What the... ??? my machine can't play HD video content???

[AnitaPeterson]

I'm stumped...

I have the above-mentioned computer as the main gaming machine/HTPC in the living room, and it seems I can't use it for HD content.

Namely, I've got some .mkv files from my friends, and i can't watch them... the image gets stuck, or smears, the CPU utilization spikes at 100% and so on...

I mean, come on, it's a relatively old setup, but it's more than decent... lots of RAM, good video card, fast enough CPU... where's the bottleneck?

 

[aka1nas]

I doubt that CPU can handle HD-resolution video by itself. I was able to max out a highly overclocked X2 with 1024x768 res clips a few years ago and it was still a bit jerky. Your X800 series doesn't have HD acceleration AFAIK also.

 

[Modular]

Yeah, I was floored when I added an HVR1600 and tuned some QAM on my HTPC and there was stuttering.

HTPC:
GB-PVR
Socket 939 AMD Athlon 3400+
1 Gig Crucial PC3200
6600 vanilla PCI-E
Nvidia Purevideo decoder

Using only the CPU to decode the HD is OK, but still far to stuttery to be playable. When I enable the purevideo decoder, the playback gets even worse as the 6600 is weaksauce.

On my other computer I can playback HD just fine, but only when I enable PureVideo:

P4 2.8 (non HT 533Mhx FSB)
6600gt (AGP)
Purevideo decoder
1.5GB RAM


Realistically, if you were to grab an HD2400XT or similar, you would have perfectly smooth HD playback as it would offload the decoding from the CPU to the GPU.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

ughh... looks like it's just as well that I'm preparing a new machine with a 2600XT card in it...

 

[madh83]

Get coreavc, I've never had an issue with HD playback. Although, even OTA from my tuner card only takes aroudn 50% cpu util and little to no stuttering on a p4 3ghz. This was with intervideo, cyberlink, and nero mpeg2 decoders. With purevideo the util was around 10%, was a bit jerky for some reason though! Not sure why you're having so many problems. I do have a 6800 pcie, but that shouldn't matter if you were all using software decoding.

 

[Dkcode]

Are you using VLC to play the files?

 

[AzN]

I use VLC and I play MKV with only 10-15% cpu utilization. Of course I have core 2 duo and a modern video card but I don't see why your computer can't play MKV files. Update the drivers and get the latest codec.

 

[Auric]

P2.8 may manage low bitrate sources with software decoding but shan't even handle broadcast quality AVC (~ 17-20 Mbps), nevermind discs. An HD2600 combined with a DxVA decoder such as CyberLink will do the trick but chances are such MKV files have non-compliant x264 streams so will suffer the well known frame-rate defect whereby, for example, rather than maintaining 24 FPS despite minimal CPU utilization, it will drift down to 19-20 shortly after playback is started (or restarted) thus making it unwatchable.

CoreAVC may be marginally faster than other software-only decoders which are free in VLC and ffdshow but is awfully slow and innefficient compared to even first-gen hardware acceleration.

So, if the goal is only to play dodgy recodes then replace the CPU and use a free software decoder but don't expect to multi-task. For standard content, go ahead with the HD2600 and a commerical DxVA decoder.

For testing purposes, it is best to avoid MKV anyway (regardless of x264) -they both have issues. Grab some professionally encoded clips from Apple or BBC tests. Then you can see what the CPU can do with various decoders.

 

[madh83]

I play 720p and 1080i material fine broadcast mpeg2 and h.264 mkvs auric, they don't take as much computing power as marketing would have you believe. No point in convincing someone they need better hardware when they don't.

 

[Auric]

I have a P3.0 and did have an X800XL (ergo virtually same as OP) then 7600GT then HD2600 so am very familiar with the capabilities and kept performance graphs going back a couple years.

Given 20 Mbps 1080 AVC, with the X800XL (software-only decoding) CPU utilization is pegged at 100% and thus unplayable; 7600GT VP1: 75% (or 65% @ 3.6 Ghz); HD2600 UVD: 2% (almost indistinguishable from idle).

The bitrate for trailers and recodes can be half that while for commercial discs can be twice as much. Of course VC-1 is less demanding and MPEG-2 not at all (especially on the older ATI cards that decoded in dedicated hardware rather than in shaders with the newer ones).

 

[madh83]

I'm not saying you don't have a problem playing those files, I'm saying I've never had a problem with HD, over the air mpeg2 or h.264 on a p4 3.0. I'm assuming you tried 1080p avc, which I've never tried, so maybe I may have issues with it too. However, on 1080i TV, I've gone up to 50% at most, so I suspect it's not the decoder that's taking up all your cpu cycles, or maybe the way your player is set up is different. But that's the thing with playing HD using a computer, there's going to be a lot of variation even on similar hardware. Regardless, this doesn't help the OP with his problem. My configuration is for files, I use zoomplayer pro, ac3filter for spdif out and I let it install vobsub and mastroka splitter. It's pretty easy to setup because it downloads them for you. Coreavc to decode the video, I've got a few h.264 encoded 720p files. You should at least try the setup or something similar before you're convinced that you need to spend 200 or more on a new processor. Another major factor is that you should check that there are not a lot of background programs taking up cpu cycles on your computer to begin with, seems like a simple thing especially on this forum, but it's really easy to neglect the various software that's installed over time.

 

[Auric]

Well, you keep coming back to presumably low-bitrate AVC (< 10 Mbps) or else MPEG-2 so it is no wonder that the P3.0 alone can manage. Even higher bitrate AVC may be possible when reducing the quality settings in decoders such as CoreAVC (contrary to the standard). If the OP is likewise not interested in IQ and the friends' files are indeed low-bitrate then yes the existing hardware may suffice.

For real HD content (even broadcast AVC) though there is no doubt that either hardware acceleration or a modern CPU are required (preferably the former to reduce power useage and heat, and allow multi-tasking).

 

[themisfit610]

So, if the goal is only to play dodgy recodes then replace the CPU and use a free software decoder but don't expect to multi-task. For standard content, go ahead with the HD2600 and a commerical DxVA decoder.

For testing purposes, it is best to avoid MKV anyway (regardless of x264) -they both have issues. Grab some professionally encoded clips from Apple or BBC tests. Then you can see what the CPU can do with various decoders.

oooohhh. them's fightin words

I challenge you to point out something wrong with MKV as a container format that has nothing to do with what it contains (first of all)...

The only reason hardware acceleration only works properly for commercial content is because it was specifically designed that way. x264 fully compliant with the H.264 standard, so don't go spreading misinformation.

If the hardware acceleration routines were ordinary DirectShow codecs, they could be tossed into a filter graph just like any other decoder like ffdshow or CoreAVC, provided you had the right demuxer and renderer to handle the results.

This doesn't work, because these hardware decoders are implimented in a proprietary way and only work inside a few applications - which makes perfect sense to the developers but little sense to the end user who wants to backup his HD content. This may change in the future. Us video encoding guys have a habit of making things free from their evil restrictions

I totally agree that hardware acceleration is the perfect solution for watching high bitrate H.264 though

~MiSfit

 

[BFG10K]

I'm not surprised at the OP's problem given there?s content out there that crushes even a C2Duo using software decoding.

 

[secretanchitman]

it should play 720p content fine (my old northwood p4 2.4 @ 2.9, 2GB, 6600GT, played 720p just fine)...it probably might struggle with 1080p though.

 

[AnitaPeterson]

oi, oi, oi, no fighting!

I always played these .mkv files with VLC, I am NOT using any codec packs (bad experiences in the past, I'm now relying on FFDshow exclusively)...

I'll try CoreAVC next, just 'cause I'm curious...

 

[themisfit610]

CoreAVC is very fast.

@ secretanchitman - you may be able to play 720p trailers no problem, but consider that average bitrates are typically below 10 megabits. When you start working with HD optical discs (or broadcast AVC) you start looking at very high bitrates, in the 20-40 megabit range. That's where the real work is. Resolution is a huge factor (as is CABAC vs CAVLC), but bitrates become the largest issue when you deal with these high quality formats.

~MiSfit

 

[Therk]

??!!?

My Laptop with a 1.6ghz celeron and an Intel intergrated video card plays 720P with no problems whatsoever.

 

[themisfit610]

read my post. What kind of 720p are we talking about?

~Misfit