What? No government shutdown threads?

[fskimospy]

No, it wasn't, not in direct opposition to the 10th Amendment, moron. That wasn't even what the case was about. Try paying attention.

You seriously don't know when to quit, you moron.

The 10th amendment states that powers not given to the federal government are the property of the states or the people.

The ACA (and specifically the individual mandate) was found to be a valid exercise of Congress' taxation power. ie: Congress used one of the powers explicitly reserved for it by the Constitution, therefore the 10th amendment doesn't apply.

You're going to want to stop now before you embarrass yourself any further.

 

[dainthomas]

So if it's so necessary why are any exemptions being written against it?

1. People wanted to get rid of preexisting conditions.
2. The only way to do that is to require coverage, for obvious reasons.

Insurance companies created this mess by dropping people who develop cancer because they had chicken pox or something when they were 5. Now they can no longer do that. As of today, if you have liver cancer or emphysema you can go out and buy health insurance to pay for your treatment. Republicans decided they are against that idea (after they were for it). Hence this situation.

 

[MagickMan]

You seriously don't know when to quit, you moron.

The 10th amendment states that powers not given to the federal government are the property of the states or the people.

The ACA (and specifically the individual mandate) was found to be a valid exercise of Congress' taxation power. ie: Congress used one of the powers explicitly reserved for it by the Constitution, therefore the 10th amendment doesn't apply.

You're going to want to stop now before you embarrass yourself any further.

It was held as Constitutional only as a tax/penalty, not as a whole, because it was never directly challenged. You ever thought about simply getting a fucking clue? You ignorant twat. Tsk, tsk.

 

[Zeze]

Can someone tell me what the hell is the significance of the government 'shutting down'? I don't follow politics.

1. HOW and WHY is it shut down? That makes no sense. Suddenly these branches and museums don't have money for one day? Of course not. So it HAS to be symbolic, yes?

2. WHO told them to shut down? Republicans? Democrats? President?

3. Just what is shut down- DMV? City halls? Some government workers not coming to work?

3. What the hell is the point of the government shutting down? And what are its effects? Is it meant to just piss off average citizens to rile up support?

Thanks.

 

[fskimospy]

It was held as Constitutional only as a tax/penalty, not as a whole, because it was never directly challenged. You ever thought about simply getting a fucking clue? You ignorant twat. Tsk, tsk.

lol. You don't know when to stop digging do you.

Feel free to tell me what provisions of the law you think violate the 10th amendment. Be specific.

I'll be waiting.

 

[Nintendesert]

Can someone tell me what the hell is the significance of the government 'shutting down'? I don't follow politics.

1. HOW and WHY is it shut down? That makes no sense. Suddenly these branches and museums don't have money for one day? Of course not. So it HAS to be symbolic, yes?

2. WHO told them to shut down? Republicans? Democrats? President?

3. Just what is shut down- DMV? City halls? Some government workers not coming to work?

3. What the hell is the point of the government shutting down? And what are its effects? Is it meant to just piss off average citizens to rile up support?

Thanks.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...tions-and-answers-about-the-shutdown/2888419/


:|

 

[dank69]

Can someone tell me what the hell is the significance of the government 'shutting down'? I don't follow politics.

1. HOW and WHY is it shut down? That makes no sense. Suddenly these branches and museums don't have money for one day? Of course not. So it HAS to be symbolic, yes?

The federal government isn't authorized to spend enough money to pay all of its obligations. Therefore, all non-essential parts of the government have been shut down.

2. WHO told them to shut down? Republicans? Democrats? President?

Republicans refuse to authorize more spending unless Obamacare is altered in some way. They started by asking for completely defunding it, then moved on to delaying different parts of it.

3. Just what is shut down- DMV? City halls? Some government workers not coming to work?

Those are local governments. this only effects Federal government.

3. What the hell is the point of the government shutting down? And what are its effects? Is it meant to just piss off average citizens to rile up support?

Thanks.

I'll let others answer this part.

 

[Texashiker]

lol. You don't know when to stop digging do you.

Feel free to tell me what provisions of the law you think violate the 10th amendment. Be specific.

I'll be waiting.

Regardless of what is posted you will come back with the supremacy clause.

So lets go a different route - a free person can not be forced to buy a product. If the government forces the people to buy a product under penalty of law, they are no longer citizens, they are subjects.

That is my opinion, and no, I will not post a link to backup my opinion.

As a citizen I have a right to my own opinion.

 

[MagickMan]

lol. You don't know when to stop digging do you.

Feel free to tell me what provisions of the law you think violate the 10th amendment. Be specific.

I'll be waiting.

(borrowing from another post...)

There is no guarantee the supremacy clause would apply, as health insurance does not leave a state's border, generally speaking. Without tying to interstate commerce the USSC could find for the state, and has in the past.

Is that too tough for you to understand? Do you also need a diagram? Idiot.

Okay, okay, gotta go now, enjoy your ragefest numbnuts.

 

[TerryMathews]

(borrowing from another post...)

There is no guarantee the supremacy clause would apply, as health insurance does not leave a state's border, generally speaking. Without tying to interstate commerce the USSC could find for the state, and has in the past.

Is that too tough for you to understand? Do you also need a diagram? Idiot.

Okay, okay, gotta go now, enjoy your ragefest numbnuts.

Hey, that looks familiar! :thumbup:

 

[dainthomas]

Regardless of what is posted you will come back with the supremacy clause.

So lets go a different route - a free person can not be forced to buy a product. If the government forces the people to buy a product under penalty of law, they are no longer citizens, they are subjects.

That is my opinion, and no, I will not post a link to backup my opinion.

As a citizen I have a right to my own opinion.

That's silliness. People have always been forced to buy things (roads, schools etc. through property and other taxes). I won't go into car insurance since you're technically not forced to buy it (but practically yes, since nearly everyone drives).

 

[fskimospy]

(borrowing from another post...)

There is no guarantee the supremacy clause would apply, as health insurance does not leave a state's border, generally speaking. Without tying to interstate commerce the USSC could find for the state, and has in the past.

Is that too tough for you to understand? Do you also need a diagram? Idiot.

Okay, okay, gotta go now, enjoy your ragefest numbnuts.

That is irrelevant, the mandate to buy health insurance was a tax. The federal government is simply requiring you to buy insurance that meets a certain standard or face a tax. No interstate commerce requirement exists.

Off to civics class with you!

EDIT: Unless you are challenging the federal government's ability to regulate health insurance at all... to which I can only respond: good luck. lol.

 

[TerryMathews]

That's silliness. People have always been forced to buy things (roads, schools etc. through property and other taxes). I won't go into car insurance since you're technically not forced to buy it (but practically yes, since nearly everyone drives).

This is different. Paying through property taxes != compulsory purchase.

I believe the parent post is correct, this is the first time in history that US citizens have been compelled to purchase something by law, setting aside car insurance (driving is a privilege)

 

[Pens1566]

Pity you don't understand how the Supreme Court actually works.

Yeah, it's me that doesn't understand things.

 

[fskimospy]

This is different. Paying through property taxes != compulsory purchase.

I believe the parent post is correct, this is the first time in history that US citizens have been compelled to purchase something by law, setting aside car insurance (driving is a privilege)

That's completely wrong. You know what the first president was who required US citizens to purchase something? George Washington. (Militia Act of 1792)

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

 

[Matt1970]

Republicans refuse to authorize more spending unless Obamacare is altered in some way. They started by asking for completely defunding it, then moved on to delaying different parts of it.

.

The final CR refused by Harry Reid late last night had all the funding requested and only moved the tax mandate back a year and removed the subsidy for congress’s coverage. In other words you just wouldn't be taxed in April 2015, which Obama pledged not to do anyways. You could essentially say the final CR was making Obama keep his word.

 

[dank69]

The final CR refused by Harry Reid late last night had all the funding requested and only moved the tax mandate back a year and removed the subsidy for congress’s coverage. In other words you just wouldn't be taxed in April 2015, which Obama pledged not to do anyways. You could essentially say the final CR was making Obama keep his word.

I suppose if Democrats had agreed to those provisions back when they initially passed the bill it would have had full Republican support.

 

[Matt1970]

That's completely wrong. You know what the first president was who required US citizens to purchase something? George Washington. (Militia Act of 1792)

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

The Militia Act of 1792 was never enforced. Can you cite something more recent?

 

[Matt1970]

I suppose if Democrats had agreed to those provisions back when they initially passed the bill it would have had full Republican support.

I guess we will never know.

 

[fskimospy]

The Militia Act of 1792 was never enforced. Can you cite something more recent?

Why would I need to do that? Terry thought that the ACA was novel in that way when it turns out that a whole bunch of the people who wrote the Constitution and the "Father of our Country" cranked out a similar requirement almost immediately after the country's founding.

You would think that you guys would be extremely interested in how the founding fathers viewed the permissibly of the federal government forcing people to purchase things.

 

[EagleKeeper]

What the republicans are doing this go around is historic its tieing the shut down to a single specific piece of law which they do not have the votes to get repealed.. You are an idiot to try and compare 1-2 day shut downs over nothing to this.

The Tea Party are bunch of obstructionists. If only the sane members of the GOP who were trying to rebel against the tea party nutters could have gotten 17 more votes yesterday. The majority of the GOP and all of the Tea Party are out of touch with the Democratsreality.

The majority of Congress is not Democrats; so apparently the Congressional Democrats) are not representing the will of the people of the United States.

 

[kia75]

So any predictions on just how long the shutdown will last? A day? A week? A month?The military is being funded so the magical 15th of October end date no longer applies. The next big date is the 17th when the debt limit happens.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the shutdown goes on until the 16th. The Tea Party has no way of extracting itself from the shut-down, no way to save face. If they can extend the shutdown until it's time to raise the debt limit then they gain back some bargaining power. I'm predicting a long (2 week) shutdown.

 

[TerryMathews]

That's completely wrong. You know what the first president was who required US citizens to purchase something? George Washington. (Militia Act of 1792)

http://www.constitution.org/mil/mil_act_1792.htm

I was not aware of that one.

Has there been anything more recent? Let's say since the abolition of slavery?

 

[Texashiker]

That's silliness. People have always been forced to buy things (roads, schools etc. through property and other taxes).

Congress has the right to collect taxes.

I won't go into car insurance since you're technically not forced to buy it (but practically yes, since nearly everyone drives).

If you not own a car, or do not drive on public roads you do not have to have insurance.

And, there are exemptions such as being able to drive farm equipment on public roads without insurance.

 

[Jaskalas]

Tell Obama's Dem pals to pass the budget and stop holding America hostage.