What? No government shutdown threads?

[fskimospy]

Thread title, "no government shutdown thread?"

I say let the debt ceiling get reached and lets see what happens.

Provide a credible source that says "let the debt ceiling get reached and lets see what happens" is a good policy idea.

 

[Texashiker]

Provide a credible source that says "let the debt ceiling get reached and lets see what happens" is a good policy idea.

Are you able to form your own opinion? Or do you just repeat what you are told?

My opinion, my very own opinion that I formed, says not to raise the debt limit and lets see what happens.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

I am not using party as political; think of a marriage if you want.

One must live within their means; you do not keep spending without a way of paying for it. Cutting back hurts but it is the fiscal responsible thing to be done.

And looking for excuses to not cut back does not accomplish anything toward the goal.

:thumbsup:

How anyone can disagree with this state - government or consumer - is beyond me.

Oh wait, that's every liberal.

 

[BlueWolf47]

Are you able to form your opinion? Or do you just repeat what you are told?

My opinion, my very own opinion that I formed, says not to raise the debt limit and lets see what happens.

Well that may be the most well thought out reason for shuttiing down the government.

Lets just see what happens.

 

[Paul98]

My stance is insane because I do not want the government piling debt on my kids and grandkids?

Do you realize every dollar for the next three generations of tax payers has already been spent?

But for some reason we are supposed to be happy about the government raising the debt ceiling? Hurray, the debt ceiling has been raised, now we owe even more taxes!!! And I am supposed to support that madness?

This is where you fail over and over and over and over again.

We don't want to increase the debt forever, we want to make changes to get our debt stable. We want to come up with a good way to do it, rather than not pay our bills. We want to do it in a rational and reasonable fashion. We don't want to spend money then not pay what we owe. If we want to spend less we pass a smaller budget.

Just not raising the debt ceiling is insane you and others on here who support it even know it will have terrible consequences. But you don't care because you would rather not think about a real solution and just cause more problems. You just sound like an angry child who doesn't want to figure out a real and reasonable well thought out solution.

I will say it again, if you don't want to spend more and increase the debt you need to SPEND LESS. We can't spend more then just not pay our bills.

 

[fskimospy]

Are you able to form your own opinion? Or do you just repeat what you are told?

My opinion, my very own opinion that I formed, says not to raise the debt limit and lets see what happens.

So are you acknowledging that no credible source is on the record saying that your plan is a good idea?

 

[Paul98]

Are you able to form your own opinion? Or do you just repeat what you are told?

My opinion, my very own opinion that I formed, says not to raise the debt limit and lets see what happens.

You are unable to change your opinion even when shown to be stupidly incorrect. You have no clue what you are talking about and say oh lets just not raise the debt limit and see what happens. You have no clue what would happen. How about instead you research what will happen.

 

[jackstar7]

Are you able to form your own opinion? Or do you just repeat what you are told?

My opinion, my very own opinion that I formed, says not to raise the debt limit and lets see what happens.

You don't vote, right?

 

[Texashiker]

Well that may be the most well thought out reason for shuttiing down the government.

Lets just see what happens.

Isn't that how discoveries are made?

Columbus, lets sail east and see what we find.
Franklin, lets do all kinds of stuff and see what happens.
Edison, lets see what this string does when we put it in a vacuum and run electricity through it.
Jefferson, I want a team of men to go all the way to the Pacific ocean, just because.

Do not be afraid of the unknown. Do it and see what happens.

You don't vote, right?

Straight line Libertarian, and sometimes Republican.

I vote Libertarian just because I want to see what will happen if a third party wins.

 

[PlanetJosh]

I guess conservatives are perceived to be more qualified as far as education to discuss economics. Not that I agree with it. If I had to agree with it I would reluctantly agree with it. On some other political site forum in a quantitative easing thread during some heated arguments the Republicans asked the Dems to please list their economics education, classes and so forth. It was met with mostly silence which was amusing and painful to watch from my view.

 

[BlueWolf47]

Isn't that how discoveries are made?

Columbus, lets sail east and see what we find.
Franklin, lets do all kinds of stuff and see what happens.
Edison, lets see what this string does when we put it in a vacuum and run electricity through it.
Jefferson, I want a team of men to go all the way to the Pacific ocean, just because.

Do not be afraid of the unknown. Do it and see what happens.




Straight line Libertarian, and sometimes Republican.

I vote Libertarian just because I want to see what will happen if a third party wins.

Wow, maybe i just had a brain aneurysm but i think i just read someone equating the discovery of america to shutting down the government.

I don't even know how to respond to a statement this stupid....

 

[Texashiker]

I don't even know how to respond to a statement this stupid....

You do realize our government was an experiment,, right?

If the founding fathers were like the posters of this forum we would have had a monarchy all over again. We know what does not work, so lets just go with that.

We know raising the debt ceiling, and the ensuing fight does not work. So maybe its time to do something different.

 

[fskimospy]

You do realize our government was an experiment,, right?

If the founding fathers were like the posters of this forum we would have had a monarchy all over again. We know what does not work, so lets just go with that.

We know raising the debt ceiling, and the ensuing fight does not work. So maybe its time to do something different.

Despite the fact that basically every credible expert says that not raising the debt limit would be a catastrophe, you think that we should just try it anyway.

There's no way you don't realize that you're being an idiot at this point.

 

[Engineer]

We know raising the debt ceiling, and the ensuing fight does not work. So maybe its time to do something different.

A man is sitting in his car on a road on the side of a mountain. There is a large stream of water that's gushing off the side of the mountain across the road. The man watches 2 other cars go through the large stream and get flooded out. He decides to do something different. Realizing that he cannot go up the mountain side (to his left), he turns to the opposite direction and drives off the cliff side (to his right). It was something different, right?

Instead of waiting for the water to recede and then attempt to do it correctly, he did something different.

I don't think you'll like the results with a 'mountain this high'. If it were a little hill (a deficit of a few billion), not much of a problem, but to drive off the cliff because it was 'something different' and hope to survive?

Want to fix all of this? Get good paying jobs back and grow your way out of it. That will solve nearly every issue argued about in P&N for years....

 

[Texashiker]

Despite the fact that basically every credible expert says that not raising the debt limit would be a catastrophe, you think that we should just try it anyway.

There's no way you don't realize that you're being an idiot at this point.

Do you know about the tenth man doctrine, it come from world war Z, but there has to be an opposing view.

A man is sitting in his car on a road on the side of a mountain. There is a large stream of water that's gushing off the side of the mountain across the road. The man watches 2 other cars go through the large stream and get flooded out. He decides to do something different. Realizing that he cannot go up the mountain side (to his left), he turns to the opposite direction and drives off the cliff side (to his right). It was something different, right?

Chemical company has a leaking heat exchanger. To find out what metals work best with the corrosive chemical a test exchanger is built with using two rows of tubes of a different type of tubing.

After about a month the carbon steel tubes start leaking, the exchanger is pulled out of service.

Was it dumb to use carbon steel tubing? No, because you get to see side-by-side comparisons with 304l, 316l, hastalloy, monel,,,, tubing.

 

[Brainonska511]

Isn't that how discoveries are made?

Columbus, lets sail east and see what we find.
Franklin, lets do all kinds of stuff and see what happens.
Edison, lets see what this string does when we put it in a vacuum and run electricity through it.
Jefferson, I want a team of men to go all the way to the Pacific ocean, just because.

Do not be afraid of the unknown. Do it and see what happens.

Apparently, you know nothing about how discoveries are made. Most things are very incrimental. Knowledge built on knowledge.

Edison didn't invent the lightbulb or the idea of vacuuming it out. People much earlier already figured that part out. Jefferson didn't send people west just because. We purchased land and wanted to know what was out there and spread our influence.

 

[Texashiker]

Apparently, you know nothing about how discoveries are made.

Its pretty clear you sit in the basement of your moms house and never do anything.

 

[Brainonska511]

Its pretty clear you sit in the basement of your moms house and never do anything.

Yep... you got me figured out I guess working as scientist precludes me from knowing anything about how knowledge is gained.

You've been given plenty of information about how not raising the debt ceiling would be catastrophic, yet you provide ZERO evidence for your position, yet continue to argue for driving off the cliff. It's utter insanity.

 

[ElFenix]

One reason why Texas works so well, our state senators and representatives only work every other year.

And in the year they do meet, it is only for a few months.

This limits how much time to state has to pass junk laws. When the state works on a law, it better be something important.




Exactly.

The people nor the government can be rewarded for bad behavior.

Bad behavior is like holding a wolf by the ears, sooner or later you have to let go.

we can't even get roads built here or address our water priblems and you think texas works well?

 

[Texashiker]

we can't even get roads built here or address our water priblems and you think texas works well?

Your location? And what are you referring to?

I dont have any problems with water. I just pump it from a steam on my property.

You've been given plenty of information about how not raising the debt ceiling would be catastrophic, yet you provide ZERO evidence for your position, yet continue to argue for driving off the cliff. It's utter insanity.

As scientist you never have anyone offer an opposing view, ever?

If everyone went "yep, yep, yep,,," where would we be?

 

[jackstar7]

Straight line Libertarian, and sometimes Republican.

I vote Libertarian just because I want to see what will happen if a third party wins.

Integrity in your irresponsibility.

I guess that's something. Nothing good... but something.

 

[Engineer]

Chemical company has a leaking heat exchanger. To find out what metals work best with the corrosive chemical a test exchanger is built with using two rows of tubes of a different type of tubing.

After about a month the carbon steel tubes start leaking, the exchanger is pulled out of service.

Was it dumb to use carbon steel tubing? No, because you get to see side-by-side comparisons with 304l, 316l, hastalloy, monel,,,, tubing.

Not even close to the same comparison as what I suggested. Different kinds of tubing is not a radical dive off of a cliff and hope to survive.

 

[Texashiker]

Integrity in your irresponsibility.

Irresponsibility is voting for the same two parties, and expecting real change in government.

Not even close to the same comparison as what I suggested. Different kinds of tubing is not a radical dive off of a cliff and hope to survive.

I am not suggesting to drive off a cliff, just an experiment.

Let the government shut down, let people on welfare go hungry, let the price of food go up, let veterans stop recieving their checks and benefits,,,, maybe the people will take action.

It is going to take something besides the same ole-same ole for people to demand real change in their government.

 

[jackstar7]

Irresponsibility is voting for the same two parties, and expecting real change in government.

Nah, I'd say voting just to find out what happens and not because you support the positions of the representatives for whom you vote is irresponsible.

 

[Brainonska511]

As scientist you never have anyone offer an opposing view, ever?

If everyone went "yep, yep, yep,,," where would we be?

Of course opposing views have to be offered. But they don't have to be 180 degrees from the currently held views. A hypothesis is formulated based on available evidence and then you find ways to test it. If you get result X, you might say your hypothesis is supported, if you get result Y, you might say your hypothesis is wrong or that you need to rethink your idea.

It's not a blind pursuit going forward, just stabbing randomly in the dark hoping to hit something.

And just like science isn't about going forward blindly, setting government policy shouldn't be like: "this isn't working, so let's scrap the whole thing and do the opposite". Perhaps a little tweaking of what is already there may be best. Perhaps scrapping the whole thing would be best. But you have to take it on a case by case basis. And in this case, telling investors and the world economy to piss off (also known as defaulting) is bad policy, no matter which way you look at it. If you want to cut spending, fine, do it during appropriations. But if you want to cut spending, especially in lean times (which I agree with eskimospy on, is bad policy), you at least don't want to do it dramatically. Reducing the number of people employed by the government or supported by the government means you need to find that many more jobs in the public sector (which has been booming with jobs for the last few years /sarcasm).