What will happen if materials for a nuclear bomb are found in the U.S.?

[techs]

If Islamic or other terrorists manage to get some parts and material in the US to build a nuclear bomb will it be the end of freedom as we know it?
I ask because we gave away so many Constitutional freedoms over 9-11.
I believe if it were to happen national identification cards would immediatly be issued. Followed by some form of rfid tags on everyone. The government would monitor ALL communications searching for keywords. Massive internet restrictions would try to prevent us from any type of info on bombmaking, radical webisites, etc.
Tens of thousands of people with radical ideas like Libertarians would be rounded up and held indefinitly. Uniformed security forces would be everywhere. Possibly all Muslims would be rounded up and put into camps. Some large number of people would have travel restrictions place on them. Possibly in the tens of millions. Required classes in schools to preach government sponsered "awareness" of your neighbors "unusual" activities. An immeditate military draft followed by invasion of Iran and North Korea (which we will get approval from China from by agreeing to their economic dominance).
Government censorship of the press.
Never has our way of life been so threatened by the possible actions of a few.
Anyone else care to speculate?

 

[Forsythe]

That terrorists should be able to build a nuke is a load of crock. It requires loads of excperience and all that.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
That terrorists should be able to build a nuke is a load of crock. It requires loads of excperience and all that.

I agree but what will happen if they do smuggle in some components?

 

[slyedog]

how paranoid can one be? be careful in 2006. you might be falling off the edge of the earth.

 

[Pabster]

Originally posted by: slyedog
how paranoid can one be? be careful in 2006. you might be falling off the edge of the earth.

:laugh: :laugh:

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: slyedog
how paranoid can one be? be careful in 2006. you might be falling off the edge of the earth.

Is techs' premise not one that was sold to us by the Propagandist post-9/11 and in the run-up to the Iraq invasion?

"Knowing these realities, America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof - the smoking gun - that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."

Source: President Bush Outlines Iraqi Threat; Remarks by the President on Iraq, White House (10/7/2002).



"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction. There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies, and against us."

Source: Vice President Speaks at VFW 103rd National Convention, White House (8/26/2002).

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
That terrorists should be able to build a nuke is a load of crock. It requires loads of excperience and all that.

Not really. A "cannon-type" uranium based fission bomb of say 15-20 kiloton (same size as the Hiroshima bomb) isn't very difficult to design and build. You can find a lot of information is just about any book about nuclear physics (there is a short chapter about bombs in the book I used at university).
The first (simplfied) blueprints were published in 1946 (it might have ben 1947) in the offical report from the Manhattan project. The reason they published was simply that they anyone with any knowledge of nuclear physics could probably guess how it was designed anyway.

I think just about anyone with a Ph.D in phyics (including me) could design a working bomb in a few months.
The main problem is getting hold of the uranium.

A plutonium based bomb is much more difficult to build and fusion based devices (hundreds of kikitons or even megaton) is even more difficult.

 

[IGBT]

..if a credible threat is identified.. life as you know it will change ie.all cargo containers will need to be physicly inspected and world wide shipping will stop untill measures are in place to inspect all cargo holds. And that would be only the beginning.

 

[EatSpam]

There'd a lot of prayin' goin' on. Then Bush would declare himself dictator. Then we'd realize it wasn't a bomb, but a hot dog stand run by an American Citizen who has parents who immigrated from Iraq. Then we'd invade Portugal. Haliburton would get richer. Gas prices would go up.

 

[catnap1972]

Originally posted by: EatSpam
There'd a lot of prayin' goin' on. Then Bush would declare himself dictator. Then we'd realize it wasn't a bomb, but a hot dog stand run by an American Citizen who has parents who immigrated from Iraq. Then we'd invade Portugal. Haliburton would get richer. Gas prices would go up.

And those gays STILL wouldn't be able to get married!

Phew!

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: EatSpam
There'd a lot of prayin' goin' on. Then Bush would declare himself dictator. Then we'd realize it wasn't a bomb, but a hot dog stand run by an American Citizen who has parents who immigrated from Iraq. Then we'd invade Portugal. Haliburton would get richer. Gas prices would go up.

And those gays STILL wouldn't be able to get married!

Phew!

And its for the best, because after TERRAR!!!, gays getting married is the biggest threat to America, EVAR!!!

 

[msparish]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
That terrorists should be able to build a nuke is a load of crock. It requires loads of excperience and all that.

If you have weapon grade uranium, building a nuke isn't too difficult. I imagine that someone with my educational experience might be able to do it (I'm finishing up my B.S. in physics) given enough time. The concepts are very easy to understand and are widely available. Basically you just have to compress a sufficient amount of uranium so that it reaches "critical mass." Much of the more advanced knowledge is to optimize the weapon. The problem is getting the material...luckily not widely available from your friendly neighborhood arms dealer.

Edit: clarification

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Forsythe
That terrorists should be able to build a nuke is a load of crock. It requires loads of excperience and all that.

If you have weapon grade uranium, building a nuke isn't too difficult. I imagine that someone with my educational experience might be able to do it (I'm finishing up my B.S. in physics) given enough time. The concepts are very easy to understand and are widely available. Basically you just have to compress a sufficient amount of uranium so that it reaches "critical mass." Much of the more advanced knowledge is to optimize the weapon. The problem is getting the material...luckily not widely available from your friendly neighborhood arms dealer.

Edit: clarification

Which is why when about 8 oz. of enriched uranium is found in the US we can kiss our democracy goodbye.

 

[dahunan]

didn't some news organization already sneak the materials in once just to show the govt. how much our security sucks?

 

[2Xtreme21]

I've been saying... the next terror attack / big terror alert will be the end of freedom in the US.

 

[Todd33]

Knowing the concepts of an A-bomb is a lot different than building one. Unless they bought a complete bomb then they would only be able to build a dirty bomb. I've also never seen instructions for a bomb in a physics book, please tell the author's name. I used to work at one of the largest weapons lab and know a few people still there, I doubt any of them could build one either, it's just not a basement type project.

 

[dahunan]

I would guess that cash and knowledge will not be a problem.. just logistics.. Oil rich terrorists . hmmm

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: msparish

Originally posted by: Forsythe
That terrorists should be able to build a nuke is a load of crock. It requires loads of excperience and all that.

If you have weapon grade uranium, building a nuke isn't too difficult. I imagine that someone with my educational experience might be able to do it (I'm finishing up my B.S. in physics) given enough time. The concepts are very easy to understand and are widely available. Basically you just have to compress a sufficient amount of uranium so that it reaches "critical mass." Much of the more advanced knowledge is to optimize the weapon. The problem is getting the material...luckily not widely available from your friendly neighborhood arms dealer.

Edit: clarification

Which is why when about 8 oz. of enriched uranium is found in the US we can kiss our democracy goodbye.

Well, it might happen if 8 oz were found, but a single critical mass for a well-enriched Uranium-235 bomb is about 15kg of 90% U235/238. For a gun-type device, you'd need at least 1.5X critical mass, or 20-25kg - more than 800 ounces, or 100 times what you suggested.

 

[irwincur]

Not if but when...

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: irwincur
Not if but when...

Geez, and you guys suggest we liberals are guilty of "doom and gloom".

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: Forsythe
That terrorists should be able to build a nuke is a load of crock. It requires loads of excperience and all that.

Originally posted by: slyedog
how paranoid can one be? be careful in 2006. you might be falling off the edge of the earth.

That would all be fun speculation if it werent for a guy from Pakistan named A.Q. Kahn, who provided complete plans and lots of parts to a number of countries, including Pakistan, Iran, North Korea that we know of, any of which could easily become a source for those who would want to use nukes, here. You don't have to be a nuclear scientist to follow assembly plans. :shocked:

Of course, it could also happen if Bush decides to try to boost employment by dosing a lot of Americans with rads so they can get jobs as nightlights. :light:

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: Todd33
Knowing the concepts of an A-bomb is a lot different than building one. Unless they bought a complete bomb then they would only be able to build a dirty bomb. I've also never seen instructions for a bomb in a physics book, please tell the author's name. I used to work at one of the largest weapons lab and know a few people still there, I doubt any of them could build one either, it's just not a basement type project.

"Introductory Nuclear Physics" by Kenneth S. Krane

I didn't say there were explicit instructions. As I remember most of the basic information is in there: The amount of uranium you need (including purit), design of the cannon etc
There is also information about blast radius and how large the affected area will be.

You need to keep in mind that when we talk about "A-bombs" we generally mean plutonium based weapons which are very complicated, a uranium based bomb is MUCH simpler (it is also bigger and less efficient than plutonium based bombs, amd I am not sure you can use it to initiate a fusion reaction).
Of course I can't be sure but I think I could probably come up with a working design if I spent a few months on research (nothing secret, just information which is available to the public). I suspect my main problem would be that I do not have any experience with explosives (for the canon) but I guess the required information is available.

Even during the Manhattan project they were quite confident about their design of the uranium bomb (which is why it was never tested before it was used). The main design issue was how to design a canon which was short enough to fit in the bomb-bay of an aircraft.

 

[XZeroII]

Hey! Stay out of my back yard!

 

[tommywishbone]

When this happens, you guys call me (collect if you want) and I'll send everybody a free bar a gold. Why free gold? Because robbing Fort Knox will be easier than building a nuke. Don't beleive the hype.

Happy New Year!

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: tommywishbone
When this happens, you guys call me (collect if you want) and I'll send everybody a free bar a gold. Why free gold? Because robbing Fort Knox will be easier than building a nuke. Don't beleive the hype.

Happy New Year!

LOL... you'd be funny if you weren't so far from the truth.