, and two x16 slots) Unfortunately when using 4 video cards in this (all non SLI) they run at 8x bandwidth each. Furthermore I can only use "skinny" cards like 7800 or 7900 GTX 256mb due to space constraints between the 4 video card slots for airflow.

Because of poor framerates I eventually had to drop back to just 2 more powerful 7900 GTX 512mb video cards and retained 4 monitor outputs (3 widescreen LCD's for aircraft instrumentation an a overhead projector for my main view) This is all done via Nvidia "dual view" settings at the max allowable resolution for each device. (card 1 supports 2 LCD's, and card 2 supports 1 LCD and 1 projector)

I now use slots 1 & 3 on the motherboard which again only yields an 8x bandwidth for each video card. If I was to use the center #2 & #3 x16 slots then both of these massive heat-pipe cooled cards would be sandwiched right against one another and thus the #2 slotted card would get no airflow and would most likely become damaged at some point. Water cooling has been a thought for some time but I am not really ready for the mess or large expense to do what would be necessary for my simulator station and at the same time I really do not know if I would even get the full use of the 16x bandwidth in non SLI mode if using the two center x16 slots as i don't know about my video card capability to use that much headroom. However I do want to make a system that will use it both in PCI-E capability as well as video card capability. ( I want to see frost on the wingtips man !!!!!)

To get to the meat and potatoes of this post I am looking for any ample motherboard (and most likely last years socket 775 and 680i and or any Nforce 4 chipset board for cost savings) for which must have at least 2 (and preferrably 3) widely spaced PCI-E slots that will each truly function at x16 bandwidth in NON SLI MODE as again I am looking to output 4 or even 5 monitor views using 2 or 3 video cards. If there happens to be any motherboard that does support 4 or more independant monitor outputs while in SLI mode (or non SLI) at full 16x then I don't know of it and are there any available that will support even 3 PCI-E video cards at full 16x bandwidth? (again either at 16x in non SLI or 16x with the SLI bridge.)

Therefore I would also like some SLI bandwidth use clarification here (as I'm sure many of us still do) on what exactly are the video bandwidth limitations of both SLI and non SLI use? Ideally I want each video card to have access to the full x16 bandwidth whenever needed and how it gets up there is the big question! (Again, while I demand high framerates I also don't want to spend senseless money on things that may only help " a little bit")

For instance lets say Im using just one 7900gtx video card in an x16 slot. Does the card then run at 16x bandwidth with one monitor? If I add a second monitor to that card is each monitor effectively using only 8x each? OR can I only get the bandwith increase by adding the second video card to another x16 slot, connect and enable SLI, and just use one monitor output over the two cards?

I know there are some new "X32" motherboards out there (Abit, Fatality, Asus Extreme) that are supposed to provide full 16x bandwidth to the video cards in SLI mode but would this also be true for my plan of 2 cards /4 monitors in a non SLI configuration, or are there any motherboards that will run 3 cards with 4-6 independant monitors via nvidia dual view settings and with the SLI enabled too? Again this all has to be geared for the simulator purpose I have in mind!

At the end of the day I am truly looking for any motherboard with three (3) PCI-E x16 slots that will each run at full 16x in non SLI (or even SLI if able) so that 2 video cards will support 4 monitors for displaying my aircraft flight instruments and a third video card that will just feed my overhead projector which displays my main exterior view. Thus this 3rd card with only one monitor should have 16x all to itself as it will constantly display the most 3-D extertior view data.

Once I have built this new system I will soon build a duplicate machine to run another 4 monitors for the added exterior left/right 45/90 degree side views. So whatever motherboard I choose now really needs to be THE RIGHT ONE! Im also not quite ready to go with the newest quad supported 780i motherboards such as the Dq6 for example as I am looking to still use my existing P-D chip, (or a core2duo perhaps) my existing DDR-2 ram, and 7900gtx video cards for now. I know there are some motherbaords from this past year that could fit the bill at a right price point but I just don't know which ones to look for.

So after reading all this please help answer my SLI / bandwidth/x16 support questions first and secondly please direct me to ANY motherboards out there (last years models or this years...) that will fit the bill for my 3 video card /5 monitor project.



--And if you really don't know your facts on the SLI/x16 subject PLEASE don't speculate here. I'm looking for professional answers and real facts here as this is not just some gaming rig, but is going to be built for actual professional training useage and is therefore very important that I build this system the right way from taxi to rollout.

Thanks in advance people!!!!

OUR CURRENT FLIGHT RIG :

MOBO -- Gigabyte Quad Royal
TWR -- Thermaltake Xaser III
PSU -- BFG 1,000 watt
CHIP -- Pentium D 3.4ghz/800 emt 64 enabled
O.S. -- Windows XP (x64 professional) --works like a dream!
RAM -- 4 gigs DDR2 (4x 1024) OCZ Gold 667
HDD -- 2 x 250 MAXTOR in RAID STRIPE (two heads are better than one!)
HDD - 1 x 350 back-up storage/media drive
V-CARDS -- 2 x BFG 7900gtx 512mb (running at 8x each in non SLI)
LCD's -- 3 Benq 20" widescreen (and a projector)
FS Platform -- Flight Sim 2004 , and FS-X.
150 custom modified aircraft.
2 seat multi-engine simulator station.
80+ addtional tactile cockpit controls.
1 large coffemaker.
Cost.... (alot !)

 

[Quiksilver]

What your looking for does not exist. No current motherboard supports a full x16 bandwidth lanes for all 3 slots without using crossfirex or sli.

 

[SimSamurai]

Ok,, well then ARE THERE any motherboards with 3 PCE-e x16 slots that will support 3 video cards linked via SLI or Crossfire and will allow me to run 5 or 6 monitors at any bandwidth (8x or otherwise) ???

 

[lopri]

NForce 780i/790i have 3 full x16 lanes and they don't need to be used for SLI. Two of them are PCIe 2.0, and the middle one is PCIe 1.0. Theoretically PCIe 2.0 doubles the bandwidth of PCIe 1.0, so you don't really lose out with PCIe 2.0 x8 lanes compared to PCIe 1.0 x16 lanes.

 

[SimSamurai]

Excellent, thank you for the steer. I will look at those. I also looked at the XFX 680i SLI last night as it too has 3 PCI-E slots. The outer two will run at 16x electrically and the center one will run at 8x electrically. (again I hope in non SLI too) All the lane size vs. what it will actually do is QUITE confusing as well is VERY hard to find without downloading the actual motherboard manuals ! Much of it is sooo misleading.

Although they are not the PCI-E 2.0 version like the 790i the 680i may be a suitable cost resolution for now so that can still use my Pentium D chip and my DDR-2 667 ram as well will support XP Pro x64! I know the XFX 680i version is at least $100-150 less than the lastest 780/790i and I think the 790i must also use newer chips, DDR-3, and only supports Vista (which I loathe as I have already spent 6 months in a headlock with it and after having a slew of problems I went back to XP and direct X 9...). XP Pro x64 has been working great on the system I have now and would like to stick with it for awhile...

In any case the 3 PCI-E 790i board would perhaps be great for building my second simulation PC next fall so what exact board or manufacturers do you recommend for the 790i ? I saw XFX has a really good video review on YouTube.....any others ?

 

[krnmastersgt]

SLI = no multi-monitor, Crossfire = multi-monitor support. Keep in mind you can run the cards in non-sli/cf and each card will do it's own thing, if you run Crossfire across all 3 cards the max performance they can deliver is higher, and if most of your monitors are doing like graphical work such as instrumental information, then your projector display will probably gain an fps boost, might be wrong on that though, but ideally that would be the case.

790i Can use any socket 775 cpu, including your Pentium D, however I was under the impression that most flight simulators were cpu workload heavy, but I might be wrong on that. Might want to ask around for people who run flight sims on dual/quad cores and see if there's a notable difference.

As for the company to go with, XFX and EVGA (and any other company that sells it) are currently only selling reference model boards, wait till fall and check back here to see if there's a board that fits your specifications then. Only difference I know of between XFX and EVGA is the warranties, evga has step-up, and the way they package it. Otherwise both companies are essentially selling the same board with different logos attached.

 

[Heidfirst]

another possible solution would be to use something like Matrox Triplehead2go to drive multiple monitors from 1 gfx card outlet (there are both digital & analogue versions).
http://www.matrox.com/graphics...roducts/th2go/home.php

 

[SimSamurai]

Im already familiar with the Matrox system and the IR tracker head system too. The Matrox set up just expands a single view over 3 montors via a single video card output. This is essentially useless to those who really know about its limitations as this will set you back several hundred for the unit plus lets say at least 600 for the 3 dedicated monitors just to dsiplay a stretched main view. For under $700 you can now get a good DLP projector like I did and thus my main main view out the front of my simulator station is 8ft diagonal. (and could go to 12) AND with a punch of my switching box I can be watching movies or TV on it in under 30 seconds. I actually have it on a rolling ceiling track and when not flying I can also slide it over my couch for watching TV, movies, etc. So in my opinion (and at least for my purposes) the Matrox set-up is a waste of money.

Thanks for the tip though..I know you were just trying to help. -- If any one can tell me how to post pictures in a thread I can show you all my disgustingly sick set-up. Pick any aircraft you like....I probably have a custom cockpit for it. (or can make it in under a day)

 

[SimSamurai]

I am quite unfamiliar with the Crossfire system. Is that exclusive to AMD chipsets, or non-Nvidia chipset motherboards and or any specific type or brand of video card? If I can run 3 cards in a tri-linked Crossfire set-up and actually display 5 or 6 independant monitors then I am certainly game to try it. --No ...if it can be done I WILL TRY IT !

To re-cap from my main post I need to use 4 outputs for aircraft panel instrumentation ( 4 outputs over 2 video cards like I have now) and then the 3rd card would be feeding the projector. (and thus a dedicated card for the main view with one video output left over for just "shits and grins") (maybe the 6th output can display my overhead panel...)

Anyway, I assume if what you are saying is correct then linking all 3 cards via a tri-link Crossfire will balance the total usage load over all GPU resources as a whole to feed whatever amount of monitors I am hooking up. (1,2,3,4,5 or 6) Whereas the Nvida SLI system can only output its combined power resources to one monitor.

--If this will work PLEASE suggest a good 3 PCI-E motherboard with 3 x16 slots as well make suggestions for the 3 identical videocards. (I assume each should still have a minimum of 512mb of memory as that is what Im using now with satisfactory results in FS-2004.) As is the more I undock screens the lower my framerates go and obviously I take the biggest hit once I undock the main view to the projector... it is still working to flyable satisfaction with 2 7900gtx 512 cards running at 8x each but if I can go up to 3 cards on 16x lanes (or at least 2 at 16x an one at 8x) then maybe the added benefit "cross-linking" will give the ultimate joy-ride I'm looking for, i.e; maintaining acceptable 20-30 frame rates per second in inclement IFR weather! (Ceilings less than 500 ft and visibility less than 1 mi. to be exact!)

I can also pretty much assume all the 2-D instruments displayed probably do not need as much power to display as does constantly moving 3-D elements such as mountaneous terrain or dense clouds ! - I currently display ALOT more aircraft instruments than the base simulator provides but since this is a fairly static 2-D process I would think that the instrumentation "computational" end of the sim is probaly taxing my CPU more than GPU whereas the exterior view 3-D data taxes more of the graphics card as my frame rates are the worst when I fly into say Nepal in a snowstorm!

So we are getting closer to a good answer if the cross-fire set-up can actually hold up to what I want to throw at it!
I just need to make sure it can work and need to know what hardware will support it and preferrably I would like to stick with running XP Pro x64.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: SimSamurai
I am quite unfamiliar with the Crossfire system. Is that exclusive to AMD chipsets

Intel based chipsets like p35, x38, x48, and soon out p45 all support crossfire(crossfire x or is the amd side only?).

 

[semisonic9]

Crossfire does spread the GPUs evenly across multiple monitors, but does not, as far as I recall, support solutions of more than 2 cards on anything short of Skulltrail/etc-style development solutions that are probably not the best solution for you.

Crossfire is both intel (x38 and x48 boards) and AMD at present.

I'm pretty sure no mobo short of the 780/790s and up is going to do what you want it to, at this point, but I'll defer to more experienced posters in this regard.

~Semi

 

[SimSamurai]

Glad to know I'm on the bleeding edge of technology here! Again I would love to have any system that will support 3 video cards with 6 monitors at anything above 8x bandwidth.

So if I even have to get a cheaper motherboard that can do 16x-16x-8x I can stand that for now as the 8x slot would just get used for 2 instrument displays (primarily the co-pilot instruments and GPS.) I think the XFX 680i SLI is a worthy candidate. I'm also looking at the ABIT IN9 32X-MAX NV 680i SLI ... any comments on these guys??

For now, unless I can do what I really want to do (16x-16x-16x electrically - crossfired or not) there is no sense in spending $300+ on a motherboard that may only "almost" get me there. Hopefully in the coming year we will see this goal become possible.

I don't even use FS-X for simulation right now because its software FAR exceeds todays hardware. Even with my decent system and running just two out of my 4 monitors I get really bad framerates and that is already with the important graphics sliders set to about 20-30% of max and thus it does not look half as good as what I can still do with FS-2004 as I can typically maintain about 20-30 FPS with all 4 screens running in moderate weather and moderate terrain. (slower airspeeds at low altitude obviously helps too...)

Again the goal for now is maintain that or better with adding a 5th monitor and some bad weather. I am hoping that if I can at least run the two 7900gtx 512 cards at their 16x capability that it will help boost framerate performance if not maintain where I am at for now. ..again any comments on this statement are welcome!

In a nutshell the hardcore multi-monitor flight simmers of the world are all desperately waiting for hardware to catch up! I hope it's soon! (and I hope I'll be able to afford it when it hits!)

 

[bryanW1995]

i want sharks with freakin' laser beams on their heads...sir, all we have is sea bass...well, are they at least ill-tempered...VERY ill-tempered, sir!

 

[Fallen Kell]

Originally posted by: SimSamurai
Excellent, thank you for the steer. I will look at those. I also looked at the XFX 680i SLI last night as it too has 3 PCI-E slots. The outer two will run at 16x electrically and the center one will run at 8x electrically. (again I hope in non SLI too) All the lane size vs. what it will actually do is QUITE confusing as well is VERY hard to find without downloading the actual motherboard manuals ! Much of it is sooo misleading.

Although they are not the PCI-E 2.0 version like the 790i the 680i may be a suitable cost resolution for now so that can still use my Pentium D chip and my DDR-2 667 ram as well will support XP Pro x64! I know the XFX 680i version is at least $100-150 less than the lastest 780/790i and I think the 790i must also use newer chips, DDR-3, and only supports Vista (which I loathe as I have already spent 6 months in a headlock with it and after having a slew of problems I went back to XP and direct X 9...). XP Pro x64 has been working great on the system I have now and would like to stick with it for awhile...

In any case the 3 PCI-E 790i board would perhaps be great for building my second simulation PC next fall so what exact board or manufacturers do you recommend for the 790i ? I saw XFX has a really good video review on YouTube.....any others ?

As much of a cost savings the 680i may be over the 780i or 790i, stay away from the 680i. It really was a failed setup. There are tons of issues right and left, boot problems, shutdown problems, FSB holes, voltage regulation issues (and sensor issues)...

EVGA allowed their customers to trade in their 680i boards and pay some nominal fee to upgrade everyone to the 780 boards because EVGA recognized how many issues there were with the 680 boards.

 

[krnmastersgt]

Hmm, never heard of EVGA doing that for 680i owners, in any case wouldn't the 780/790 or any X38/X48 with 3 slots do what the OP wants? Personally I'd recommend Crossfire since SimSamurai stated he runs 3 monitors with a projector as well currently, hence only the 4 ports from 2 cards are needed, and you can stick in a third card not in Crossfire to power additional displays should the need arise. Just my opinion. And yes, please stay away from 680i.

 

[dhc014]

You might be able to connect up to 8 displays using a pair of some sort of ATI X2 card which has 4 DVI ports in a motherboard which has just two x16 PCI-E slots. x38, x48, etc...

Here is a list of video cards with 4 DVI ports on newegg.

Visiontek's product page for their HD 3870x2 Overclocked says "4 Dual-link DVI outputs (2 active when CrossFire is enabled)" I don't know how disabling crossfire affects an X2 card. It might split the x16 into 8x8.

I've noticed that most 9800GX2 cards have two DVI ports and a single HDMI port, which should make it possible to drive up to 6 displays with two of these cards. I haven't done this, but people on this thread on the hardforums say that it should work when SLI is disabled.

Check out this article on Tom's Hardware: PCI Express 2.0 Graphics Cards Tested. x16 may not be as important as you think. Their results show barely any difference between x4, x8, and x16 for a nVidia 9800GX2, though it does make a big difference in some situations such as Flight Simulator X, which I assume you're running.

 

[SimSamurai]

From what I've found so far in some Google searches is Crossfire will only support 2 monitors in Crossfire mode. I'm not too clear on the newer "Hybrid" Crossfire or CrossfireX set-ups that use a "Physics" card ???? In any case the goal is still a minimum of 5-6 independent view monitors and I want each card running at 16x. Again if 2 cards can run at 16x electrically, and the 3rd card will only run at 8x electrically then I can live with that. (16x electrically x 3 cards is of course the ultimate goal) If Crossfire multi-monitor support or future SLI (we can hope?) was to run only at 8x when not in Crossfire or SLI mode then I might as well stick with my current rig as right now I can already run 4 PCI-E 1.0 cards at 8x (albeit I would need to switch to water cooling to do so because of the "sandwich factor") Therefore I really need to go 16x (per 2 video outputs) ... or do nothing.

Also to be clear on my set-up I am not displaying one big desktop over all these monitors like some do. While I can mouse over each one while at the desktop I fire the sim up in monitor 1 only and when I fly it is always in windowed mode, and then I "undock" other "Panels" from the main cockpit and using the mouse I then grab and slide each newly opened panel window over to another monitor (these are the main exterior view to the projector, the radio stack/gps to the center (LCD 2), and the co-pilot panel to the co-pilots side LCD (3).

I am looking to add in the 3rd card set-up so that the projector would have the benefit of being on its own card and this would allow me to add another small monitor (for approach plates, or an overhead panel etc..) in place of where the projector was hooked to video card #2. Again I would most likely leave the 6th port on card 3 non-functional to allow this card to be fully utilized for the main exterior view only.

As DHC014 said above the 16x makes a big difference with Flight Simulator X which I have installed but don't use because my frame rates are crap at low altitude (below 10,000ft) or say when I am maneuvering on approach, and therefore for now, and like thousands of other simmers, I am stuck with using FS-2004 until I can find a good hardware resolution. One of the great features of FS-X is that it has a round earth. (FS-04 is like a "flat map") In FS-X you can fly to the edge of space and see stars and the curve of the earth, and its overall architecture and graphics capability is much more robust. They really built it with future capability in mind and thats why it really sucks on most peoples systems even the higher end ones. (and this is still with the in-built graphics slider set low) People can say games like Crysis eat frames all they want but try doing 200 knots in heavily detailed 3-D storm clouds in FS-X below 18k ft. I seriously think FS-X will be the graphics eating monster hands down. I'd love to use it but I just can't right now.

As a test (and just for kicks) my first FS-X add-on was a modified Space Shuttle which I took up to 99,999 ft from Florida and then glided to Chicago O'Hare in 20 minutes. Seeing the blackness of space and a curved earth on an 8ft diagonal projection screen is ohhh so QUITE TASTY! .... So lets find me a solution !

 

[krnmastersgt]

So what you want can be done by any 3 PCI-E x16 slot equipped motherboard, since you won't use either Crossfire or SLI. Now it also seems you could run on 2 lower end cards, like the 9600 GT for the equipment monitoring tasks while the projector will need the strongest card you're able to afford since it seems it'll be doing the most work. If you can't find a board that runs all 3 at x16 no worries, since the way I understand you've configured this the lower end monitors can run on the 9600GTs or the 4 port cards dhc suggested.

 

[Sylvanas]

I am at work (so I can't check if the link works) but here is a link to Flight Sim X running on 8 monitors with Crossfire X enabled on 4 3850's (theres probably more info on this if you google it, it was in ATI's CrossfireX launch promotion).

Footnotes:
Only Crossfire supports multimonitor multi-GPU acceleration. SLI does not.

There are no motherboards on the market at the moment (or in the forseeable future, Nahelem's rumoured X58 Chipset is 4 8x 2.0 slots like the current AMD 7 series) that offer 3 16x PCI-E 2.0 slots all running at 16x 2.0.

The Best option for CrossfireX is one of the new 7 series chipsets from AMD (like my MSI K9A2 Platinum in my sig) that are the only boards/chipsets to offer 4 slots that work in 2x16 2.0, 2x16 2.0 + 1x 8x 2.0, 4x 8x 2.0. For your purposes of using 3 cards this will be more than enough. Keep in mind that PCI-E 2.0 8x is equivilent in bandwidth to PCI-E 1.1 16x which is 4gb/s (correct me if I'm wrong). PCi-E 2.0 16x is 8gb/s with compatible GPU's (For CrossfireX linked above, that is AMD's 3800 series- For Nvidia cards that is the 8800GT/GTS/9800 series).

Nvidias 780a and 790i chipsets work in 2x PCI-E 2.0 16x + 1x PCI-E 1.1 16x.

If you believe you are bandwidth limited, you can always increase the PCI-E frequency to 100+ mhz. This is a form of overclocking so of course know what you are doing beforehand, but it can help alleviate bandwidth constraints (I have my cards running at 125mhz PCI-E, which is +25% bandwidth, this is the upper 'safe' limit). Be aware that PCI-E Overclocking is generally not recommended by people not willing to risk HDD corruption. This is due to the SATA bus (used for CD/DVD drives + HDD's) being tied to the PCI-E Bus therefore if the PCI-E frequency is too high it can cause corruption. Serious OC'ers generally go round this constraint by using IDE HDD's and CD/DVD drives which are not affected by the PCI-E bus.

 

[GundamF91]

GPU's important, but what you may also consider in an upgrade is to get a Core2Quad, it may help out to run your rig better depends on the sim software and other stuff you run in the background.

By the way, what are you running, Level 4 type flat panel trainer?

 

[krnmastersgt]

Like GundamF91 said, look into an upgrade for your cpu, I'm almost positive that FS X is cpu heavy, so a Pentium D is no comparison to an E8400 or Q6600 or even a Core2 of any kind really.

 

[dhc014]

Your best option, I think would be to get one very powerful single slot non-sli/crossfire card to use for the primary display, then get a single card with 4 DVI ports to handle the other displays. Use them in an x38 or x48 motherboard with a single quad core processor.

You could also use Intel's Skulltrail (D5400XS) motherboard to get four x16 PCI-E 1.1 slots to run all of your 7900GTX's simultaneously. Maybe upgrade to a 9800GTX to to drive the primary display and keep the other 7900GTX's to drive the other displays. Having two quad core processors would probably help with FSX also.

I've read that nVidia cards don't work well with FSX: http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1305783

 

[SimSamurai]

Thanks for the latest info guys I think we are making some progress now! I was checking out the EVGA 790i Ultra board which looks like it may be a good candidate for my upgrade. I also have to ask how many of you are running Vista x64 as I assume to get the benefits of dual and quad core chips you've got to have an x64 operating system. I'm still on the Pentium D 3.4 with XP-Pro x64 and have been very happy with it as I don't have many other programs aside from the 2 sims (fS-2004 /FS-X) and sim related programs. My CH Products Yoke and Pedals work fine too but recently discovered I can't use ELITE sim products with x64 and so for now my throttle quadrant is benched! Thats ok though...I'm now building my own!

Also...I checked out that AMD/crossfire 8 monitor set-up with FSX and again that looks to essentially be just one big desktop spanned across all monitors, or flight in the "virtual cockpit" mode. However I did see them open a different view in the top center monitor so maybe not. IMO that all looks too unrealistic as you don't have a good instrument view and all the side views are disproportionate and askew. (would be a real bitch flying a traffic pattern!) Maybe they did undock each view as I do but they don't have the monitors positioned to match the angles of what is displayed so it looks off .(and hence why I have an actual cockpit mock-up in my living room!)

On my set-up the main 3 LCD's have no exterior view at all they are ALL instruments. Only the projection screen is the view outside the cockpit and is 4 feet in front of my LCDs. If I can post a picture or two on here please tell me how otherwise I can always create a slideshow online somewhere I guess...

 

[SimSamurai]

Ahh, didn't see the Skulltrail suggestion I will check that out tonight, thanks for the tip...and with a name like Skulltrail I already love it!

 

[krnmastersgt]

Skulltrail has its own problems, such as requiring FBDIMMs for the memory, although it is a feasible option for your purposes I suppose. As for the 64 bit OS, they are only required for reading more than 2 or 3 gbs of ram, quad's operate in 32 bit OS's just fine.