What speaker setup looks best? - Updated

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Feb 6, 2007
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Originally posted by: Howard
- toe the speakers in so that their axes cross in front of the listening position - this lowers the amplitude of the earliest reflections which can be detrimental to sound quality and imaging (depends on the room shape and dimensions though)

I did a bit of research on speaker placement when setting up my home theater, and I've done a bit more after reading this statement, and I have to say that the only person I've seen recommend setting the speaker toe-in infront of the listening position is you. Where did you get this information? I'm willing to concede the point, I'm just curious as I cannot find a single guide that suggests this.

For reference:
Recommendation 1:

Adjust the position of the target itself to correlate with the speaker manufacturers recommendation for where the speaker output should intersect. Speakers requiring a large amount of toe-in will intersect at or just behind the listener, that point moves further back when less toe-in is indicated. Some manufacturers are adamant regarding the amount of toe-in, others are less specific in their recommendations. In general, more toe-in increases center focus, but reducing stage width. Less toe-in widens the stage, but center focus will be sacrificed if you go too far. Sometimes it's a balancing act based on the room, the speaker and the preference of the listener.
Recommendation 2:

There is no 'general' home theater speaker placement rule in that this depends on a number of factors. In particular, it depends on the sound dispersion pattern of the speakers in question.
Everything else I found merely reinforced the idea that toe-in was completely dependent on the speaker, so you should check the manufacturer's recommendation or experiment yourself with what sounded best. The only article that mentioned positioning at all placed the toe-in at or behind the listening position, not in front of it. Where did you find that the ideal toe-in was in front of the listening position? Is it specific to the speaker you use, and would it apply in the OP's scenario?

I'm not trying to call you out, I'm legitimately curious. My home theater room is being redone, at which point I will start setting things up again, and I hadn't considered speaker toe-in to the degree you suggest. I'll probably keep it wide just because I want the expanded soundstage for when company is over, but I still like to experiment with new things.
 

Lumathix

Golden Member
Mar 16, 2004
1,686
0
46
Dude that center channel below the TV is annoying as hell. that would bug the crap out of me.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,821
29,578
146
Originally posted by: EvilYoda
2, I hate those grills. Naked speakers FTW.

I started with this (I also have the cherry R50s), but ended with the grills on. Mostly to mollify the GF and manage dust.

I prefer without, but I also feel that the naked speakers "intrude" on the actual image.
 

cpals

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2001
4,494
0
76
Originally posted by: zinfamous
Originally posted by: EvilYoda
2, I hate those grills. Naked speakers FTW.

I started with this (I also have the cherry R50s), but ended with the grills on. Mostly to mollify the GF and manage dust.

I prefer without, but I also feel that the naked speakers "intrude" on the actual image.

Do you have a center/rears? If so, what brand/model? In the future I'd like to get something better..

Thanks.
 

SlickSnake

Diamond Member
May 29, 2007
5,237
2
0
Originally posted by: sdifox
Originally posted by: SlickSnake
I do not like your speakers covers. I don't really like the covers on my Interludes, either, but generally I use mine, so don't feel too bad. The towers covers on yours that wrap around the base look really tacky, and I would ditch the covers on those. And the placement is bad on the towers as others have said. But I would leave the cover on the anemic 2 way center channel and flip it upside down and place it behind the TV offset a little on one side or the other so the tweeter isn't totally blocked by the base, and move the TV forwards. Just up the volume a little on the center channel to compensate for being behind the TV. I placed my center behind my TV in my bedroom HT and above the TV in the living room HT.

Seriously though, I would consider buying a matching step up 3 way center channel, if it's available. 2 way center channels generally are just really weak on the crisp dialoge you want a center channel for. But you could use that 2 way for a center behind you in a 6.1 configuration, and the fact it don't match wouldn't even be an issue. Or mount the center just above the TV on a small shelf, or on a large one if you want to put other stuff on it.

And the HD-DVD player is ROCKIN! :thumbsup:

Please explain why you think a 3-way would do better than a 2 way in this application. Also, why would you use a mismatched rear centre? Whole point to a middle centre is to provide smoother rear panning, yet you don't want it timbre matched to the rear speakers?

Firstly, he's got a color mismatched 2 way center, not a timber/speaker mismatched one, correct? Obviously, it would work suitably for a rear center in a 6.1 configuration and the fact it did not color match the fronts would not be as much of a cosmetic issue, correct?

Secondly, a 3 way center upgrade (if it matched his speakers model for timber or drivers) would vastly improve both his dialog and midrange effects, which is the whole point of the center on HT. Most of the dialog is centered in the center speaker, obviously. And placing his tower speakers properly will only make his 2 way center sound even more anemic that it already does. I can assure you without even hearing that speaker setup, that center channel is not sufficient. Those 2 way centers are intended for low priced front center purchases or rear surround sound use. No low end center channels that are 2 way are sufficient on midrange reproduction that I have ever heard. And even many 2 way mid priced speakers has problems in this area, including the 2 way Interlude center I have. But the 3 way Interlude center sounds far superior to it, and was rated as one of the best sounding centers ever made in its price range when it was released. And there are also other technical reasons why 2 way centers are not preferable that I won't even bother to go into here about.

And if he hides the center behind the HDTV and uses an improved 3 way one it will sound vastly better than blocking and redirecting part of the sound field of the anemic 2 way one. I am currently partly blocking a 3 way Infinity Beta center behind a 46 inch LCD in the bedroom HT. The center started out both in front of and under the TV, which was not acceptable for various reasons, like the TV too tall, or blocking the TV sensors. And the sound from the 3 way center did not deteriorate noticeably by being behind the TV, other than a bit of a lower volume. But the sound from the 2 way center really suffered from this behind the TV placement. In fact, behind the TV with the 3 way the reflected portion of the sound seemed to make the center seem like it had a broader sound field separation, which was a bit of an unexpected bonus. Of course, I did have to kick up the center channel one setting on the volume to compensate for the placement, which was no big deal.

And I did also recommend if he hides the 2 way center behind the TV, to flip it upside down with the tweeter on the bottom so it won't block the tweeter with the TV and offset it a little bit from the center of the TV stand support depending on what side he usually sits on. But the placement behind the TV will require some fine tuning. He may prefer the sound with the speaker right side up, and having the tweeter reflecting off the back of the TV, too. But he will have to experiment and crank up the center at least one setting on his volume to compensate.
 

cpals

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2001
4,494
0
76
Slicksnake, thanks for all the tips. I did research when I was first purchasing my 'on-a-budget' speaker system last year and that was what a lot people came up with. As you can see, the fronts are Polk R50s, which I will probably keep for a while. The center, I thought was decent too since it actually cost more than what I paid for one of the R50s. The center is a Polk CSi25, which from reading would match up somewhat decently with the R50s. What would be a matched center for my fronts if this was is not and also what's the difference between a 2-way and a 3-way and is it really that noticeable?

Thanks... this is a great learning process!
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
Originally posted by: cpals
Slicksnake, thanks for all the tips. I did research when I was first purchasing my 'on-a-budget' speaker system last year and that was what a lot people came up with. As you can see, the fronts are Polk R50s, which I will probably keep for a while. The center, I thought was decent too since it actually cost more than what I paid for one of the R50s. The center is a Polk CSi25, which from reading would match up somewhat decently with the R50s. What would be a matched center for my fronts if this was is not and also what's the difference between a 2-way and a 3-way and is it really that noticeable?

Thanks... this is a great learning process!

Do not listen to Slicksnake, he has no clue what he's talking about.

Sounds like you're unfortunately stuck with that tv stand(paid way too much for it imho). Anyways, I like where you finally located your speakers but tweak over time for that sweet spot.

You really need to do something about the placement of the center channel speaker. Absolutely distracting where it's located. I would get a wall bracket and mount it right above your tv. Or at worse, place it on a stand on top of your receiver.

A 3-way speaker will have a separate tweeter, midrange and woofer speakers providing you a wider range of sounds. If you're happy with your current sound, no need to replace your center channel.
 

dmw16

Diamond Member
Nov 12, 2000
7,608
0
0
I don't like the center channel sitting there kinda blocking the bottom of the TV depending on your seating location, but that is just me.
 

JulesMaximus

No Lifer
Jul 3, 2003
74,472
867
126
Originally posted by: OpenThirdEye
Follow Howard's advice...and also do something with that center channel. Can you mount it on the wall/make a shelf for it and hide the cable behind the wall? Not only would it look better, but it'll sound a bit better as well!

Maybe put something under the TV to move it up a few inches so that the speaker isn't blocking part of the TV. My TV is on a stand that is open in the front with a glass top. My center channel speaker is pretty big so it sits on the first shelf under the TV. The receiver is under that to the left and my blu-ray player and DVR are on the right.
 
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