What the fvck is wrong with the Catholics?

[Fritzo]

I'm a Catholic and hate stories blown out of proportion like this. I'm sure they'll come up with a compromise, it's just that the people they this lady is talking to don't have to power to change the rules. Calm down.


Also, to the guy that said he's not a practicing Catholic- if you're not practicing, you're not a Catholic.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Sophia
Back to the original article,

[The] mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition should not exclude her from the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion. The mother believes a rice Communion wafer would suffice.

Setting aside the whole issue of wheat-only hosts, how is she being "excluded from the sacrament?" Catholic communion is 100% valid under the species of wine only. The diocese made this option available, and the mother turned it down.

this is one of the few sane posts in this thread, but you'd have to be Catholic to know it.

Most people in ATOT talk out their asses and think they know everything, when in reality they dont. As mentioned in the quoted text, wine is a perfectly acceptible substitute, but the mother didnt allow it.


Just to go off on a bit of a tangent, I really fvcking hate threads like this. The title is meant to enrage all Catholics to get them to post, and get all the Catholic bashers to say "YEAH SEE I TOLD YOU RELIGION IZ 4 SHEEP" and come in and post that. Instead of posting a tame thread like "What's the deal with this?" and honestly questioning what happened, you immediately turn it into Side A vs Side B. Of course, the article itself lends to that as well, so Shinerburke may have just been played by the AP. It happens in these forums all the time and honestly, it's almost not worth hanging around to hear some teenagers spout what they think they know about religion.

You children should remember: Religion and Politics are two things people are very passionate about. Dont discuss them in mixed company.

What is funny about your post is that it seems perfectly OK with you that the catholic church can continue to put these rules and regulations over how it is you worship christ and how it is you need to practice your faith.

water/wine/wheat/rice/tofu/grape juice whatever, why does it have to matter to begin with?

But I understand the other poster that stated that the catholic church is like a country with its own rules and regulations, but WHY does it have to be that way? why do you have to abide by these rules of faith? since when did what you BELIEVE IN ever have to have rules?

no I am not an expert in catholicism, I can safely bet none of us are. But I know what I believe in, that I am an expert of, that is why catholicism means nothing to me anymore.


these arguments go nowhere, but I am thankful that we can have them so have a happy friday!

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Sophia
Back to the original article,

[The] mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition should not exclude her from the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion. The mother believes a rice Communion wafer would suffice.

Setting aside the whole issue of wheat-only hosts, how is she being "excluded from the sacrament?" Catholic communion is 100% valid under the species of wine only. The diocese made this option available, and the mother turned it down.

this is one of the few sane posts in this thread, but you'd have to be Catholic to know it.

Most people in ATOT talk out their asses and think they know everything, when in reality they dont. As mentioned in the quoted text, wine is a perfectly acceptible substitute, but the mother didnt allow it.


Just to go off on a bit of a tangent, I really fvcking hate threads like this. The title is meant to enrage all Catholics to get them to post, and get all the Catholic bashers to say "YEAH SEE I TOLD YOU RELIGION IZ 4 SHEEP" and come in and post that. Instead of posting a tame thread like "What's the deal with this?" and honestly questioning what happened, you immediately turn it into Side A vs Side B. Of course, the article itself lends to that as well, so Shinerburke may have just been played by the AP. It happens in these forums all the time and honestly, it's almost not worth hanging around to hear some teenagers spout what they think they know about religion.

You children should remember: Religion and Politics are two things people are very passionate about. Dont discuss them in mixed company.

Here's a ladder....now get off your high horse.

Shove your ladder, because he's right. 99.9% of the people here would never have the b@lls to say the things in here to a person's face.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: OrByte
What is funny about your post is that it seems perfectly OK with you that the catholic church can continue to put these rules and regulations over how it is you worship christ and how it is you need to practice your faith.

water/wine/wheat/rice/tofu/grape juice whatever, why does it have to matter to begin with?

But I understand the other poster that stated that the catholic church is like a country with its own rules and regulations, but WHY does it have to be that way? why do you have to abide by these rules of faith? since when did what you BELIEVE IN ever have to have rules?

no I am not an expert in catholicism, I can safely bet none of us are. But I know what I believe in, that I am an expert of, that is why catholicism means nothing to me anymore.


these arguments go nowhere, but I am thankful that we can have them so have a happy friday!

Honestly mate, I didnt post anything about my personal feeling on my own religion or faith. But you are correct about the "it doesnt matter what you eat". The host and the wine are just what has been used over the years because it's representative of what Jesus used at the Last Supper, but the honest truth is it really doesnt matter what it is made of. Our belief is that the host actually turns into the body, and the wine actually turns into the blood of Christ.

The rules are in place simply as a methodology of worship. By following the rules, you are in essence leading a better life... and is there really anything wrong with trying to be a better person?

I'm not an expert either.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
Shove your ladder, because he's right. 99.9% of the people here would never have the b@lls to say the things in here to a person's face.

Hey Fritzo, I appreciate the backup. :beer:

 

[NakaNaka]

Originally posted by: shinerburke
My best friend is a Catholic and the sh1t they come up with just blows my mind........she and I have had several long talks about her religion and I always end up with a MASSIVE headache

Never ever try having a religious discussion with a Catholic. Makes me want to smash some sense into them.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: OrByte
What is funny about your post is that it seems perfectly OK with you that the catholic church can continue to put these rules and regulations over how it is you worship christ and how it is you need to practice your faith.

water/wine/wheat/rice/tofu/grape juice whatever, why does it have to matter to begin with?

But I understand the other poster that stated that the catholic church is like a country with its own rules and regulations, but WHY does it have to be that way? why do you have to abide by these rules of faith? since when did what you BELIEVE IN ever have to have rules?

no I am not an expert in catholicism, I can safely bet none of us are. But I know what I believe in, that I am an expert of, that is why catholicism means nothing to me anymore.


these arguments go nowhere, but I am thankful that we can have them so have a happy friday!

Honestly mate, I didnt post anything about my personal feeling on my own religion or faith. But you are correct about the "it doesnt matter what you eat". The host and the wine are just what has been used over the years because it's representative of what Jesus used at the Last Supper, but the honest truth is it really doesnt matter what it is made of. Our belief is that the host actually turns into the body, and the wine actually turns into the blood of Christ.

The rules are in place simply as a methodology of worship. By following the rules, you are in essence leading a better life... and is there really anything wrong with trying to be a better person?

I'm not an expert either.

well I appreciate where you are coming from on this issue but I have to disagree where you claim that it "honestly doesn't matter" because it did to someone, otherwise this little girl that was denied communion would be united in faith with her family...and today that isnt the case.

whether it was a priest, bishop, arch bishop, pope or whomever, someone didn't like the idea of her not following the rules and its up to the folks within that community/parish to ask the hard question..WHY.

I know all about the body and blood of christ. I will talk about my personal feeling of my faith because its just an internet board for crying out loud Where I go to church there is no euchurist (sp?) there is no wine.

there is only pita bread and grape juice. One way is not better than the other, at least, it shouldnt be....

 

[gopunk]

i have no affection for catholics, but at least they're not as bad as born-agains or any of those "charismatic" sects

 

[Fritzo]

What is funny about your post is that it seems perfectly OK with you that the catholic church can continue to put these rules and regulations over how it is you worship christ and how it is you need to practice your faith.

water/wine/wheat/rice/tofu/grape juice whatever, why does it have to matter to begin with?

But I understand the other poster that stated that the catholic church is like a country with its own rules and regulations, but WHY does it have to be that way? why do you have to abide by these rules of faith? since when did what you BELIEVE IN ever have to have rules?

no I am not an expert in catholicism, I can safely bet none of us are. But I know what I believe in, that I am an expert of, that is why catholicism means nothing to me anymore.


these arguments go nowhere, but I am thankful that we can have them so have a happy friday!

These rules were all based upon tradition from the last 2000 years. Catholicism is the original Christian religion and it's practices were pretty much set directly from Jesus and the Apostles themselves. Sacraments were taken from examples set by Christ, and the Catholic mass is a reenactment of the Last Supper. I beleive the Council of Trent laid down the exact rules over how these sacraments need to be observed. Without exact rules, little changes here and there are made, then before you know it, the tradition is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than it's original intention.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

What is funny about your post is that it seems perfectly OK with you that the catholic church can continue to put these rules and regulations over how it is you worship christ and how it is you need to practice your faith.

water/wine/wheat/rice/tofu/grape juice whatever, why does it have to matter to begin with?

But I understand the other poster that stated that the catholic church is like a country with its own rules and regulations, but WHY does it have to be that way? why do you have to abide by these rules of faith? since when did what you BELIEVE IN ever have to have rules?

no I am not an expert in catholicism, I can safely bet none of us are. But I know what I believe in, that I am an expert of, that is why catholicism means nothing to me anymore.


these arguments go nowhere, but I am thankful that we can have them so have a happy friday!

These rules were all based upon tradition from the last 2000 years. Catholicism is the original Christian religion and it's practices were pretty much set directly from Jesus and the Apostles themselves. Sacraments were taken from examples set by Christ, and the Catholic mass is a reenactment of the Last Supper. I beleive the Council of Trent laid down the exact rules over how these sacraments need to be observed. Without exact rules, little changes here and there are made, then before you know it, the tradition is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than it's original intention.

So, in that case, tradition dictates that this little girl cannot participate in the sacrament of communion because of her allergies, which is no ones fault.

What does the catholic tradition have to say in regards to that? better question...what if she was sitting there at the last supper with Jesus and the apostles? what then?

you see why tradition is not the right answer? tradition can only take you so far.

and the original intent (from what I understand of the sacrament of communion) is to share the body and blood of Christ and to always know that he sacrificed himself for the sins of everyone. How does changing tradition for the sake of one little girl change the original intention of the sacrament? is there no flexibility? Having been raised catholic, my own experienced taught me that there wasn't any flexibility.

It's sad because the Catholic church can do many simple things such as this, to help erase the attitude of many. That attitude is that it is archaic, and overbearing. In this instance, they could have taken steps forward instead of steps back.

 

[Injury]

Originally posted by: OrByte
What is funny about your post is that it seems perfectly OK with you that the catholic church can continue to put these rules and regulations over how it is you worship christ and how it is you need to practice your faith.

water/wine/wheat/rice/tofu/grape juice whatever, why does it have to matter to begin with?

But I understand the other poster that stated that the catholic church is like a country with its own rules and regulations, but WHY does it have to be that way? why do you have to abide by these rules of faith? since when did what you BELIEVE IN ever have to have rules?

no I am not an expert in catholicism, I can safely bet none of us are. But I know what I believe in, that I am an expert of, that is why catholicism means nothing to me anymore.

Because of the fact that catholcism is one of the largest religions in the world, it has been set up so that all people have no question as to how to practice it. While you may find some variance in style, one Catholic mass is run in the same manner from country to country. It's not a way of controlling or ordering people, it is a way of ensuring that all Catholics do not have to question who is right and who is wrong should someone not understand the Catholic standpoint of an issue.

I may be wrong, but I believe that the Vatican was started at the tail end of the Roman empire, after decades of religious fueds and breaking apart of the church because of disagreements between individual's beliefs.

It is your job to get yourself to heaven, if you so believe in it and wish to be there one day. It is the church's job to help you if you believe you need that help.

 

[shiner]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: shinerburke

Originally posted by: Modeps

Originally posted by: Spamela

Originally posted by: Sophia
Back to the original article,

[The] mother is pushing the Diocese of Trenton and the Vatican to make an exception, saying the girl's condition should not exclude her from the sacrament, which commemorates the Last Supper of Jesus Christ before his crucifixion. The mother believes a rice Communion wafer would suffice.

Setting aside the whole issue of wheat-only hosts, how is she being "excluded from the sacrament?" Catholic communion is 100% valid under the species of wine only. The diocese made this option available, and the mother turned it down.

this is one of the few sane posts in this thread, but you'd have to be Catholic to know it.

Most people in ATOT talk out their asses and think they know everything, when in reality they dont. As mentioned in the quoted text, wine is a perfectly acceptible substitute, but the mother didnt allow it.


Just to go off on a bit of a tangent, I really fvcking hate threads like this. The title is meant to enrage all Catholics to get them to post, and get all the Catholic bashers to say "YEAH SEE I TOLD YOU RELIGION IZ 4 SHEEP" and come in and post that. Instead of posting a tame thread like "What's the deal with this?" and honestly questioning what happened, you immediately turn it into Side A vs Side B. Of course, the article itself lends to that as well, so Shinerburke may have just been played by the AP. It happens in these forums all the time and honestly, it's almost not worth hanging around to hear some teenagers spout what they think they know about religion.

You children should remember: Religion and Politics are two things people are very passionate about. Dont discuss them in mixed company.

Here's a ladder....now get off your high horse.

Shove your ladder, because he's right. 99.9% of the people here would never have the b@lls to say the things in here to a person's face.

I say them all the time to my best friend who is a Catholic....have had some raging arguments with her and her entire family.

 

[DougK62]

Funny watching Christians fight about their sects and putting others down. So much for that love that Jebus preached...

 

[Injury]

"This is a church rule, not God's will, and it can easily be adjusted to meet the needs of the people, while staying true to the traditions of our faith," Pelly-Waldman wrote in the letter.

Pelly-Waldman -- who is still attending Mass every Sunday with her four children -- said she is not out to bash the church, just to change the policy that affects her daughter.

The woman herself said she isn't bashing the church, but it seems that many people here consider this article grounds enough to do that.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: DougK62
Funny watching Christians fight about their sects and putting others down. So much for that love that Jebus preached...

same could be said for every other religion in every other time of mankind.

hey, its only religion

 

[Stark]

once upon a time a thread like this would be a challenging, engaging debate between two opposing views.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Injury

"This is a church rule, not God's will, and it can easily be adjusted to meet the needs of the people, while staying true to the traditions of our faith," Pelly-Waldman wrote in the letter.

Pelly-Waldman -- who is still attending Mass every Sunday with her four children -- said she is not out to bash the church, just to change the policy that affects her daughter.

The woman herself said she isn't bashing the church, but it seems that many people here consider this article grounds enough to do that.

I take the same position as that woman, I can't speak for others intentions.

AND the catholic church, in instances such as these, makes itself a REALLLY easy target for bashing.

questions: If you were the priest of that church, what would you have done?

 

[Fritzo]

The girl is not being denied practicing the sacrament, she's being denied receiving the host because the diocese does not have the power to change the rules. Do you actually think the priests are enjoying this? They've got to follow the letter of the law, exactly the way a judge does. A judge does not have the power to change a law no matter how much he disagrees with it. The pope would actually have to OK a change in the sacrament- it would be a really big deal and probably take months (if not years).

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Fritzo
The girl is not being denied practicing the sacrament, she's being denied receiving the host because the diocese does not have the power to change the rules. Do you actually think the priests are enjoying this? They've got to follow the letter of the law, exactly the way a judge does. A judge does not have the power to change a law no matter how much he disagrees with it. The pope would actually have to OK a change in the sacrament- it would be a really big deal and probably take months (if not years).

ahh but now you are splitting hairs.

And priests have been known to enjoy some rather startling (and disturbing) things before....

ok now I AM bashing the church.....sigh.

HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE!

 

[Ynog]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Fritzo

What is funny about your post is that it seems perfectly OK with you that the catholic church can continue to put these rules and regulations over how it is you worship christ and how it is you need to practice your faith.

water/wine/wheat/rice/tofu/grape juice whatever, why does it have to matter to begin with?

But I understand the other poster that stated that the catholic church is like a country with its own rules and regulations, but WHY does it have to be that way? why do you have to abide by these rules of faith? since when did what you BELIEVE IN ever have to have rules?

no I am not an expert in catholicism, I can safely bet none of us are. But I know what I believe in, that I am an expert of, that is why catholicism means nothing to me anymore.


these arguments go nowhere, but I am thankful that we can have them so have a happy friday!

These rules were all based upon tradition from the last 2000 years. Catholicism is the original Christian religion and it's practices were pretty much set directly from Jesus and the Apostles themselves. Sacraments were taken from examples set by Christ, and the Catholic mass is a reenactment of the Last Supper. I beleive the Council of Trent laid down the exact rules over how these sacraments need to be observed. Without exact rules, little changes here and there are made, then before you know it, the tradition is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than it's original intention.

So, in that case, tradition dictates that this little girl cannot participate in the sacrament of communion because of her allergies, which is no ones fault.

What does the catholic tradition have to say in regards to that? better question...what if she was sitting there at the last supper with Jesus and the apostles? what then?

you see why tradition is not the right answer? tradition can only take you so far.

and the original intent (from what I understand of the sacrament of communion) is to share the body and blood of Christ and to always know that he sacrificed himself for the sins of everyone. How does changing tradition for the sake of one little girl change the original intention of the sacrament? is there no flexibility? Having been raised catholic, my own experienced taught me that there wasn't any flexibility.

It's sad because the Catholic church can do many simple things such as this, to help erase the attitude of many. That attitude is that it is archaic, and overbearing. In this instance, they could have taken steps forward instead of steps back.

Seeing Catholic communion is 100% valid under the species of wine only. I'd say they are flexible. The church
offered wine. It was refused. To be honest, I think this is more of an attempt for the mother to bring attention to the
situation. By the way, only in the main stream news will something like this get Vatican attention. While thats probably
wrong, its the only way. A local priest would have a hard time trying to petition the Vatican to make a decision
on this topic.

As for the priest, I think the orginal priest made the right decision on not allowing it to go with the rice wafer.
If I was the priest I would have asked the local diocese the current position and gone by that ruling.

 

[blakeatwork]

Originally posted by: Stark
once upon a time a thread like this would be a challenging, engaging debate between two opposing views.

Only if there just two people involved..

it's too easy for someone to jump in on one side or the other, without bothering of doing some reading or explanation...

it's a big pitchfork and torches mentality sometimes... I bash Catholics, and religion in geeneral, but having grown up in a Catholic home, I'm allowed to bash Catholics...

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Fritzo
The girl is not being denied practicing the sacrament, she's being denied receiving the host because the diocese does not have the power to change the rules. Do you actually think the priests are enjoying this? They've got to follow the letter of the law, exactly the way a judge does. A judge does not have the power to change a law no matter how much he disagrees with it. The pope would actually have to OK a change in the sacrament- it would be a really big deal and probably take months (if not years).

ahh but now you are splitting hairs.

And priests have been known to enjoy some rather startling (and disturbing) things before....

ok now I AM bashing the church.....sigh.

HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE!

*sigh* Gee...that wasn't dug into the ground :roll:

This discussion was refering to things the priests are SUPPOSED to be doing.

 

[Modeps]

Originally posted by: blakeatwork
it's a big pitchfork and torches mentality sometimes... I bash Catholics, and religion in geeneral, but having grown up in a Catholic home, I'm allowed to bash Catholics...

Your statement reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where that guy converts to Judaism because the jokes were better.

 

[CastorTroy747]

Religion can bring the best as well at the worse out of people. I used to to be Catholic. As for right now, I do believe in God, but I dont believe in Religion.

 

[OrByte]

Originally posted by: Fritzo

Originally posted by: OrByte

Originally posted by: Fritzo
The girl is not being denied practicing the sacrament, she's being denied receiving the host because the diocese does not have the power to change the rules. Do you actually think the priests are enjoying this? They've got to follow the letter of the law, exactly the way a judge does. A judge does not have the power to change a law no matter how much he disagrees with it. The pope would actually have to OK a change in the sacrament- it would be a really big deal and probably take months (if not years).

ahh but now you are splitting hairs.

And priests have been known to enjoy some rather startling (and disturbing) things before....

ok now I AM bashing the church.....sigh.

HAPPY FRIDAY EVERYONE!

*sigh* Gee...that wasn't dug into the ground :roll:

This discussion was refering to things the priests are SUPPOSED to be doing.

OK yeah I had a lightheaded moment....crucify me

umm back to topic, it is sad that priest are bound and ordered to be so non-negotiable.

which is again part of the reason why catholicism doesnt work for me anymore.