What was the Republican solution to healthcare?

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Oct 30, 2004
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C: Someone at the heritage foundation did propose an individual mandate as a means of sharing healthcare costs. (the healthy pay for the unhealthy) But that doesn't mean it was backed by the Heritage Foundation. Think tanks (like the heritage foundation) throw any number of ideas at the wall to see what sticks.

These articles may be of interest. It was not just an "idea thrown at the wall to see if it would stick". It had much backing from Republican politicians. (It was the plan they supported in opposition to calls for implementing socialized medicine.)

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/06/25/120625fa_fact_klein

Republicans Had a Plan to Replace Obamacare. It Looked a Lot Like Obamacare


25 Republicans Who Supported Obamacare Before Obama
 
Oct 30, 2004
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The Democrat's solution was the ACA. What was the Republic solution or attempts to help solve the problems above?

The Republicans' plan...is basically the ACA and Obamacare. Arguably, the Republicans have won and their plan has been implemented. In contrast, having single payer socialized medicine has lost and is no longer part of the public debate.

Now that the Republicans oppose Obamacare and the ACA, their plan is basically:

Don't get sick, and if you do get sick, die quickly and quietly.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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The data is there on tort reform. Tort reform does NOTHING MEANINGFUL to lower healthcare costs. Total Medical Tort costs are ~1-1.5% of total healthcare costs. Doing away with all medical torts wouldn't do a damn thing to lower medical costs. Tort reform would do even less.

What the tort reformers conveniently ignore or stupidly fail to realize is that tort reform does not magically make the costs of medical negligence disappear. Rather, it just shifts those costs onto other people or other parts of our welfare state system.

If a doctor or nurses (etc.) make a serious mistake and cause $5 million in damage, just because a patient might no longer be able to sue and collect compensation does not mean that the $5 million in damage to the patient has magically disappeared. If a doctor amputates a guy's leg by mistake when he was really supposed to fix a hernia, the guy's being unable to sue won't magically bring his leg back.

But don't try explaining that to the mindless "no think" masses who jump on the anti-lawyer bandwagon.

Arguably, eliminating medical malpractice could actually raise the real price of health care by removing a disincentive against medical negligence. If the torts system functions properly, it lowers overall costs by encouraging cost-effective prudence.
 
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Oct 30, 2004
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So if Obamacare is successful you and the Dems will credit the Heritage Foundation and republicans?

To a certain extent, sure.

However, it won't be successful because the underlying health care system is a disaster. It may be a tiny improvement. It's like giving someone a pill to lower their cholesterol when he really needs a triple bypass.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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Arguably, eliminating medical malpractice could actually raise the real price of health care by removing a disincentive against medical negligence. If the torts system functions properly, it lowers overall costs by encouraging cost-effective prudence.

I disagree 100%. Threat of lawsuits lead to over-testing and frivolous procedures.

Every doctor I know does some tests simply for the CYA factor if something goes wrong. Nothing "cost-effective" about it.

I think the best solution for torts is let doctors be exempt from lawsuits if they will give X amount free healthcare to those without insurance. Many of the worst docs would take that offer, but beggars can't be choosers.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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the madate and exchanges distribute the costs toan individual.

It still will cost $1K to go to the ER. (Paid by insurance less deductible/copay)
It will still cost $100 to visit your local MD (Paid by insurance less deductible/copay)
It will still cost $50 for blood work by Quest. (Paid by insurance less deductible/copay)

How is the added insurance coverage going to lower those costs.
A person needing to go to the UR will still go to the ER. Payment is just a different color of paper
As long as the insurance can pass the costs onto the subscriber; you still have the base costs driven by the provider.
Insurance costs will come down when the total care comes down. The added insurance premiums are not going to reduce the costs of medical care.

Markets. Unless you don't believe in capitalism. Markets create competition. Competition creates incentives to lower costs. Its the lack of competition that's driving healthcare costs.

Better care. Its cheaper to diagnose and treat many diseases at early stages then it is to let people get sicker then try to save them when they show up at the emergency room.

People with decent insurance are more likely to get treatment.

If you get down to the fundamentals and really analyze them, there's no way that having healthier population is more expensive than having a sicker population.

Its like not understanding that poor roads don't save money versus good roads. The roads might be cheaper but the damage to vehicles, and losses due to congestion and slow speed, is greater than the savings due to bad roads.

That is one of the basic misunderstandings about government spending. A lot of the time there's no savings from cutting spending, there's just cost shifting and frequently more inefficiency.
 
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EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
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Markets. Unless you don't believe in capitalism. Markets create competition. Competition creates incentives to lower costs. Its the lack of competition that's driving healthcare costs.

Better care. Its cheaper to diagnose and treat many diseases at early stages then it is to let people get sicker then try to save them when they show up at the emergency room.

People with decent insurance are more likely to get treatment.

If you get down to the fundamentals and really analyze them, there's no way that having healthier population is more expensive than having a sicker population.

Its like not understanding that poor roads don't save money versus good roads. The roads might be cheaper but the damage to vehicles, and losses due to congestion and slow speed, is greater than the savings due to bad roads.

That is one of the basic misunderstandings about government spending. A lot of the time there's no savings from cutting spending, there's just cost shifting and frequently more inefficiency.

Have you looked at the actual plans being offered.
Sample:
For $400-800 for a couple in their 50's they get between $1600(B)-$3000(S) in deductibles for care.
That is close to a weeks paycheck for insurance coverage that many can not afford. Even is the premiums are subsidized for the Bronze levels; the deductible costs do not go down until you increase the plan level. That delta may not be subsidized.


Government spending for make work/publicity projects is not efficient.
Most times, those projects are heavily cost inflated.

How much government spending is needed becomes a matter of opinion and how one wants to see money distributed.

Take it out of the hands of the people and let the government distribute it according to their "all encompassing" wisdom or let the people decide what their money needs to be spent on.

If you think the government knows best on spending; then why even have a private sector; take and hand out goods on demand; a persons worth ends up worthless.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
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Don't know, but once the democrats have a plan let me knwo as all we have in passed legislation now is an insurance company bail out.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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I disagree 100%. Threat of lawsuits lead to over-testing and frivolous procedures.

Every doctor I know does some tests simply for the CYA factor if something goes wrong. Nothing "cost-effective" about it.

I think the best solution for torts is let doctors be exempt from lawsuits if they will give X amount free healthcare to those without insurance. Many of the worst docs would take that offer, but beggars can't be choosers.

They also GET PAID when tests and procedures are done.

You think doctors require office visits to renew prescriptions because of fear of being sued ?

Its all part of the business plan. There are literally colonoscopy factories. Has nothing to do with not getting sued.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
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They also GET PAID when tests and procedures are done.

You think doctors require office visits to renew prescriptions because of fear of being sued ?

Its all part of the business plan. There are literally colonoscopy factories. Has nothing to do with not getting sued.

Sometimes they do testing that doesn't get reimbursed directly because that is the standard of care. They just have to eat the testing costs and make it up elsewhere, like on a procedure related to the tests.

I mean, sure some doctors do all kinds of unneeded tests for the money and that should be cleaned up too. Honestly it depends on the specialty how bad it is in either direction.

Either way, the "solution" of simply holding the payments on many of these tests leads to a situation where doctors play chicken with liability:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgo...gnostic-tests-patients-will-feel-the-effects/
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
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They also GET PAID when tests and procedures are done.

You think doctors require office visits to renew prescriptions because of fear of being sued ?

Its all part of the business plan. There are literally colonoscopy factories. Has nothing to do with not getting sued.

A MD will not issue a renew to a prescription because the meds are such that the patient safety could be compromised. The meds are intended to modify the patients system. After a point of time; they need to be followed up.

It is not a business decision; it is a patient safety issue.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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A MD will not issue a renew to a prescription because the meds are such that the patient safety could be compromised. The meds are intended to modify the patients system. After a point of time; they need to be followed up.

It is not a business decision; it is a patient safety issue.

A chargeable office visit every 180 days isn't uniformly necessary to accomplish patient safety for all patients and with all medications.

But it does generate revenue for the business.
 

Londo_Jowo

Lifer
Jan 31, 2010
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londojowo.hypermart.net
A chargeable office visit every 180 days isn't uniformly necessary to accomplish patient safety for all patients and with all medications.

But it does generate revenue for the business.

So how is the MD supposed to determine if the medication is doing the expected job without having blood tests and an office visit to discuss how the patient is doing?

I get blood tests every 90 days to determine thyroid/type 2 diabetes conditions and how the medication is doing to correct these issues. My thyroid has gone toxic and this regular blood testing caught it before it required extreme measures/treatment.
 
Feb 19, 2001
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Sometimes they do testing that doesn't get reimbursed directly because that is the standard of care. They just have to eat the testing costs and make it up elsewhere, like on a procedure related to the tests.

I mean, sure some doctors do all kinds of unneeded tests for the money and that should be cleaned up too. Honestly it depends on the specialty how bad it is in either direction.

Either way, the "solution" of simply holding the payments on many of these tests leads to a situation where doctors play chicken with liability:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgo...gnostic-tests-patients-will-feel-the-effects/

Right. Tort reform also helps to bring back the doctor patient relationship. Right now, too many decisions are being made based on money and out of fear for lawsuits instead of being a sensible decision guided by medical reasons.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
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A chargeable office visit every 180 days isn't uniformly necessary to accomplish patient safety for all patients and with all medications.

But it does generate revenue for the business.

Wrong. Your attitude was once how things were done but disease states change. That was good for the funeral business.
 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
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So if Obamacare is successful you and the Dems will credit the Heritage Foundation and republicans?

Sure, it's fun to gloat with an idea that they had at one point but turned on just because Obama supported it.
 

Thegonagle

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2000
9,773
0
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Was it also a mandate that everyone buy healthcare?

What? (Did I just read that?)

Yes, of course insurance was mandatory in the Heritage plan. That is what had the pro-business wing of the Republican party salivating. Clinton was talking single-payer in the '90s, which would have put the health insurance industry out of business.

The insurance mandate was the Heritage Foundation's response, theory being that when more younger, healthier people start buying in, rates could be lower for everybody, while the insurance industry rakes in more than ever.

How do people who think they know so much about the ACA not know this!?!
 

Pens1566

Lifer
Oct 11, 2005
11,820
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A MD will not issue a renew to a prescription because the meds are such that the patient safety could be compromised. The meds are intended to modify the patients system. After a point of time; they need to be followed up.

It is not a business decision; it is a patient safety issue.

Depends on the prescription.
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
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Sure, it's fun to gloat with an idea that they had at one point but turned on just because Obama supported it.

I think although the idea may have originated in the conservative side thinktanks and adopted as a counter to the Clinton healthcare plan, it was made basically obsolete with development of Health Savings Accounts.
 
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