What? No government shutdown threads?

[Texashiker]

not because you support the positions of the representatives for whom you vote is irresponsible.

They lie, they all lie, they all tell you what you want to hear to win your vote.

Once in office, its screw you until reelection time. Then they lie again.

 

[jackstar7]

They lie, they all lie, they all tell you what you want to hear to win your vote.

Once in office, its screw you until reelection time. Then they lie again.

Do you support campaign finance reform? Public financing?

 

[fskimospy]

Do you know about the tenth man doctrine, it come from world war Z, but there has to be an opposing view.




Chemical company has a leaking heat exchanger. To find out what metals work best with the corrosive chemical a test exchanger is built with using two rows of tubes of a different type of tubing.

After about a month the carbon steel tubes start leaking, the exchanger is pulled out of service.

Was it dumb to use carbon steel tubing? No, because you get to see side-by-side comparisons with 304l, 316l, hastalloy, monel,,,, tubing.

I'm going to pretend you didn't just try to argue using world war z.

Better example: you want to try using carbon steel tubes. Every single one of your materials engineers tells you that it not only won't work, but will cause a catastrophic explosion that will likely result in far reaching damage to the entire area.

You respond: "well, lets try it anyway". Were you dumb to use it? Hell yes.

 

[Texashiker]

Do you support campaign finance reform? Public financing?

Yes and yes.

I would like to voters educated about their choices. The only way to do that is through media, the only way to media is through money.

Throw $100 million into the libertarian party, buy enough air time, and the people will have a valid third party option.

I'm going to pretend you didn't just try to argue using world war z.

No, but someone has to offer an opposing opinion.

Every single one of your materials engineers tells you that it not only won't work, but will cause a catastrophic explosion that will likely result in far reaching damage to the entire area.

You respond: "well, lets try it anyway". Were you dumb to use it? Hell yes.

I have seen hundreds of test exchangers built. When the exchanger was pulled out of service, I saw the same engineers taking wall thickness measurements of the tubes, taking samples of the tubes back to the lab,,,.

Sounds like your material engineers need more field time.

 

[Engineer]

I have seen hundreds of test exchangers built. When the exchanger was pulled out of service, I saw the same engineers taking wall thickness measurements of the tubes, taking samples of the tubes back to the lab,,,.

Sounds like your material engineers need more field time.

Sounds like you need more time in your economics studies too......

 

[ElFenix]

Your location? And what are you referring to?

I dont have any problems with water. I just pump it from a steam on my property.

you paid absolutely 0 attention to the last legislative session, didn't you?

 

[Texashiker]

Sounds like you need more time in your economics studies too......

As in what? It should be basic common sense, debt = bad, living within a budget = good.

you paid absolutely 0 attention to the last legislative session, didn't you?

Yea, pretty much.

Are you referring to the water shortage facing the dallas area?

 

[fskimospy]

I have seen hundreds of test exchangers built. When the exchanger was pulled out of service, I saw the same engineers taking wall thickness measurements of the tubes, taking samples of the tubes back to the lab,,,.

Sounds like your material engineers need more field time.

You're deliberately trying to avoid things you can't answer again.

The question was not if people test things, it was if you would be making a dumb decision by implementing something against the unanimous opposition of the experts in your organization based on the principle of "well let's just try it and see what happens". That is unquestionably stupid.

There's no way that you don't realize that what you're saying is dumb at this point. You're just behaving like a child and refusing to admit it. Why?

 

[ElFenix]

Yea, pretty much.

Are you referring to the water shortage facing the dallas area?

http://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion...n-t-build-way-out-of-water-crisis-4282938.php

it's pretty much the whole state except for maybe your corner of it.

 

[Texashiker]

There's no way that you don't realize that what you're saying is dumb at this point. You're just behaving like a child and refusing to admit it. Why?

I expected more from you than petty insults.

How is the debt ceiling being reached, and parts of the federal government shutting down going to affect you?

Its not like the world is going to implode.

The sun will set at the end of the day, and it will rise the next morning. Just like it always has.

it's pretty much the whole state except for maybe your corner of it.

Too many people.

A couple of years ago the rice growers were looking at water rationing here in southeast Texas.

Maybe we need to build more reseviors? Lake sam rayburn supplies a lot of water to the beaumont and port arthur area.

 

[ElFenix]

Too many people.

A couple of years ago the rice growers were looking at water rationing here in southeast Texas.

Maybe we need to build more reseviors? Lake sam rayburn supplies a lot of water to the beaumont and port arthur area.

the reservoirs don't work all that well. there are empty ones in west texas that have never been full in the decades since being built and it's kind of amazing how fast the things drop during a drought.

maybe that desal microchip will work well enough we can use brackish from underground.

 

[fskimospy]

I expected more from you than petty insults.

How is the debt ceiling being reached, and parts of the federal government shutting down going to affect you?

Its not like the world is going to implode.

The sun will set at the end of the day, and it will rise the next morning. Just like it always has.

I expected more from you than elective ignorance. I think if you've managed to go this many pages with person after person dogpiling you for holding insane views and you haven't stopped to reconsider by now, nothing else we do will be able to penetrate that wall you've made to protect yourself from inconvenient facts.

It's very unfortunate that you've decided to behave so immaturely and that you've decided to hold positions that are so deeply irresponsible. We will just have to hope that there are enough rational people left out there to save us all from the likes of you.

 

[Texashiker]

I expected more from you than elective ignorance. I think if you've managed to go this many pages with person after person dogpiling you for holding insane views and you haven't stopped to reconsider by now, nothing else we do will be able to penetrate that wall you've made to protect yourself from inconvenient facts.

It's very unfortunate that you've decided to behave so immaturely and that you've decided to hold positions that are so deeply irresponsible. We will just have to hope that there are enough rational people left out there to save us all from the likes of you.

Have you ever wondered about the people who were alive when Rome fell? Did the people living on the edge of the empire know Rome fell? Or did they just stop getting their orders? Did they tell their kids and grandkids about the fall of Rome? If so, what kind of stories were told?

Do we "really" expect the United States government to last forever?

With the NSA, the CIA, the BATF, irs, department of education,,,,, maybe we need a hard reset.

Let the government shutdown. It has become a monstrosity that consumes everything in its path.

When the government runs out of money maybe the drone strikes that kill innocent people in the middle east will stop. Maybe the government will stop spying on its citizens? Maybe, just maybe, the irs will stop acting like a terrorist organization.

 

[fskimospy]

Have you ever wondered about the people who were alive when Rome fell? Did the people living on the edge of the empire know Rome fell? Or did they just stop getting their orders? Did they tell their kids and grandkids about the fall of Rome? If so, what kind of stories were told?

Do we "really" expect the United States government to last forever?

With the NSA, the CIA, the BATF, irs, department of education,,,,, maybe we need a hard reset.

Let the government shutdown. It has become a monstrosity that consumes everything in its path.

When the government runs out of money maybe the drone strikes that kill innocent people in the middle east will stop. Maybe the government will stop spying on its citizens? Maybe, just maybe, the irs will stop acting like a terrorist organization.

Annnnndddddd now the crazy has come out. I think this is as good a stopping point as any.

 

[Texashiker]

Annnnndddddd now the crazy has come out. I think this is as good a stopping point as any.

Crazy as in how?

Those are all legit questions, thoughts and opinions.

 

[werepossum]

You're spending all of your time blaming Obama when in reality, it's the same on both sides. When the GOP are in power, they have absolutely no issue raising the debt ceiling and the Democrats are crying foul. When the Dems are in power, they have no issue raising the debt ceiling and the GOP is crying foul. It's very clear that this happens year in and year out...but you knew that. You might not admit it but you know it, deep down in your soul. Hypocrisy runs amok on both sides of the aisle...

Well said. Two other things spring to mind, the first being that since the left owns the media, the Pubbies are always going to get the blame for any pain from a government shut-down. Regardless of their own feelings, they should all be smart enough to realize this. And the second is that a looming shut-down is not a smart time to negotiate ending any major government program. Every government program and department does some good, and ending it should ideally involve time spent recognizing this, identifying the good of that particular program or department, and ensuring that the good isn't killed along with the bad.

LOL Brilliant!

However, this battle should be fought at the continuing resolution stage on its own merits, not on raising the debt limit.

 

[IronWing]

How is the debt ceiling being reached, and parts of the federal government shutting down going to affect you?

Reaching the debt limit will not shut down the government. As long as appropriation laws are in place the government can legally keep spending and would be legally obligated to keep spending. That the money doesn't exist doesn't matter one bit; the government's balance sheets simply won't balance. This imbalance will ripple through the banking sector eventually locking it down as banks stop accepting deposits of government issued checks.

Reaching the debt limit will destroy the bond markets. The economic crisis of 2008 will be chump change.

 

[ivwshane]

Texashiker=P&N's greatest troll job?

 

[werepossum]

Reaching the debt limit will not shut down the government. As long as appropriation laws are in place the government can legally keep spending and would be legally obligated to keep spending. That the money doesn't exist doesn't matter one bit; the government's balance sheets simply won't balance. This imbalance will ripple through the banking sector eventually locking it down as banks stop accepting deposits of government issued checks.

Reaching the debt limit will destroy the bond markets. The economic crisis of 2008 will be chump change.

The Messiah and history both disagree with you. Once the government runs out of money, it will begin to shut down non-essential functions. Only when there is not enough money for essential functions will we even face the decision of whether the government will continue to issue checks with nothing in the bank, but once again history suggests that government will not spend money it does not have except by the legal method of selling bonds. If prevented from selling more bonds than before, this should not ever reach the level of cutting essential functions because our current debt limit is frickin' huge. Nor should there be a huge effect on the bond market, for everyone knows that government will redeem the bonds even if for political reasons it cannot do so on time. Remember, this would not be our first shut-down.

History also suggests that a government shut-down will essentially be a forced paid vacation for non-essential government employees.

 

[EagleKeeper]

the people responsible for running the government are not going to not pay the bills.

Tax payments will still come in. Bills can still be paid, some delayed. Some renegotiation on bonds.

What will happen is that the government will reduce expenses and look for other alternatives to bring in income. Essential services will be kept running so as to not shut down the economy (air traffic for one).

The nice thing is it shows that the government can run on less than use to; with some reduction of services.

 

[Fern]

-snip-
Edit: One more thing. I'd be for getting rid of the ceiling all together. It really serves little purpose other than to grandstand and then do nothing anyways. It also allows these politicians to vote to spend more then try to look like they are small govt on the back end. Getting rid of the debt ceiling would require them to actually address our spending problems at the time of voting on the spending.

IIRC, the Constitution requires that Congress approve borrowing. I don't think Congress can ignore that or delegate it to the President. I suppose they could just go ahead and authorize a crap ton of debt, but the politics for that would be very very bad.

Fern

 

[Texashiker]

IIRC, the Constitution requires that Congress approve borrowing. I don't think Congress can ignore that or delegate it to the President.

Before the federal reserve (and the central bank) congress was in charge of printing money, and setting the value of said money.

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/42/coinage-clause

"The Congress shall have Power To...coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin....
Article I, Section 8, Clause 5

Then the central bank came along with borrowing and national debt.

Andrew Jackson abolished the central bank, brought control of the money back to the government, and we had 0 national debt.

Then came the federal reserve, and back into debt we went.

I personally believe the founding fathers intended the government to work with no debt. If we read some of the writings about banks, it should be clear the founding fathers feared banks taking control of our money.

Thomas Jefferson said,

"And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale."

Jefferson also goes on to say,

"The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs"

http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation

The people should have control of the money through our elected officials, and not the banks.

What Jefferson feared has happened. A private organization, the federal reserve, has taken control of our money.

 

[fskimospy]

IIRC, the Constitution requires that Congress approve borrowing. I don't think Congress can ignore that or delegate it to the President. I suppose they could just go ahead and authorize a crap ton of debt, but the politics for that would be very very bad.

Fern

There's no part of the Constitution that requires Congress to approve borrowing. We could abolish the debt ceiling tomorrow if we wanted.

The only responsible thing to do now is to abolish the debt ceiling. We've already crossed the Rubicon in a sense where one political party has found that holding the nation hostage over it is to its political advantage. It's only a matter of time before the Democrats follow their lead on it, and then we will have a yearly financial crisis.

This is no way to run a country.

 

[fskimospy]

Before the federal reserve (and the central bank) congress was in charge of printing money, and setting the value of said money.

http://www.heritage.org/constitution/#!/articles/1/essays/42/coinage-clause




Then the central bank came along with borrowing and national debt.

Andrew Jackson abolished the central bank, brought control of the money back to the government, and we had 0 national debt.

Then came the federal reserve, and back into debt we went.

I personally believe the founding fathers intended the government to work with no debt. If we read some of the writings about banks, it should be clear the founding fathers feared banks taking control of our money.

Thomas Jefferson said,



Jefferson also goes on to say,



http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation

The people should have control of the money through our elected officials, and not the banks.

What Jefferson feared has happened. A private organization, the federal reserve, has taken control of our money.

Why don't you go quote some of the other founding fathers on banks and debt? I suggest starting with Alexander Hamilton. He's the yin to Jefferson's yang. Needless to say, the idea that the founders had some sort of cohesive idea on this is absurd.

 

[Texashiker]

Why don't you go quote some of the other founding fathers on banks and debt? I suggest starting with Alexander Hamilton. He's the yin to Jefferson's yang. Needless to say, the idea that the founders had some sort of cohesive idea on this is absurd.

I was wondering when you were going to pop in and tell me I was wrong.

You made the claim, now back it up, post your own links.

The Constitution makes it very clear who was "supposed" to have the ability to make money, and that was congress. But like a lot of things that right was handed over to the public sector to make money off of.

we take the power to print money away from the federal reserve (a private company), restore it to congress, and our national debt goes away.

Between taxation and the ability to print money, the government needs to borrow every little money.