What Processor upgrade to help CPU gaming bottlenecks

[unseengundam101]

I have an old i5-2500K with AMD R9 280X GPU. Since my games are bottle-necked by the processor I am considering to upgrade the CPU/MB/RAM. I will be leaving the GPU alone since I doubt it affect my performance much.

I have been considering AMD Ryzen 7 1700x/1800x or Intel i7-8700K/i5-8600k CPUs.

I think some of newer games can use more cores, but not sure if Ryzen's 8 core is going provide any benefits. I know Cities Skylines seems to be very well multi-threaded. Galactic Civ 3, has OK multi-threaded support but I don't think it will really benefit from more than 2 cores.

Meanwhile, my older games are single threaded. HOI3, Total War games, Sins of a Solar Empire, etc. Those seems like the would need highest max turbo performance on a single core, which makes me lean towards Intel CPUs.

Note, I don't think there any GPU bound game that I play. Anyone got any suggestions regarding these CPU bound games?

 

[Markfw]

Well, since the new Ryzens are due out very soon (April ??) I would wait and see. The 8700k is great, except there are still the unknown meltdown patches that may affect speed, and its on a dead platform, where Ryzen is good for the next few generations.

 

[daveybrat]

I'm in the same boat as you. Been waiting to upgrade my i5 4690k.

Like Mark said, the Ryzen 2 cpu's are due out in April and so are the new chipset motherboards, X470, B450. I'm going to wait until then to make my final decision and i recommend you do the same.

 

[LTC8K6]

Well, since the new Ryzens are due out very soon (April ??) I would wait and see. The 8700k is great, except there are still the unknown meltdown patches that may affect speed, and its on a dead platform, where Ryzen is good for the next few generations.

When did 8700K platform die?

 

[Markfw]

When did 8700K platform die?

What future chips are set to work on it ? It was socket 1151, then it was only the 300 series motherboards of that chipset. You think the next set of chips is going to use that ?

 

[ZGR]

Getting good FPS in Sins during end game is impossible. Not even a 5.2 GHz i7 8700k will provide proper frames. Same can be said for all old RTS games.

The games that are single threaded bound love low latency DDR4, but that is pricey.

Ryzen is a great fit because AM4 will have several releases where Intel won't. I love having a motherboard able to support several generations of CPU's, but not everyone finds it too important.

If you are set on the fastest single threaded performance, the i7-8700k is the way to go. You will absolutely want to splurge on some great RAM imo as these old games benefit greatly on either platform.

 

[jpiniero]

What future chips are set to work on it ?

Intel's good for two gens usually...

I would say the most effective route would be getting a hold of a 2600K or 3770K and overclocking it. If you get it to high 4's you would pretty much be at Ryzen gaming performance without having to buy new ram. Might be tough to get one at a good deal though.

 

[moonbogg]

People recommend the 8700K, but if you need single thread performance, you can save money and get the 8600K instead. 6 cores without hyper threading is more than enough for older games and enough for any others these days as well, although a few games will max all those cores out already. For single thread performance I'd forget anything Ryzen based, either now or in the near future. Hate to say it but its just the truth. Not with modern Intel chips floating around 5ghz. Ryzen's mesh simply reks gaming performance and even if they improve the mesh, it won't help it to compete with a 4.8ghz easy OC'd 8600K with that good old ring bus and fast ram. Forget it.

 

[Yuriman]

Intel's good for two gens usually...

I would say the most effective route would be getting a hold of a 2600K or 3770K and overclocking it. If you get it to high 4's you would pretty much be at Ryzen gaming performance without having to buy new ram. Might be tough to get one at a good deal though.

1151 has had 3 generations of CPUs, and presumably 8th gen is the last.

@Those suggesting Ryzen, it would not surprise me if AMD did not match the 8700K's per-core performance (clockspeed + IPC) even after two more generations. Ryzen is set to have a refresh which likely will not affect IPC and only minorly clockspeed. Buying an 8700K today may not get you 8 cores, but my money is on its per-core performance being equivalent or better to what AMD will be offering in 2-3 years.

 

[jpiniero]

1151 has had 3 generations of CPUs, and presumably 8th gen is the last.

You almost have to think of 1151v2 as a different socket. The second gen is probably Coffee Lake Refresh though so not much of an improvement other than the additional 2 cores and maybe stock turbo.

 

[Yuriman]

You almost have to think of 1151v2 as a different socket. The second gen is probably Coffee Lake Refresh though so not much of an improvement other than the additional 2 cores and maybe stock turbo.

CFL is still basically Skylake, on tweaked 14nm, with more cores. Third time with the same architecture, nearly the same process - we haven't had that before. You can even modify some 1151 boards to accept some CFL processors.

 

[Roger Wilco]

8600K or 8700K.

 

[NTMBK]

What's your current memory speed? If you've got something relatively slow like DDR3-1066, you might be well served by an upgrade to DDR3-1600 and an i7-3770k. Boosts your base clock and your turbo clock, increases memory bandwidth, and gives you 33% more L3 cache.

 

[Burpo]

Cheap solution is to drop in an i7 3770..
$125 on ebay..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core...SwP69alz8e:sc:USPSFirstClass!33772!US!-1#rwid

 

[nathanddrews]

Cheap solution is to drop in an i7 3770..
$125 on ebay..
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Intel-Core...SwP69alz8e:sc:USPSFirstClass!33772!US!-1#rwid

3770K would be the better choice, but they're still kind of expensive. I've been tempted to upgrade one of my 2500K machines, but I can't justify it.

 

[Burpo]

I upgraded a Gateway i5 2400 Mini-tower with a Xeon E3 1280v2 awhile back, and am VERY happy with how it runs. Got mine cheap @ $100 + shipping, but they're pricey & scarce now..

 

[Topweasel]

Intel's good for two gens usually...

I would say the most effective route would be getting a hold of a 2600K or 3770K and overclocking it. If you get it to high 4's you would pretty much be at Ryzen gaming performance without having to buy new ram. Might be tough to get one at a good deal though.

Expect they change sockets on process shrinks and arch changes. Intel explained away having to change the socket even though neither of those happened because "power" when adding the two cores. They will do the same with Cannon Lake (is that the right one I have problem with the 10nm permutations), or they will have a Coffeelake refresh like Devils Canyon. Either way the next CPU actually worth upgrading even for the hardcore won't be on that platform.

 

[Topweasel]

1151 has had 3 generations of CPUs, and presumably 8th gen is the last.

@Those suggesting Ryzen, it would not surprise me if AMD did not match the 8700K's per-core performance (clockspeed + IPC) even after two more generations. Ryzen is set to have a refresh which likely will not affect IPC and only minorly clockspeed. Buying an 8700K today may not get you 8 cores, but my money is on its per-core performance being equivalent or better to what AMD will be offering in 2-3 years.

You are probably right on Ryzen. I know a lot of people that would like AMD to really contend there, but AMD might be more worried about increased core application now that they have near parity to make any major changes to the arch just to catch up. That said, just because Intel who has been maintaining about 5-6% increase in IPC a year for the last 8 years, doesn't mean that once you get to this level arch development drops off. I don't expect Zen+ to have much growth, but that was never really supposed to be anything as a temporary hold over till they could start banging new die designs out with Zen 2 and Zen 3 which again may not have great IPC jumps, but there is actual potential for it there.

 

[unseengundam101]

What's your current memory speed? If you've got something relatively slow like DDR3-1066, you might be well served by an upgrade to DDR3-1600 and an i7-3770k. Boosts your base clock and your turbo clock, increases memory bandwidth, and gives you 33% more L3 cache.

I got some G.Skill DDR3-1866, with CAS 9 latency. I don't think I have seen a DDR4 with lower than 15 latency.

3770K would be the better choice, but they're still kind of expensive. I've been tempted to upgrade one of my 2500K machines, but I can't justify it.

Interesting, both of you guys suggest i7-3770Ks. Any idea how they compare with old i5-2500k?

Also, how are is it going to compare to newer platforms (Ryzen & Coffee Lake)? Some benchmarks seem to suggestion newer platform can give 2 times performance of my old i5-2500k. So not sure if I want dump more $$$ in old 1155 platform..

 

[Markfw]

I don't think I have seen a DDR4 with lower than 15 latency..

Cas14 is quite popular with the Ryzen crowd. I have 4 sets of it, DDR4 PC 3200 cas 14,14,14,14,34

 

[frozentundra123456]

I got some G.Skill DDR3-1866, with CAS 9 latency. I don't think I have seen a DDR4 with lower than 15 latency.





Interesting, both of you guys suggest i7-3770Ks. Any idea how they compare with old i5-2500k?

Also, how are is it going to compare to newer platforms (Ryzen & Coffee Lake)? Some benchmarks seem to suggestion newer platform can give 2 times performance of my old i5-2500k. So not sure if I want dump more $$$ in old 1155 platform..

You might get 2x the performance in productivity apps that can make full use of hyperthreading and all the extra cores, but I doubt you would see 2x the performance in gaming. Just looked at your original post. For sure you wont get 2x performance increase with a 280x.

 

[epsilon84]

I got some G.Skill DDR3-1866, with CAS 9 latency. I don't think I have seen a DDR4 with lower than 15 latency.

Interesting, both of you guys suggest i7-3770Ks. Any idea how they compare with old i5-2500k?

Also, how are is it going to compare to newer platforms (Ryzen & Coffee Lake)? Some benchmarks seem to suggestion newer platform can give 2 times performance of my old i5-2500k. So not sure if I want dump more $$$ in old 1155 platform..

I actually upgraded to a 3770K from a 2500K, and it made a big difference to the games that I play (a lot of the newer games play better with 8 threads) though I must say if your older games are mostly single threaded then a 2500K to 3770K would only yield marginal increases as the IPC improvement between Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge isn't that great. Heck, even from a 2500K to a 8700K you are probably only looking at a 25% jump in single threaded performance at the same clocks, though on average Coffee Lake does clock slightly higher than Sandy Bridge, so realistically you're looking at a 30 - 35% difference in single threaded games, still not a huge margin though.

This also practically rules out Ryzen as an option because in terms of single threaded performance, a 2500K @ 4.5GHz isn't that much different to a Ryzen @ 4GHz, it would be a sidegrade basically. It'll dominate the 2500K in more recent AAA titles of course, but in older single threaded games it's not worth it as an 'upgrade'.

 

[nathanddrews]

Interesting, both of you guys suggest i7-3770Ks. Any idea how they compare with old i5-2500k?

Also, how are is it going to compare to newer platforms (Ryzen & Coffee Lake)? Some benchmarks seem to suggestion newer platform can give 2 times performance of my old i5-2500k. So not sure if I want dump more $$$ in old 1155 platform..

My post that you quoted contains a DigitalFoundry comparison video answering your first question as it pertains to gaming. As to the second question, it really depends on your needs and budget. Realistically this would be a whole new build, not an upgrade. ~$150 to upgrade your current setup with a used 3770K vs. at least $400 for a new CPU and motherboard. Tack on another $120-250 for DDR4 RAM... At this point, it seems like a waste to not get an NVME SSD...

 

[DrMrLordX]

What future chips are set to work on it ? It was socket 1151, then it was only the 300 series motherboards of that chipset. You think the next set of chips is going to use that ?

We don't really know a lot about what future chips Intel will sell (or on what platform), particularly when it comes to whatever will replace the 8700k as Intel's desktop flagship. It doesn't help that Intel essentially refuses to tell us this information. I think it's safe to assume that Intel will roll out a new platform for desktop Icelake in 2019, but that's all we can assume for the time being.

Given the OP's preference for single-threaded titles, it is fairly safe to assume that an 8700k running at a high clockspeed with fast RAM would be his best bet. As much as I want Pinnacle Ridge to work out for AMD, I do not think we'll see it challenge a 5.0+ GHz 8700k running old RTS titles. Who knows, maybe AMD will surprise us all, but I doubt it. AMD will close the gap some, though.

 

[TheELF]

As much as I want Pinnacle Ridge to work out for AMD, I do not think we'll see it challenge a 5.0+ GHz 8700k running old RTS titles. Who knows, maybe AMD will surprise us all, but I doubt it. AMD will close the gap some, though.

It's not even funny how far behind zen is compared to intel in those kind of games...
Remember folks, cinebench is not a game.

Here is the link to the youtube video