What the heck happened? R9 290 series price increase by $100?!

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nkdesistyle

Member
Nov 14, 2005
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Yup I was looking for a 280x and now the only one available at newegg is way above msrp. I guess AMD will be happy these things are selling like hot cakes.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
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No, newegg doesn't take cyrpto.

Paypal balance.

I'll tell you this... if/when a major retailer like Newegg or Amazon starts taking crypto coins, the price of Bitcoin and Litecoin are going to skyrocket

Honestly, I'm amazed that more online retailers aren't using Bitpay already. It allows you to accept Bitcoins for payment, but you still get paid in US dollars. The fees that Bitpay charges are less than the merchant fees for a credit card, and you don't have to worry about chargebacks.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
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I'll tell you this... if/when a major retailer like Newegg or Amazon starts taking crypto coins, the price of Bitcoin and Litecoin are going to skyrocket

Honestly, I'm amazed that more online retailers aren't using Bitpay already. It allows you to accept Bitcoins for payment, but you still get paid in US dollars. The fees that Bitpay charges are less than the merchant fees for a credit card, and you don't have to worry about chargebacks.

It's not surprising, they won't accept it until it becomes less volatile. Since bitcoins can half in value practically overnight, it isn't a viable form of currency for the vast majority of business. The dollar is more or less somewhat stable. Credit is a stable form of currency. Bitcoin is a question mark. They can get a 1000$ purchase and if paid with bitcoins, they could either get 1000$ or that could turn into 700$ (ie a 300$ loss) in a matter of hours.

For instance, China declared that BTC is not an acceptable currency to them. What happens? Bitcoins tank. So any etailer that had accepted bitcoins as a form of payment? Hello massive operating loss.
 

ultimatebob

Lifer
Jul 1, 2001
25,135
2,445
126
It's not surprising, they won't accept it until it becomes less volatile. Since bitcoins can half in value practically overnight, it isn't a viable form of currency for the vast majority of business. The dollar is more or less somewhat stable. Credit is a stable form of currency. Bitcoin is a question mark. They can get a 1000$ purchase and if paid with bitcoins, they could either get 1000$ or that could turn into 700$ (ie a 300$ loss) in a matter of hours.

For instance, China declared that BTC is not an acceptable currency to them. What happens? Bitcoins tank. So any etailer that had accepted bitcoins as a form of payment? Hello massive operating loss.

If the business owner is getting paid US dollars via Bitpay almost instantly, why would they care what the price of BTC will be? It's the buyer who's taking most of the risk by holding the Bitcoin currency. Bitpay isn't really holding onto the currency either, as they exchange the Bitcoin they receive into US dollars almost as quickly as they get it. All they are is basically a payment broker like Paypal.

Sure, it's possible that Bitpay could go out of business if Bitcoin took a sudden hard crash and didn't recover, but nobody is expecting that. From what I've heard, Bitpay is a real business backed up by some well known VC investors. They aren't a fly by night operation like most of the oddball businesses that currently take Bitcoin are.
 
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Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
7,542
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146
While the price of 290s on newegg is an unfortunate setback, look around for deals elsewhere, and/or wait for custom cards when they come. I am hoping to pick up another one before too long, so hopefully the price will be decent in a bit.

Also, mining is STILL profitable, and keep in mind that there are tons of different altcoin types out there, its not just BTC and LTC. Also, pretty much any scrypt coin mining on GPU is profitable for now, as there arent ASICs developed for scrypt mining yet, and difficulty is relatively low.

Also, just a reminder, keep posts civil, and no need to use offensive words like "idiot."
 

nwo

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2005
2,309
0
71
Bitpay sounds pretty legit imo, I might consider it once other cryptos become popular. Using it for BTC is like hoping to find a needle in a haystack (since my business is small and local) since there is only a maximum of 21m BTC.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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If you believe that cryptocurrency prices will keep going up, then you might as well just buy the cryptocurrency directly. People mocked me for saying this back when BTC was like $50-100 and now look at it. Same with LTC, it was like $3.50.

Who mocked you? We all agreed it was the PROPER way to do it, for people who want to make big bucks with some element of risk, buying coins outright is the way to go. I was about to buy several hundred BTC early in the year when they were 30 each, but I'm risk-adverse due to my wife, and so I did not. But I did put my radeons to work mining and they got be some coins.

Mining for casuals is about next to zero risk, since they want a GPU for gaming regardless. For those who invest in several cards for the purpose of mining, its very low risk, since if the prices of coins fall, the cards are still worth plenty. Think about how good a gaming card such as the R290 is, and if you ebay it for $350 near-new, do you think people wouldn't buy it?

Btw, I have 1 free R290 now, end of this month its going to be both free R290s. You have to be a) clueless about potential of mining, or b) hating $$ to go with NV GPUs of late.
 

Hauk

Platinum Member
Nov 22, 2001
2,808
0
0
To watch this unfold has been, amazing? I mean two weeks ago people were looking for 290 non-ref cooler designs, while piles of AMD new release sat available. This mining business and these farms are something too.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Man, that's a lot of setup and installation work for... what... $200 a day once he gets all that set up?

That's assuming that he doesn't have to upgrade the wiring coming into his house to power all that equipment... it would likely take weeks for the power company to do that.

Hell, by the time he's finished setting up those systems the difficulty would have increased yet again. If the price of Litecoin doesn't go up with it, now he's only making $150 a day and dropping quickly.

If he's that passionate about Litecoin, he should just buy 500 of them and get it over with.

Well since he started awhile ago it would be higher.. but if he started today..

It's more like $500 a day (69 x 7950 at 600kHa/s is a lot), or ~$15,000 a month AFTER paying electricity (69 x 250W average each, less due to 4 cards per system) of ~0.1 USD per kWh which is high in some parts of USA heh.

If he had that setup going since the start of the year, holy crap.. it would have been ridiculous, he could quit his job and be swimming in $$.
 

blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
76
If he put that much money directly into buying LTC instead of mining it, he could quit. Otherwise... can you imagine the headaches of setting up and maintaining that many cards? Way easier to buy and sell currencies directly.
 

nwo

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2005
2,309
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If he put that much money directly into buying LTC instead of mining it, he could quit. Otherwise... can you imagine the headaches of setting up and maintaining that many cards? Way easier to buy and sell currencies directly.

My two mining rigs are already giving me enough of a headache, I can't imagine myself maintaining dozens of them.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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If he put that much money directly into buying LTC instead of mining it, he could quit. Otherwise... can you imagine the headaches of setting up and maintaining that many cards? Way easier to buy and sell currencies directly.

$17,500 for GPUs (~250 each back then) is a sizeable investment for sure, but if he spent that much money and risk LTC crashing, he would have had a major loss. But his 69 radeons? They are still worth plenty for gamers. A 7950 OC is still a great gaming card for many. Its the same argument, risk vs reward and how much risk are you willing to take on?

Btw, 69 x 7950s mining since the start of the year would have now already made him a fortune, regardless of whether he bought GPUs to mine or buy coins directly.
 
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blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
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Well since he started awhile ago it would be higher.. but if he started today..

It's more like $500 a day (69 x 7950 at 600kHa/s is a lot), or ~$15,000 a month AFTER paying electricity (69 x 250W average each, less due to 4 cards per system) of ~0.1 USD per kWh which is high in some parts of USA heh.

If he had that setup going since the start of the year, holy crap.. it would have been ridiculous, he could quit his job and be swimming in $$.

Of course, the air conditioning bill for 70 radeons, that would offset electricity costs a bit more. If it's a farm of GPUs some type of air conditioning would be mandatory for the room they're in.

I tend to agree buying the actual coins low and selling high would be preferable. I can't imagine the hassle of having a farm of 70 radeons for mining...probably darn good money though for the people that got in on it early, though.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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Of course, the air conditioning bill for 70 radeons, that would offset electricity costs a bit more.

Nah, open the windows. If its in a garage, not a problem!!

I would be concerned with him pulling ~17,000W 24/7, that would really cause some suspicion.
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
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$17,500 for GPUs (~250 each back then) is a sizeable investment for sure, but if he spent that much money and risk LTC crashing, he would have had a major loss. But his 69 radeons? They are still worth plenty for gamers. A 7950 OC is still a great gaming card for many. Its the same argument, risk vs reward and how much risk are you willing to take on?

Btw, 69 x 7950s mining since the start of the year would have now already made him a fortune, regardless of whether he bought GPUs to mine or buy coins directly.

He was dumb and should have bought R290s at MSRP.

You literally cannot lose on your investment if you buy R290s at MSRP.

Buying EOL products is stupid as you run the same risk as just buying the coins.

Glad people bought mine.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
2
0
Nah, open the windows. If its in a garage, not a problem!!

I dunno...it gets pretty darn toasty in the southeast and humidity is a big issue. I kinda doubt windows alone would cover 70 radeons. Heck I remember CF 7970s made my PC room downright HOT during summer months (with windows open) in terms of ambient temps, and that was two cards. I'd love to hear firsthand stories from dudes running these types of farms though. As far as drawbacks, hassles, profits, etc... Either way even with the AC bill it'd be interesting to hear what kind of profits were had.

I'm not saying it isn't worth doing or anything, just that i'm interested in hearing first hand accounts of these people running farms. Should be interesting to hear first hand stories about...
 
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Feb 19, 2009
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There were dudes buying 7950s en-mass start of this year. For BTC mining before ASICs killed it, which they then would switch to altcoins. Sure these days, R290 is the best bang for buck mining/gaming, but back then 7950 reigned supreme.
 
Feb 19, 2009
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I dunno...it gets pretty darn toasty in the southeast and humidity is a big issue. I kinda doubt windows alone would cover 70 radeons. I'd love to hear firsthand stories from dudes running these types of farms though. As far as drawbacks, hassles, profits, etc...

Well i saw a post from a dude with such a farm in his garage, no aircond just windows.. at his peak during the BTC crazy he was pulling in ~$26,000 a month.

It obviously depends on your location, if its colder climates, its cake. Heck, most of north america, europe and russia pay heaps for heating...
 

SimianR

Senior member
Mar 10, 2011
609
16
81
My two mining rigs are already giving me enough of a headache, I can't imagine myself maintaining dozens of them.

This. I can understand using the hardware on hand by getting your other PC's mining.. but setting up a farm of mining rigs in the basement seems a little over the top. I like the idea of a collaborative effort between enthusiasts that have taken an interest in these currencies, but hearing about these corporate orders of 100+ GPU's at a time is a bit.. ridiculous.
 

24601

Golden Member
Jun 10, 2007
1,683
39
86
There were dudes buying 7950s en-mass start of this year. For BTC mining before ASICs killed it, which they then would switch to altcoins. Sure these days, R290 is the best bang for buck mining/gaming, but back then 7950 reigned supreme.

You have to factor in prices of cards if/when the coins crash, or else you should have just bought the coins.

People need to learn to hedge.

The people buying the cards for double or triple MSRP are in for a slap to the face if/when things don't work out for them.

Bulls buy coins, Bears buy the cards at MSRP or less.

Everyone not in either of these categories are clueless about risk management.
 
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blastingcap

Diamond Member
Sep 16, 2010
6,654
5
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$17,500 for GPUs (~250 each back then) is a sizeable investment for sure, but if he spent that much money and risk LTC crashing, he would have had a major loss. But his 69 radeons? They are still worth plenty for gamers. A 7950 OC is still a great gaming card for many. Its the same argument, risk vs reward and how much risk are you willing to take on?

Btw, 69 x 7950s mining since the start of the year would have now already made him a fortune, regardless of whether he bought GPUs to mine or buy coins directly.

It's not $17.5k for GPUs, think of all the rigs and wiring and warehousing costs, power supply costs, CPU/mobo/RAM costs, electrical upgrade costs (most residential lines can't power many rigs, and even most C&I is going to have trouble with that much equipment), rack or case costs, power costs, cooling costs, risk of total loss due to fire/flood/theft/etc., and warehouse rental costs. The actual amount of money he put into mining was probably more like $100k including all of those costs including a year of power, warehouse rent, maintenance to replace failed cards, restart miners that went down, replace burned out PSUs and cards, etc. $100k in LTC bought when LTC was $2 would be worth about $7.2 million today.

The whole "mining is less risky" idea is only true for small-scale operations where you would have bought the GPU for some other purpose such as video games. If you buy MORE than that, you are now taking on risk. You are now speculating. Maybe not quite as much as someone who buys currency directly, but you're still speculating.

If someone breaks into your warehouse or whatever and steals it? Zero.

And if you are mining without knowing exactly what you're doing, you run the risk of burning down PSUs, burning everything you own down. How much is THAT worth to you to avoid? Heck, you'd probably liable to adjacent property owners for your electrical fire, so you probably go bankrupt from all the lawsuits and claims against you. (Your insurance likely doesn't cover weird stuff like masses of mining rigs.)

You think this doesn't happen? Let me tell you something--while I was replacing the panel on my rig, I didn't notice a wire had gotten moved. When I started up mining I left the room and came back a moment later because I left my phone in that room. I smelled burning. Turns out the wire caught in a GPU fan. Almost lost a very expensive GPU and possibly my entire rig due to ONE careless mistake. If I had not returned right away, I might have started a fire. Multiply that by 69 GPUs... what a headache.

I would much rather pocket $7.1 million with almost zero effort than tear my hair out babysitting tons of mining equipment that would take far longer to make $7.2 million if it ever does, especially as difficulty skyrockets. "But the temptation to sell" you say. Yeah so what, both traders and miners have to deal with such temptation. "But if LTC goes to zero" you say. Yeah so what, fire/flood/theft can wipe your miners out too, plus the maintenance and power costs and depreciation are going to be a huge headache. The point of having money is to ENJOY LIFE, not add more headaches to it.

Furthermore, if you prefer a trickle of income to buying coins, you can simply buy shares in companies that own mining rigs. And if buying coins at once scares you, you can dollar-cost-average them and buy like 1 coin a week instead of 52 coins at a time, just as one example.
 
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nwo

Platinum Member
Jun 21, 2005
2,309
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Good point Commie

I bought three of my 7870s for an average of $120 after discounts and rebates. I figured that I would be able to sell them for at least that much on any given day up to at least 6 months from now, shall that day come. In the meantime, I think the are awesome bang for the buck cards for both mining and gaming. If they fail while they are still under warranty, which is more likely to occur since I am mining on them 24/7... even better... because I will probably get a free RMA upgrade.

The point of having money is to ENJOY LIFE, not add more headaches to it.

You've made a compelling case there. :hmm:
 
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Feb 19, 2009
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If you want to get into a detailed analysis, each rig is just a cheap cpu, low ram stick, with a good PSU, for 4 cards. 18 such rigs x ~$300 = $5,400 on top of his GPUs.

I dont want to bother with all the other costs you listed since its highly variable, and if his house already has a big garage, he lives in a cold climate?? Replacing burned out PSU or cards? Warranty for that.
 
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