What this election means for the country and the Democratic party

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: AntiEverything

Originally posted by: Infohawk... My point is not to trash people here...

Pardon me while I laugh maniacally for the next ten minutes or so...

Join the club. I'd tell the fool what I really thought of him, but it's not worth the ban.

Mumbles about self serving narcicistic morons & shakes fist.

But the poor protestors were kept in concentratation camps for hours & hours....

 

[T2T III]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose
It means you were too goddamn stupid to listen to reason, it means that yelling doesn't actually win an argument, it means you were just plain flat wrong.

It means if you yell & scream enough, people will lie to the pollsters, just like people quit listening to you, just like people lied to the exit pollsters today.

The last time the polls were this wrong, was when the first black governor was elected, people were unwilling to tell the pollsters how they were going to vote.

Anarchist Democrats aren't ever going to cut it.

Democrats need to move more centrist & leave the fringes like you in the dust. The Dems need to burn down the house & build a new one.

This is too goddamn sweet.

If I were of draft age, I'd be real concerned about staying out of the service & the draft right now. We need soldiers to fight in Iran.

*sigh* What was a wrong about, exactly pliablemoose? An election doesn't decide who's right or wrong, it decides who has power.

Don't overlook North Korea and also the option of carpet bombing Syria.

 

[Pliablemoose]

Originally posted by: Infohawk


*sigh* What was a wrong about, exactly pliablemoose? An election doesn't decide who's right or wrong, it decides who has power.

Yes, I know that, you've been arguing you were right for the last few months, now it's not that you mis-read the public, it's that everyone else is just wrong.

It's your attitude that precludes you from even begining to understand the voters in this country, the same attitude that led the Dems to run that Brahamin fool that just lost.

Do I need to pull up all of your threads for the last month & rub your face in it?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Pliablemoose

Originally posted by: Infohawk


*sigh* What was a wrong about, exactly pliablemoose? An election doesn't decide who's right or wrong, it decides who has power.

Yes, I know that, you've been arguing you were right for the last few months, now it's not that you mis-read the public, it's that everyone else is just wrong.

It's your attitude that precludes you from even begining to understand the voters in this country, the same attitude that led the Dems to run that Brahamin fool that just lost.

Do I need to pull up all of your threads for the last month & rub your face in it?

Again, what was I wrong about? I never predicted Kerry would win the election. I was well aware there are people like you out there. Do you expect me to vote for Bush for that reason?

You seem to have a personal grudge against me. That's cool. PM me if you want. This thread is about the Democratic country and the USA's future. It's not about Infohawk.

 

[Ozoned]

Negativism is what keeps people from succeeding. Even when the facts dictate that negativism is justified...


Think about that when you are relishing in your failure.

 

[CptObvious]

I believe Bush won mainly because he was the incumbent during wartime. After 9/11, the South and Midwest have returned to a nationalistic state of mind. Even though the majority of Americans believe (according to opinion polls) that invading Iraq was a mistake, Iraq still helped Bush in this election because people are still in this 'support our commander-in-chief' mindset, no matter what happens.

Bush Jr. learned from the mistakes of his father's administration. Without an ongoing war, there is no longer a public perception of the president as commander-in-chief, and the emphasis shifts to the economy. When Bush Sr. ran against Clinton in '92, Desert Storm was over and voters voted based on their discontent with the economy. In '04, the economy was a big issue but war and fear of terrorism overcame it.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Negativism is what keeps people from succeeding. Even when the facts dictate that negativism is justified...


Think about that when you are relishing in your failure.

I don't think that was it Ozoned. let's face it the Bush campaign was just as negative. This was about socail issues apparently like abortion and such...

 

[AntiEverything]

Fact is Infohawk, I and probably quite a few other people would have voted Democrat had it not been for Kerry. If a more centrist Democrat could have been found, Bush would be gone right now. As it was, a bunch of morons chose a complete goober for a candidate. They found the most polarized, unelectable jackass they could. Why? I don't know. But with this Iraq mess, a more centrist Democrat would have swept the election. Democrats dug their own grave long before the Republicans started slinging mud.

 

[Zebo]

What does it mean for dems? They better start paying attention to wedge issues or they are dead that's what.

Many swing voters own guns. They are law abiding, responsible and safe gun owners and the Democratic Party is seen as gun grabbers. Bad news.

The majority of voters are religious and like to hear abortion is a sin even if there's nothing really being done to overturn it. The Democratic Party is seen as abortion supporters. Bad news.

The majority of voters are straight and religious and want thier children to be brought up straight without some freak side show. The Democratic Party is seen as Gay Supporters. Bad news.

Taxes, while not a wedge issue, is still a BIG problem for democrats because dispite thier nessesary evil, no one likes paying high taxes and the republicans play this issue like a fiddle however irresponsibly to our nation. The Democratic Party is seen as party of high taxes. Bad news.

How to win? Become more republican.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: CptObvious
I believe Bush won mainly because he was the incumbent during wartime. After 9/11, the South and Midwest have returned to a nationalistic state of mind. Even though the majority of Americans believe (according to opinion polls) that invading Iraq was a mistake, Iraq still helped Bush in this election because people are still in this 'support our commander-in-chief' mindset, no matter what happens.

Bush Jr. learned from the mistakes of his father's administration. Without an ongoing war, there is no longer a public perception of the president as commander-in-chief, and the emphasis shifts to the economy. When Bush Sr. ran against Clinton in '92, Desert Storm was over and voters were pissed about the economy. In '04, the economy was a big issue but the main issue was war and fear of terrorism.

Dude, what you're overlooking is that there was no war in 2000 and Bush had tons of support then too. Heck, I dont' think most Americans even like this war anymore but on social issues a slim majority will side with Bush no matter what.

 

[BarneyFife]

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Negativism is what keeps people from succeeding. Even when the facts dictate that negativism is justified...


Think about that when you are relishing in your failure.

You can be as positive as you want, the southern states aren't voting democrat. The folks down there are poor yet they vote for social issues. What can you do to get their vote? You don't want to sacrifice your soul to get their vote either because thats selling out.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: AntiEverything
Fact is Infohawk, I and probably quite a few other people would have voted Democrat had it not been for Kerry. If a more centrist Democrat could have been found, Bush would be gone right now. As it was, a bunch of morons chose a complete goober for a candidate. They found the most polarized, unelectable jackass they could. Why? I don't know. But with this Iraq mess, a more centrist Democrat would have swept the election. Democrats dug their own grave long before the Republicans started slinging mud.

That does'nt explain republicans dominating other races statewide and nationally.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Zebo
Become more republican.

Exactly, and that's not going to happen because it's simply too inconsistent with liberal values. That's why I think Dems will be powerless for a long time.

f a more centrist Democrat could have been found

I don't buy that. A more centrist Democrat wouldn't be a Democrat. Did you like Clinton?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

You can be as positive as you want, the southern states aren't voting democrat. The folks down there are poor yet they vote for social issues. What can you do to get their vote? You don't want to sacrifice your soul to get their vote either because thats selling out.

:thumbsup:

 

[Ozoned]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Negativism is what keeps people from succeeding. Even when the facts dictate that negativism is justified...


Think about that when you are relishing in your failure.

I don't think that was it Ozoned. let's face it the Bush campaign was just as negative. This was about socail issues apparently like abortion and such...

I am not talking about the campaigns. I am referring to what your life will be like 10 years from now if you don't wake up now and smell the roses , so to speak...

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: BarneyFife

You can be as positive as you want, the southern states aren't voting democrat. The folks down there are poor yet they vote for social issues. What can you do to get their vote? You don't want to sacrifice your soul to get their vote either because thats selling out.

great analysis. it's the same in the North East. we're rich, but vote with our social values.

it's those stupid mid-westerners who are screwing it up jk

 

[FoBoT]

maybe the Dems will run a moderate candidate in 2008 instead of Hillary , if they want a chance

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Since the Reps have pulled this one out, I expect their candidates will get the lions share of money next time around, more than this election. We could see the beginning of a one party State.

 

[Genx87]

These judges can have huge, long lasting effects and the general public does not seem to have a large focus on this.

What gives you the idea they dont have this as a focus. Even if I didnt like Bush as much as I do. I would have voted for him simple because of the supreme court judge issue. I really want to see Roe v Wade overturned in my lifetime.

I think there are many people who think like this. My sister, and my fiance. Both of which who have never voted. Voted this time because of the surpreme court issue.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Ozoned

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Ozoned
Negativism is what keeps people from succeeding. Even when the facts dictate that negativism is justified...


Think about that when you are relishing in your failure.

I don't think that was it Ozoned. let's face it the Bush campaign was just as negative. This was about socail issues apparently like abortion and such...

I am not talking about the campaigns. I am referring to what your life will be like 10 years from now if you don't wake up now and smell the roses , so to speak...

Dude, if you want to talk about Infohawk PM me. This thread is about the Democratic party and the future of America.

 

[nageov3t]

Originally posted by: FoBoT
maybe the Dems will run a moderate candidate in 2008 instead of Hillary , if they want a chance

I have faith that 2008 will be the first election since 1992 where we can chose between 2 great canidates.

it's going to take the Dems awhile to do some soul searching, though.

 

[Ballsack]

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Well, Info, we can not forget how important the Republican revolution in 1994 was for the country. Newt Gingrich was the architect of the biggest political realignment in the history of this country and the effects will be felt for decades.

Listen, you can not win them all. The Democratic Party controlled congress for over 40 years and the tide has turned. This election was a big statement by the GOP, they won the popular vote and strengthened their stronghold in the Congress. They retain the Supreme Court seat of Judge Rehnquist and will determine our policies for a long time.

The DNC needs to step back and start over. What worked in the past will no longer work. A strong, unified grass roots campaign needs to start tomorrow, with a new strategy to win future elections. In order to that, they have to challenge the Republican machine which is unified and which has a huge base of followers due to the success of people like Rush Limbaugh and the Fox "News" network. This will not happened overnight, but it must happen if the Democrats are to have any shot of taking back the house, senate and the presidency.

:thumbsup:

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Genx87

I would have voted for him simple because of the supreme court judge issue. I really want to see Roe v Wade overturned in my lifetime.

EXACTLY. This is why the Republicans won. And this is a gap that simply cannot be bridged by teh Democrats moving to the center.

 

[CptObvious]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Dude, what you're overlooking is that there was no war in 2000 and Bush had tons of support then too. Heck, I dont' think most Americans even like this war anymore but on social issues a slim majority will side with Bush no matter what.

I think 2000 was a different matter. In 2000, many people voted for Bush Jr. because 1) Gore was a lackluster candidate and 2) the Monica-gate scandal had left a bad taste in everyone's mouths (no pun intended) about the presidency. There was a push to get someone with "honor" and "decency" in the White House and personal character became a big issue during the campaign.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Ballsack

Originally posted by: Bumrush99
Well, Info, we can not forget how important the Republican revolution in 1994 was for the country. Newt Gingrich was the architect of the biggest political realignment in the history of this country and the effects will be felt for decades.

Listen, you can not win them all. The Democratic Party controlled congress for over 40 years and the tide has turned. This election was a big statement by the GOP, they won the popular vote and strengthened their stronghold in the Congress. They retain the Supreme Court seat of Judge Rehnquist and will determine our policies for a long time.

The DNC needs to step back and start over. What worked in the past will no longer work. A strong, unified grass roots campaign needs to start tomorrow, with a new strategy to win future elections. In order to that, they have to challenge the Republican machine which is unified and which has a huge base of followers due to the success of people like Rush Limbaugh and the Fox "News" network. This will not happened overnight, but it must happen if the Democrats are to have any shot of taking back the house, senate and the presidency.

:thumbsup:

Nah. You guys are dreaming. Start a grass roots campaign? We did that with moveon and such after the last election... The social conservatives did the same thing and beat us at it.