What were the best Core 2 duo/quad SFF (slim) desktops?

[cbn]

BTW do you know if Dell's 780 MB will support the Xeon? I have a 780 kicking around, maybe I can get it a try.

According to the following reference, the 5xxx series are incompatible, but the 3xxx series worked:

http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/3/#dell

The identical appearing Dell Optiplex 3xx series, on the other hand, is reported to work with 5xxx series Xeons (at least the C0 stepping ones).

 

[cbn]

According to the link below, desktops with Q chipsets cannot use 5xxx Xeons:

http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/2/

This group of Q chipset desktops includes the HP DC 5800 (and a whole bunch of other HPs). Desktops like the Optiplex 360/380 (with G chipsets), on the other hand, can use 5xxx Xeons (at least the C0 stepping ones).

However, one concern I have with the Dell Optiplex 360/380 is the weaker PSU (only 14 amps on the 12v rail compared to the 19 amps combined (11.5 and 7.5) on the two 12v rails for the DC5800).

With that said, the Dell Optiplex 380 does take DDR3 ram, has built in Wifi and the price for the slim desktop version (from my limited ebay exposure) doesn't appear to be that much more expensive compared the DC5800.

The DC5800 does have more RAM slots (4 vs. 2) and more SATA ports (4 vs. 2) though. It is also slightly smaller at 12.4 liters compared to the slim desktop version (16 liters). (NOTE: A 10 liter SFF version of the Dell does exist, but at the moment, it appears to be more rare)

So it is a tough decision to make.

If I go with the DC5800, that leaves me with the just the 3xxx series If I want to use a Xeon.

So which 3xxx Xeon do I use for this low budget project?

With the HP DC5800 being natively compatible with the Q6700, Q8200, Q8300, Q9300,Q9400,Q9650 (source: http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c04290830 ) I figure it is probably best to attempt a 3xxx Xeon with the same clockspeed and cache as the quad cores listed. Based on my budget goals I'm thinking of using a x3323 Xeon (2.5 Ghz with 6MB cache and currently $18 "buy it now" on ebay, free shipping). This (plus $2 adapter and modification of socket) gives me the performance of the $40 Q9300 at a 15 watt lower TDP. Not exactly a huge savings overall, but at this budget level and small form factor I will happily take the $20 and 15 watt reduction. This provided the modification is easy enough and the cpu works as intended.

 

[cbn]

Regarding power supplies, I checked the 12v rail ratings for the SFF Dells (both Optiplex 380 and 755).

The Dell Optiplex 380 SFF has 16 amps on the 12v rail (Ironically this is two amps more than the larger Optiplex 380 slim desktop I mentioned in post #27).

The Dell Optiplex 755 SFF has 17 amps on the 12v rail.

Of the two Dell SFF models (380 and 755), the 755 appears to much cheaper and easier to find. Newegg has them starting at $90 with Windows 7.

The major downside is that the 755 can't take a 5xxx Xeon. It has been confirmed to work with both the $40 X3363 (Xeon equivalent of the Q9550) and $18 X3323 (Xeon equivalent of the Q9300) though --> http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/3/#dell

 

[cbn]

Some more price comparisons to add to the mix:

E8400 is currently trending at $13 buy it now on ebay.

E8500 is currently trending at $17 buy it now on ebay.

EDIT: Those prices do include shipping as do the other Xeon/Core 2 quad prices I have listed in this thread.

 

[cbn]

Another slim desktop that looks interesting for a Xeon conversion is the Dell Vostro 220s.

According to delidded --> http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/3/#dell the Dell Vostro 220s with G45M03 motherboard has been tested with not only the $35 80 watt E5450 Xeon (q9650 clocks and cache) , but the high TDP X5470, X5450, X5365 Xeons as well. The X5450 Xeon is particularly interesting in that it has same Q9650 clocks and cache, but is trending at only $28 buy it now on ebay (This includes shipping). It does have a 120 watt TDP however.

Some additional Pros of the Dell Vostro 220s:

1. Listed as using a Micro ATX form factor motherboard (ie, standardized form factor, not proprietary)
2. Appears to use a standardized TFX PSU (17 amps on the 12v rail) with standardized connectors. (In fact, many companies have replacement PSU listed for this desktop)
3. Four SATA ports

Some Cons:
1. Front Bezel is glossy and judging by pictures of used units did not wear particularly well over the years.
2. Somewhat rare (I don't see a lot of units for sale,...but they do exist on ebay, etc.)
3. Only two DIMM slots (for DDR2)

Lastly, the enclosure is 14.6 liters which is the second largest behind the Dell Optiplex 380 Slim Tower at 16 liters. In contrast, the Dell Optiplex 380 SFF is 10 liters and the HP DC5800 12.4 liters.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Interesting research, thanks. Blows your mind a little bit that E8400 CPUs can be had for $13, when they used to cost $300. Pretty amazing, really. Not that shabby a CPU, even today. (Except for possibly modern gaming.)

Certainly blows away most "cat core" AMD CPUs in performance, and even many of their dual-core Trinity / Richland CPUs.

 

[cbn]

Interesting research, thanks. Blows your mind a little bit that E8400 CPUs can be had for $13, when they used to cost $300. Pretty amazing, really. Not that shabby a CPU, even today. (Except for possibly modern gaming.)

I agree that is a great price.

So for a budget gamer, what does a person with a Q chipset pre-built use? A $13 E8400 or a $17.49 X3323 (with $3 adapter and slight modification to the socket--> http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/#lga-775-socket-mod )?

($13) E8400: 3.0 Ghz dual core with 6MB cache
($17.49 + $3) X3323: 2.5 Ghz quad core with 6MB cache (2 x 3MB configuration)

Some more alternatives:

($25) Q8200: 2.33 Ghz quad core with 4MB cache (2 x 2MB configuration)

($29) Q8300: 2.5 Ghz quad core with 4MB cache (2 x 2MB configuration)

Personally, I really think that E8400 could work for a lot of people provided their expectations are realistic. With a reasonable low profile card such a cpu could make a really nice living room gaming HTPC for not much money or effort.

P.S. Someone on ebay now has several E8400s for sale, each priced at $12.50 or best offer free shipping.

 

[cbn]

Of the two Dell SFF models (380 and 755), the 755 appears to much cheaper and easier to find. Newegg has them starting at $90 with Windows 7.

Here is an alternate source for the 755 SFF:

http://arrowdirect.com/search?q=#/?_=1&filter.category_hierarchy=Desktops&page=1&sort.price=asc

$55.99 plus $11.99 shipping for a Dell 755 SFF with 2.2 Ghz Core 2 duo, 2GB, 80 GB HDD and Windows 7 Pro.

P.S. This particular model of Dell has the Q chipset and thus cannot take the 5xxx Xeon. However, it can take a $12 E8400 or a 3xxx Xeon (by using $3 adapter and slight modification to socket).

 

[cbn]

You cant tell the size of any of these computer without something sitting next to it like a Coke Can. They often picture them at an angle so you can tell the full length and width.

Here is a picture of a Dell Optiplex SFF (10 liter volume) next to some commonly used items:

 

[VirtualLarry]

DC7800 USFF, $100 FS @ Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883280751

Any idea on specs? Does it take a 2.5" HDD? DDR2 or DDR3 SO-DIMMs?

Edit: dis-assembly video:
http://1gadgetview.com/detail/hp-dc7800-ultra-slim-form-factor.html

 

[cbn]

DC7800 USFF, $100 FS @ Newegg
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883280751

Any idea on specs? Does it take a 2.5" HDD? DDR2 or DDR3 SO-DIMMs?

Edit: dis-assembly video:
http://1gadgetview.com/detail/hp-dc7800-ultra-slim-form-factor.html

Q35 chipset, so based on the picture above (from Newegg) DDR2 SO-DIMMs.

One 2.5" drive (if planning on installing a SSD check to see if the board supports AHCI. Apparently not all of these HP Core 2 era machines do)

More info below (I noticed there were no quad cores listed for the smallest form factor, but E8xxx was) :

http://www8.hp.com/h20195/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c04287277

 

[VirtualLarry]

No HDMI kind of kills it for me with the USFF units. That, and DDR2 is expensive.

 

[cbn]

No HDMI kind of kills it for me with the USFF units. That, and DDR2 is expensive.

Some of the HP USFF have display port, so you might be able to use an adapter. However, I have read posts with people claiming sound through the Display port to HDMI adapter was not working with their HP desktop models (only video).

There are also models with a USFF option that support DDR3 (like the HP 8000).

 

[cbn]

I just completed the LGA 771 Xeon to LGA 775 mod on a Dell Optiplex 360 (16 liter Slim desktop, not the 10 liter SFF model)

All I did was install the sticker on the back of my Xeon E5440 (C0 stepping) like this:

(NOTE: the adapter sticker I bought had some pads on the back of it that needed to be removed first)

http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/#how-adapter-works

And modified the socket by cutting off the two plastic tabs (circled in red):

http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/#lga-775-socket-mod

Then I installed CPU and HSF and it booted right up. (No need to update BIOS, which was A01)

It was basically a plug and play operation for me.

Now I am rocking a Harpertown Quad core at 2.83 Ghz with 12 MB cache. Sweet!!!

P.S. My advice to anyone doing this mod is to make sure you have a set of fine pointed tweezers (useful for applying the sticker to the cpu and removing the plastic tabs from the socket), a sharp knife (I used an X-acto clone from harbor freight tools) and good light so you can see what you are doing.

NOTE: As mentioned earlier in the thread, Dell Optiplex 360 doesn't fully support E0 stepping Xeons --> http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/3/#dell , but C0 steppings have been reported to work fine. Therefore if a person is contemplating this mod with Optiplex 360, look for the C0 stepping Xeons on this list ---> http://www.delidded.com/list-of-intel-lga-771-xeon-processors/ (Example: C0 stepping for E5440 is SLANS)

 

[cbn]

I just ran Performance Test 8.0 and got 4103 CPU marks compared to the average of 3935 for E5440 (51 samples):

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5440+@+2.83GHz&id=1235

Not bad! Testing will continue.

 

[Denly]

I picked up a cheap Dell 780 SFF and Dell 380 SFF, can you give me a quick run down on what's the best Xeon I can get and what else I need?

 

[Denly]

Some of the HP USFF have display port, so you might be able to use an adapter. However, I have read posts with people claiming sound through the Display port to HDMI adapter was not working with their HP desktop models (only video).

There are also models with a USFF option that support DDR3 (like the HP 8000).

I can confirm that DP to HDMI adapter work on Dell 780

 

[cbn]

I picked up a cheap Dell 780 SFF and Dell 380 SFF, can you give me a quick run down on what's the best Xeon I can get and what else I need?

1. Choosing the Xeon processors:

According to Dell Motherboard list ---> http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/3/#dell, Dell Optiplex 780 won't work with 5xxx Xeons (It has Q45 chipset).

So my advice would be to go for either X3363 or X3323.

The Dell Optiplex 380, on the other hand, can work with 5xxx Xeons so I would suggest either E5450 or E5440. I would stay with C0 steppings to play it safe. (SLANQ is C0 stepping for E5450 and SLANS is C0 stepping for E5440.)


2. Obtaining the adapters:

I can't post ebay links, but there is list of ebay sellers that can be found under #2 of this link --> http://www.delidded.com/lga-771-to-775-adapter/


3. Obtain proper installation tools:

I suggest an X-acto knife and a set of fine pointed tweezers.

You will use the tweezers to help guide the adapter sticker into proper position on the CPU. The X-acto knife is used for making a cut into both of the plastic tabs in the motherboard socket. Then the tweezers and used once again for pulling and separating the tabs out of the socket area.


4. Install CPU:

Once the adapter sticker is installed on the cpu and the two plastic tabs have been cut out of the socket you will be ready to install the cpu into the socket of the motherboard. The Dell manual, available online, is a great resource for installation steps (eg, removing and reinstalling Dell Specific heatsink fan assembly, etc).


5. Boot Desktop:

If you are lucky like me it will just boot up on the first try and the motherboard BIOS will recognize the processor as a Xeon quad core. However, in some cases, the BIOS may need to be updated.



P.S. Let us know how things worked out and what processors and stepping you used.

 

[cbn]

Some idle power and sleep numbers from my Xeon E5440 powered Dell Optiplex 360 slim desktop with GT 620 video card installed (measured with a Kill-a-watt meter) :

Idle: ~61 to ~65 watts
sleep : ~1.7 watts

So idle is rather high, but the sleep feature on Windows 8.1 and Linux Mint 17 Mate is working well to reduce power consumption when I step away from the computer. (Eg, With Linux Mint 17 Mate I have the screen set to sleep with 5 minutes of inactivity and the desktop sleeps with 10 minutes of inactivity). Awakening from sleep is extremely fast with both OSes. The major exception is that I have yet to get Linux Mint 17 Mate to awaken with just a mouse or keyboard input, instead I have to touch the desktop's power button.

NOTE: With Linux Mint 17 Mate I have noticed that "suspend mode" under "Power management" in the BIOS must be set to S3 and not S1 or the sleep feature will not work. (Fortunately S3 is the default factory setting)

 

[cbn]

I noticed Delidded.com is now providing prices for the dual core Xeons as well:

http://www.delidded.com/list-of-intel-lga-771-xeon-processors/2/

Xeon 5160 (3.0 Ghz/4MB cache) is the standout at $3 shipped, but realize it still needs an adapter sticker and will only work with certain chipsets (since it is a 5xxx Xeon).

 

[cbn]

Checking prices on ebay, the Q6600 has finally dropped to ~$20 shipped on "buy it now" listings.

 

[mjrpes3]

I've been saving money and buying used SFF C2D desktops for the workplace the last few years, because they are so much cheaper than retail or build-your-own options, and the performance of C2D isn't that bad.

However, I noticed that a used HP Elite 8200, i5-2400 was going for $170 shipped on ebay last week (SFF, 4GB, Win7 COA). I'm thinking this will be my new choice for used pc purchase going foward. Especially if it can hit under $150 in the coming months with sporadic slick deals.

An i5-2400 gives a passmark score of 5800 compared to 1500-2000 for C2D builds. The i5-4570 gets a 7000, so 2nd generation i5 is not far behind modern CPUs.

Obviously this is more than a sub $100 C2D but much less expensive than I can build an i5 desktop myself or on outlet deals. Just building a pentium class desktop with components off of amazon costs around $350 with Win7 license.

Last summer I purchased a similar Elite 6200 i5 for $300 (lowest I could find). The elite series is quiet and has expansion slots for low profile graphics cards. Nice machines.

 

[cbn]

However, I noticed that a used HP Elite 8200, i5-2400 was going for $170 shipped on ebay last week (SFF, 4GB, Win7 COA). I'm thinking this will be my new choice for used pc purchase going foward. Especially if it can hit under $150 in the coming months with sporadic slick deals.

That is a good price for that desktop considering the CPU alone is still above $100 shipped on Ebay "Buy it now" listings.

An i5-2400 gives a passmark score of 5800 compared to 1500-2000 for C2D builds. The i5-4570 gets a 7000, so 2nd generation i5 is not far behind modern CPUs.

Passmark score for LGA 771 Xeon E5440 : 4021 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5440+@+2.83GHz

Passmark score for LGA 771 Xeon E5450: 4316 cpu marks http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Xeon+E5450+@+3.00GHz

So better performance (for not much more money) is possible, but there is extra work involved (not everyone will be interested in doing the LGA 771 to LGA 775 mod) and not all C2D Pre-built models support 5xxx Xeon. (Some candidates for C0 stepping 80 watt Xeon 5xxx are Dell Optiplex 330, 360, 380).

Of course, a person could always buy Q9550 and Q9650 and get the same performance as those Xeons and be compatible with most (if not all) of the C2D Pre-builts. But unfortunately prices are still rather high on the best Core 2 quads.

Ultimately, I think comparing Core 2 Pre-built to Sandy Bridge Pre-built will depend on sale prices. I've seen C2D units with Windows 7 64 bit drop to as low as $51.75 shipped on sale, but the RAM is only 2GB and the HDD 80GB. If we see LGA 1155 units drop closer to that with more RAM and better hard drives it could mean we have a new low cost standard. With that mentioned, there is also LGA 1156 to consider as well.

P.S. Core i5-750 (LGA 1156) is now under $50 shipped on ebay "Buy it now" auctions, but it only has a passmark score of 3739 cpu marks --> http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5+750+@+2.67GHz (Still it is a more modern platform with DDR3 support on all chipsets. Core 2 only has DDR3 support on some chipsets)

 

[cbn]

Just bought one of these 3.5" to dual 2.5" drive adapters :

(With the idea this will eventually allow me to use one of the HP DC5800's unused SATA ports and SATA power connectors).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817994162

I'm liking the other features too:

Tested it on my HP DC5800 and it worked great using the HP factory screws with washers (that come installed on the factory installed 3.5" HDD).

P.S. I would imagine this would work with other HP Pre-builts that share the same slotted mounting installation for the 3.5" drive.

 

[cbn]

Looking more carefully at my HP DC 5800, I am able to fit a 2.5" SDD on top of the 3.5" HDD, (SSD is sandwiched in between 3.5" HDD and PSU).

Some method of attaching the SSD will be required though.