What will be AMD'S next Move?

[Attic]

Another thing to consider relative to the 970/980 release is what gets folks to upgrade?

Is it a demanding game? - No game comes to mind that needs more power than what GPU's were delivering prior to 970/980 release

Is it efficiency?

Is it resolution?

What's going to get people up to drop 3-5 hundo on a GPU? Has a game release required more power?

The 4k bug could drive sales of newer gpu's. The high DPI 21:9 monitors


I think AMD lowering prices makes more sense than rushing to get a new part out at this point.


AMD may tie in a release to an upcoming game?

 

[SlowSpyder]

I honestly believe most of us buy not out of need, but want. My 7970 @ 1125/1450MHz still chews through 19x12 in the games I play. But I still want, and am going to get, a GTX970 or a second 7970/R9 280X. I don't think until 1080P starts to get pushed to the backseat and 4k becomes the norm will people upgrade out of need. This is all of course generally speaking.

 

[dmcowen674]

What will be AMD'S next Move?

IMO that AMD next gen cards wont come until next year so will they price drop there gpu further or they are in a safe side?

Plz dont flame in this topic and i just want to know opinions.

You will find out tomorrow
========================================================
AMD has a GPU-related event scheduled for Sept. 25.

Investors interested in both AMD and NVIDIA should pay close attention to the material that comes out of that.

 

[positivedoppler]

You will find out tomorrow
========================================================
AMD has a GPU-related event scheduled for Sept. 25.

Investors interested in both AMD and NVIDIA should pay close attention to the material that comes out of that.

Excitement died when I found it was only for India.

 

[AtenRa]

Excitement died when I found it was only for India.

It must be the first AMD product solely produced for India

 

[Erenhardt]

Excitement died when I found it was only for India.

Let me cast some sparks on that spilled petrol:

https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/513467158316077057

Winston Churchill loved men who grinned when fighting. AMD relishes competition. You ain't seen nothing yet.

hl3 confirmed!

 

[RussianSensation]

I honestly believe most of us buy not out of need, but want. My 7970 @ 1125/1450MHz still chews through 19x12 in the games I play. But I still want, and am going to get, a GTX970 or a second 7970/R9 280X. I don't think until 1080P starts to get pushed to the backseat and 4k becomes the norm will people upgrade out of need. This is all of course generally speaking.

But you know what people in this thread who claim doom and gloom for AMD don't get? If I am upgrading for only a 40% increase from 7970 OC to 970 OC or from dual 7970s OC to dual 970s OC, that means I will be just as likely to 'waste' $$$ for another 40% increase after 970/970s. In other words in 1.5 years I will be upgrading again. On the other hand, if I want 2x the performance, 970 and 980 fail at giving me that at 7970's price nearly 3 years later, which leaves me waiting to 2015.

In the first case it means even if I switch to NV, in 1.5 years AMD and NV are competing for another upgrade from me OR 970/980 did nothing to make me move away from 7970s.

My point is the biggest incentive to upgrade are next gen PC games. Otherwise you'll just capture the hardcore segment in the otherwise shrinking dGPU market. Therefore, the only way to claim death for AMD is if they will never release anything better than 290X. Who believes that?

 

[amenx]

I dont think AMD is so much concerned about actual sales for their current high end but more about brand perception in the market. Their bread and butter (in GPU division) are the lesser cards in their line-up. What the 970 does is shake up that perception which can trickle down to affect their overall sales with Nvidia being perceived as 'the brand' to buy.

 

[Erenhardt]

Therefore, the only way to claim death for AMD is if they will never release anything better than 290X. Who believes that?

I believe... in the way that amd will never more have such small chip compete against much bigger nv die made on the same process. Beating competition in all metrics but power consumption (marginally worst than nv). There wont be better cards that paid for itself in the of time. :sneaky:

 

[escrow4]

For those thinking its overkill, a 980 or 780 Ti still isn't enough for 1200p with the settings maxed including some form of AA (say MSAA 4x) in some games at a solid 50-60FPS. Even Borderlands 2 with PhysX maxed killed my frames with fat dips. Disable AA and you still have Crysis 3 or maybe Metro where it still is barely enough. Never mind 1600p or 4K or upcoming ports.

 

[Redstorm]

Another thing to consider relative to the 970/980 release is what gets folks to upgrade?

Because you need to, My aging 5870 Lightning cannot deliver Elite Dangerous at 1600p with playable frame rates, i have to drop the res to 1920x1200.

The limitation is the 1GB frame buffer, just does not have enough room for the 30" resolution.

So my reason for upgrading is need not want.

 

[SlowSpyder]

But you know what people in this thread who claim doom and gloom for AMD don't get? If I am upgrading for only a 40% increase from 7970 OC to 970 OC or from dual 7970s OC to dual 970s OC, that means I will be just as likely to 'waste' $$$ for another 40% increase after 970/970s. In other words in 1.5 years I will be upgrading again. On the other hand, if I want 2x the performance, 970 and 980 fail at giving me that at 7970's price nearly 3 years later, which leaves me waiting to 2015.

In the first case it means even if I switch to NV, in 1.5 years AMD and NV are competing for another upgrade from me OR 970/980 did nothing to make me move away from 7970s.

My point is the biggest incentive to upgrade are next gen PC games. Otherwise you'll just capture the hardcore segment in the otherwise shrinking dGPU market. Therefore, the only way to claim death for AMD is if they will never release anything better than 290X. Who believes that?

Exactly, the next big GPU release, as long as it's not a dud, will make some people jump ship. Think about it, who are Intel, AMD, and Nvidia catering to these days with desktop parts? Enthusiasts, gamers, and professionals. Very few average Joes buy desktops anymore, mobile is where it is at for the mainstream. AMD and Nvidia make a lot of money from people jumping from very playable rigs to whatever their next release is. And if AMD's next release is a decent part, people will buy it.

Maxwell looks very good, AMD has some work cut out for them. But it hardly looks like an insurmountable mountain to climb. The R9 290 competed very favorably to the GTX780 and even the much more expensive Titan. The R9 295 more or less made Titan Z an internet joke (though Nvidia set themselves up for that one with a $3k price... I wonder how many people are happy to have Titan Z in one slot vs. two GTX970's in two slots :awe: ). I'm just hoping for a bit of a price war, Nvidia's very decent $330 price won't be easy to undercut, especially if the next AMD part uses water cooling. But either a performance war or price war are welcome by me, I could use a cheap second card.

 

[SlowSpyder]

For those thinking its overkill, a 980 or 780 Ti still isn't enough for 1200p with the settings maxed including some form of AA (say MSAA 4x) in some games at a solid 50-60FPS. Even Borderlands 2 with PhysX maxed killed my frames with fat dips. Disable AA and you still have Crysis 3 or maybe Metro where it still is barely enough. Never mind 1600p or 4K or upcoming ports.

I'm certainly not suggesting that a 7970 will pump out 60FPS+ in every game there is with maxed settings and . I just got done playing Diablo III for a few hours with everything maxed, SSAA (*edit - that's 2x SSAA). Pretty much 60FPS the whole time. There are other games that are more demanding, obviously. I tried The Witcher III with ubersampling, it got choppy. But I bet an OC'd 7970 can play any game with all to almost all setting maxed yet at 1080P. Often there is a setting or two that can be turned down and just isn't worth the performance penalty for the visual improvement. The question is, is it worth hundreds of dollars to be able to turn on that setting? From a practical standpoint, probably not. But we're gamers and enthusiasts so many of us make the jump to the next part even if we don't "need" to.

 

[Wall Street]

I know that I will probably end completely wrong, but I will guess anyways. I predict tomorrow's announcement is a R9 285X based on a fully enabled Tonga. Price: $299. AMD will conduct price drops after the release of the GTX 960. They will do this to save face on avoiding an immediate price cut to the 285 and to make sure they they only need one round of price cuts.

 

[PPB]

Another thing to consider relative to the 970/980 release is what gets folks to upgrade?

Is it a demanding game? - No game comes to mind that needs more power than what GPU's were delivering prior to 970/980 release

Is it efficiency?

Is it resolution?

What's going to get people up to drop 3-5 hundo on a GPU? Has a game release required more power?

The 4k bug could drive sales of newer gpu's. The high DPI 21:9 monitors


I think AMD lowering prices makes more sense than rushing to get a new part out at this point.


AMD may tie in a release to an upcoming game?

There are different kind of buyers.

The enthusiast that just buy whatever is new. This one was the one that bought Tahiti at launch prices, then switched to 670/80s. This one gives almost 50/50 of their attention to either company.

The loyal fan that only buys one GPU maker. Like Russian said, the NV packs quite a lot more in this group that AMD, whose fans are actually perf/price fans most of the time (the same people that is buying 970's at that killer price)

And the dude that buys every major performance improvement from either company, usually buys only 1 gpu from each manufacturing process and stick with it until it is no longer suitable for their gaming requeriments (if the budget allows).

Performance is important for all 3 of them. Perf/watt is only really important for the second group when it favours their GPU brand of choice (just see this thread to confirm this) and it might be a factor for the third group, mosty because of budget reasons (PSU reqs, etc). Perf/price is only important for the third group mostly, the first group coming second, the middle group just doesnt care about perf/price and are just willing to let go a killer oportunity in perf/price just because it wasnt made by their GPU brand of choice

 

[piesquared]

Does AMD even need much of a price cut? A small correction would be in order I guess, but Mantle allows AMD to carry a premium for their cards and its warranted. If Mantle allows for a better gaming experience in upcoming titles like Civ: Beyond Earth with Radeon graphics cards then they should carry a premium because of it. I think some people are underestimating just how good Mantle is. That's straight from developers too. What if Mantle makes a noticeable difference in Civilization: Beyond Earth. What will those millions of Civ players want for hardware? Mantle gives Radeon graphics significant added value IMO.

 

[desprado]

It is pretty much sure that we wont anything new from AMD till 2015 middle
http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-390x-arrives-1h-2015-feature-hydra-liquid-cooling/

 

[SPBHM]

I wonder how the 960 is going to affect things, it could be cheaper and much faster than anything Tonga, from what I can see right now AMD should make the 290 cheaper than the 970 (like $299) and sell full tonga for $200 or less,

 

[desprado]

I wonder how the 960 is going to affect things, it could be cheaper and much faster than anything Tonga, from what I can see right now AMD should make the 290 cheaper than the 970 (like $299) and sell full tonga for $200 or less,

Yes this should be there short term planning.

 

[SantaAna12]

Let me cast some sparks on that spilled petrol:

https://twitter.com/amd_roy/status/513467158316077057

hl3 confirmed!

Cheap tittilation!

FWIW.....sli 460s.....great.....crossfire 5850s....great......what is next?

Large psu in my future I think!

Bring it on AMD!!!

 

[f1sherman]

Does AMD even need much of a price cut? A small correction would be in order I guess, but Mantle allows AMD to carry a premium for their cards and its warranted. If Mantle allows for a better gaming experience in upcoming titles like Civ: Beyond Earth with Radeon graphics cards then they should carry a premium because of it. I think some people are underestimating just how good Mantle is. That's straight from developers too. What if Mantle makes a noticeable difference in Civilization: Beyond Earth. What will those millions of Civ players want for hardware? Mantle gives Radeon graphics significant added value IMO.

That train has already left the station and is accelerating.

Although... Mantle is great - alas, but only when used(!)
And at least on Hawaii, GCN1.0 still problematic, and Tonga is a disaster.
But Mantle is still pretty much nothing than a BF4 perf. driver(a good one)

So you can't seriously be comparing - Tonga/Hawaii-Mantle vs GM204-DX12. Thats not much of a dilemma.

PS
Civ is a turn-based game. Sounds like a great candidate for DSR and 30fps, instead of say Mantle and 40fps.

 

[desprado]

Some people wont Admit though but Nvidia can play a waiting game even 6 to 7 months if they want and it wont hurt there sale but AMD cannot because there position is not strong like Nvidia in the market so my advice is that u can just Hype ur next product even if it is coming next year so some people can get there hopes up again.

 

[piesquared]

That train has already left the station and is accelerating.

Although... Mantle is great - alas, but only when used(!)
And at least on Hawaii, GCN1.0 still problematic, and Tonga is a disaster.
But Mantle is still pretty much nothing than a BF4 perf. driver(a good one)

So you can't seriously be comparing - Tonga/Hawaii-Mantle vs GM204-DX12. Thats not much of a dilemma.

PS
Civ is a turn-based game. Sounds like a great candidate for DSR and 30fps, instead of say Mantle and 40fps.

LOL you wish. Although thats obviously the narrative NV marketing are trying to push. Fact is, Mantle is becoming well established, used in multiple games with more on the way, and adoption rate is higher than DX 10 or DX 11. Devs wanted it, they got what they wanted, and they like it. So yeah, I'm absolutely comparing GCN and Mantle/DX12 to Maxwell with DX12.
You're right there's no dilemma though. AMD and partners have Mantle on the market for nearly a year already, while NV will have to wait still another year. It seems pretty clear who has the overwhelming lead with experience on low level APIs. DX12 is irrelevant at this point in time, but if you are suggesting AMD won't be ready I think you need to reconsider.
You claim the BF4 Mantle path is merely a minor improvement in performance. I guess you missed the part about it being a much smoother and enjoyable user experience.
As for Civ: Beyond Earth and Mantle, what in the world is DSR going to do to reduce draw calls when there are a huge amount of units in play compared to Mantle??

Also, lets assume that Mantle does in fact have a significant impact on performance and game play experience, since that is what the developers themselves have said. I bet we'll see Radeon cards hold their value quite well.

 

[MTDEW]

For those still wondering/hoping.
SOURCE

This has been an amusing thread to review, but the teasers you saw coming from the AMD India account were to promote a launch event in India for the R9 285.

We have the @AMDRadeon account followed by 269,000 people if we wanted to tease a brand new product. This should have been the first litmus test anyone applied.

 

[f1sherman]

No, I claim BF4 Mantle is good.

And I claim that in turn based game, IQ is more important to me than FPS.

As to huge amount of draw-calls in turn based Civ(another terrible Mantle candidate),
first thats ridiculous programming at best, intentional crippling move at worst.

Speaking of intentionally making huge number of draw calls just for the fun of it - DX11 Nvidia does fine in Star Swarm, let alone modern DX12