what would be the best way to eliminate isis/al queda

[K7SN]

What is the only difference between a fundamental Muslim and a fundamental Christian; Christian's call their Jihad a Crusade.

 

[bradley]

Or... maybe just leave them the fuck alone ion the first place?
GW not only stirred up this can or worms, this hornets nest, GW went further with creating new hornets nests to worry about.
Aw GW and Dick Cheney. The gifts that just keep on giving, and giving, and giving.......

Does your history stop with the Obama Administration's intervention in Libya? You know... Hillary Clinton's mess of a war as chief architect. Or has everyone been lulled to sleep by the same old nonsense with Bush in absentia?

 

[disappoint]

Well first you call them the Junior Varsity team.
Then you kick them off your Varsity basketball court.
Then you pity their fans.
For being fans of the amputation regime team.
...
Profit?

 

[disappoint]

Everyone ignores the 800lb gorilla in the corner on this question.

The root problem here is actually Saudi Arabia and the petrodollar arrangement.

Lots of people have said nuclear energy is dangerous. I wonder if they are starting to realize how much more dangerous oil energy is.

 

[Darwin333]

i don't think sending in troops to kill all the sunni muslims is a good idea. they'll just grow back

they need their own sunni government free of iranian influence maybe? maybe find a kinder, gentler saddam hussein?

Why do we need to eliminate them at all? Last I checked they haven't fucked with us here in the mainland. Sure they might fuck with us when we are in their backyard but wtf do you expect?

I say leave them be to do whatever the fuck they are going to do and let the interested parties handle them however they see fit. We can watch it on CNN.

 

[alcoholbob]

Ask Moonbeam, he says he has all the answers and it starts with a "C".

 

[woolfe9998]

I admire your sentiment, but that doesn't answer my question. What does america gain from involving itself in this besides increasing the terror threat domestically

Arguably one could say we are elevating democracy and increasing our geopolitical standing, but is that worth more civilian lives? Would say it was worth it if somebody in your family was killed in an attack that wouldn't have happened had we avoided involvement?

It can't be argued that it would make us safer as a country, nor would it make us any richer as a country. The war will 100% result in more animosity towards the US and ISIS has demonstrated that they make good on their threats. As of yet, we aren't their main target. It will also cost anywhere from 50 billion to a few trillion dollars like Iraq and Afghanistan have cost us because we will be the ones who will rebuild the country.

I disagree that it won't make us safer. It won't make us safer in the short run. It will in the longer term. ISIS isn't going away without a major ground assault from one or more competent armies. In the meantime, they control over 10 million people and billions in oil revenue. Look at what Al Qaeda was able to do on 9/11 with far less than that. And these people are if anything more militant and resourceful than Al Qaeda.

The fallacy of your position is that you assume they will leave us alone if we just pull out and stop attacking them. If that is what you believe, then you don't understand who these people are and what is motivating them.

The direct security benefit stems not only from depriving them of state level resources, but also from the fact that probably a quarter of the world's violent jihadists are now in one geographical region instead of being scattered throughout the globe. Killing or capturing the vast majority of them can only be a security benefit to the US and to the rest of the world.

There's a second rationale besides security. I believe it is legitimate to use our military for humanitarian reasons. ISIS is slaughtering people, raping and enslaving women, and destroying antiquities. This is a chance to use our military for the right reasons, unlike engagements we've had in the past like the Iraq war and Vietnam.

I don't expect you or anyone else to agree on this point. It is a subjective thing when atrocities have reached a point to warrant our intervention, and I'm fully aware that some people wouldn't want us to ever use it for this reason.

Bottom line, the rationale for ground forces here is 1000x better than it was for many past uses of our military.

I'm open to suggestions about how to eliminate ISIS without an American ground offensive. If we could step up our assistance in some way without escalating it to a US ground assault, and this will work, I'd support it. However, so far I haven't seen many alternatives proposed. There is essentially a) pull out, b) airstrikes and training/aid, or c) ground attack. If there's something between b and c that will cause the end of ISIS within a reasonable time, I'd like to hear it. So far the ideas of GOP critics of Obama for more aggressive action short of a ground attack don't sound like they will accomplish much more than the present strategy.

What isn't an option so far as I'm concerned is to walk away and let these people have a state, and pretend that it won't cause us any problems down the road. That's just sticking our heads in the sand.

 

[Zorkorist]

We have to empower people, to eliminate Al Qaeda/ISIS.

It's tragic that the fight hasn't escalated into asking the "other" regimes in the region to step up, admit that they are wrong, and take responsibility for the people of the region.

Religion and Government both need to look internally and reassess their purpose. Their purpose is solely the betterment of their constituents, the people.

We as Americans, have revolted against Government, have separated Religion from State, and that has helped us prosper as a nation. We need to help these other countries do the same.

Freedom, should be our motto. Freedom, from Religion. Freedom, from Government. Freedom, is the key.

-John

 

[brycejones]

We have to empower people, to eliminate Al Qaeda/ISIS.

It's tragic that the fight hasn't escalated into asking the "other" regimes in the region to step up, admit that they are wrong, and take responsibility for the people of the region.

Religion and Government both need to look internally and reassess their purpose. Their purpose is solely the betterment of their constituents, the people.

We as Americans, have revolted against Government, have separated Religion from State, and that has helped us prosper as a nation. We need to help these other countries do the same.

Freedom, should be our motto. Freedom, from Religion. Freedom, from Government. Freedom, is the key.

-John

I think they need you in Syria evangelizing your views. You're committed to the cause right?

 

[Zorkorist]

lol Bryce. Your hate is just dripping. I feel sorry for you.

-John

 

[brycejones]

lol Bryce. Your hate is just dripping. I feel sorry for you.

-John

No hate. I gave you a concrete way to put your ideas into action.

I do pity your liver though.

 

[Zorkorist]

OK, but if I am going in anywhere, I am going in to Saudi Arabia.

-John

 

[sandorski]

ISIS needs to be destroyed. Even if that means just causing them to disband with some of them just going off to other groups. Deal with each group as they rise up, that would be better than dealing with an organization as large and powerful as ISIS.

Other things need to occur as well, such as stop treating the Middle East as political fodder. Iran for eg, ok, they held your Embassy staff hostage a fuckton of years ago. It's time to get over it and quit acting as if it's still going on. Criticize those nations that continue to suppress Freedoms of various sorts, put diplomatic pressures on them as necessary, but at least treat them with some level of respect that you would for any other nation in any other region in the world.

Regardless what we do, these kinds of attacks will continue to occur for some time. It will probably take decades before we solve this issue. All this is thanks to the fucked up decision to start the Iraq War. We're 12 years into that fail, many of us will have died before the affects of it no longer resonates.

 

[Zorkorist]

They attacked us first!

George Bush and Iraq War was our response to the horror of 9/11.

We should immediately involve the "safe states" of Saudi Arabia etc., and say this is "YOUR PROBLEM" fix it.

If they aren't in Syria, etc. by a week from now, we will pull our support.

-John

 

[WhipperSnapper]

All of you, don't stand idly by, be as motivated as if one presented ISIS propaganda, loudly condemn the criminal and terrorising bullshit typed out by the likes of WhipperSnapper and many other fellow AnandTech members. Zero tolerance. Such agendas and personalities are not welcome by a shared community and should be soundly ostracized.

You're just a pacificst mamby-pamby social justice warrior with an inflated view of your pathetic intellect.

Let me guess, you would have opposed fighting Japan and Nazi Germany during World War II, right? Isn't saying that the enemy forces need to be eradicated the same as wishing genocide upon them? You would have opposed air raids of Germany and Japan because of concerns over collateral damage?

I'm all in favor of eradicating ISIS and if that means bombing the beejeezus out of ISIS held territory and doing whatever is necessary to kill ISIS soldiers, including biological warfare, then that's great.

 

[woolfe9998]

Other things need to occur as well, such as stop treating the Middle East as political fodder. Iran for eg, ok, they held your Embassy staff hostage a fuckton of years ago. It's time to get over it and quit acting as if it's still going on. Criticize those nations that continue to suppress Freedoms of various sorts, put diplomatic pressures on them as necessary, but at least treat them with some level of respect that you would for any other nation in any other region in the world.

Yeah, that's true, but don't you think it's also high time for the Iranians to get over the fact that we supported the Shah 4 decades ago? Well they haven't. It takes two to have a rapprochement.

 

[sandorski]

Yeah, that's true, but don't you think it's also high time for the Iranians to get over the fact that we supported the Shah 4 decades ago? Well they haven't. It takes two to have a rapprochement.

Agreed. I think they will if they are not being threatened. I could be wrong about that, but I suspect their continued Anti-American position is mostly motivated by the need to be ready in case the US does choose to attack them.

 

[woolfe9998]

Agreed. I think they will if they are not being threatened. I could be wrong about that, but I suspect their continued Anti-American position is mostly motivated by the need to be ready in case the US does choose to attack them.

I dunno, they have state censored media there and they have been bombarding the populace with anti-American rhetoric for decades. I think they will prove more intransigent than the U.S. They may come round eventually, but it will be a long time from now.

 

[blankslate]

The best way to stop them has come and gone...

Going forward it's important to leverage the nearby Countries' self interest and get them to do more since more overt western interference inflames ISIS.

Yeah, that's true, but don't you think it's also high time for the Iranians to get over the fact that we supported the Shah 4 decades ago? Well they haven't. It takes two to have a rapprochement.

Rapprochement is now something that we may be on the way to reaching now that the Iran Nuclear deal is mostly agreed upon. Funny how certain members of the U.S. government still want to fuck it up.

Just because Iran is an Islamic country doesn't mean that they are natural allies of ISIS.

Remember, it took the U.S. several decades at least to find common military, economic, and political objectives with the U.K.

afaik it was the late 1800's to early 1900's for that to finally really happen.


.....

 

[Atreus21]

Or... maybe just leave them the fuck alone ion the first place?
GW not only stirred up this can or worms, this hornets nest, GW went further with creating new hornets nests to worry about.
Aw GW and Dick Cheney. The gifts that just keep on giving, and giving, and giving.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

 

[michal1980]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

those were also bushs' fault.

everything is GW fault. Obama being in power the ~7 years is not responsible for anything.

 

[Whiskey16]

The relatively silent stands (yet another full page and only two others stood up....ignored by the rest) by membership and thereby implicit tolerance is perpetuating a culture in this society that is truly fucked up:

You're just a pacificst mamby-pamby social justice warrior with an inflated view of your pathetic intellect.

...doing whatever is necessary to kill ISIS soldiers, including biological warfare, then that's great.

It's still posting incitement to high crimes and genocide with self-righteous impunity:

What about biological warfare? Ebola? Plague? I've also wondered if there might be some sort of a way to put a birth control agent or something that causes sterilization in the water.

Full on generalised hate speech to enable the commission of high crimes.

....A path to yet another vile final solution....

Yet another abuse of the privilege to post by using this forum to incite hatred and the commission terrorising crimes against a targeted group -- explicitly again, Muslims.

The crime of "genocide" defined in internation law

"Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: ​

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
​

It is highly doubtful that there are any ISIS sympathisers let alone members at AnandTech, yet there are certainly equal opposites in their expressions of hate and murderous terror. We can and should directly confront our own radicalised extremists.

All of you, don't stand idly by, be as motivated as if one presented ISIS propaganda, loudly condemn the criminal and terrorising bullshit typed out by the likes of WhipperSnapper and many other fellow AnandTech members. Zero tolerance. Such agendas and personalities are not welcome by a shared community and should be soundly ostracized.

 

[flexy]

ISIS is not some organization with a "HQ" somewhere in a particular country.
They are in Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morocco, Yemen, Libya and last but not least there are sure some in the US, UK, France, Germany etc.

So you just can't go in "and bomb the shit out of them". WHERE?

Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Morocco, Yemen, Libya??

Maybe now you understand why we didn't "go in" there yet, because it would mean military/intelligence basically in ALL the fricking Middle East...and then there for decades. This is not something like back then where we bombed Saddam where all it took was a couple days bombing Baghdad to topple a regime.

 

[debian0001]

Extract us from the Middleast and let Israel go.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

The relatively silent stands (yet another full page and only two others stood up....ignored by the rest) by membership and thereby implicit tolerance is perpetuating a culture in this society that is truly fucked up:It's still posting incitement to high crimes and genocide with self-righteous impunity:

Why don't you make some sort of argument in favor of pacifism and multicultural "understanding" instead of mindlessly posting the same drivel again?

All of you, don't stand idly by, be as motivated as if one presented ISIS propaganda, loudly condemn the criminal and terrorising bullshit typed out by the likes of WhipperSnapper and many other fellow AnandTech members. Zero tolerance. Such agendas and personalities are not welcome by a shared community and should be soundly ostracized.

In your view ideas you disagree with should be banned from expression on the Internet? Do you think the government should tell people what they can and cannot say? Are you hoping to impose some sort of communist dictatorship where the government controls every aspect of people's thought? You sure sound like it. Heck, what you're suggesting is just as bad as or worse than ISIS.

Whiskey16 is an opponent of free speech! He wants to control your thoughts and eliminate your freedom of expression. He wants to tell you what you can and cannot say on the Internet. He's the kind of guy who would send the police to your door because you posted a politically incorrect thought on the Internet. Whiskey's intolerance of free expression and debate should not be welcome in a shared community and he should be soundly ostracized. We should have zero tolerance for the chilling effect his proposed political correctness would have on political discussions.

This guy thinks he's some sort of genius social justice warrior, advocating political correctness, but he's actually a complete moron.

Full on generalised hate speech to enable the commission of high crimes.

So a war against a nation that is attacking is you a "high crime"?

I stand by the birth control agents comment, too, at least as it applies to territories controlled by ISIS. Preventing people from breeding irrationally and indoctrinating children with a poisonous ideology is a form of self defense and more humane than simply killing all the people. The world would be a better place without the Muslim religion. Sorry if the truth hurts.People can renounce Islam and choose to become atheists or non-Muslims if they don't like being viewed as a potential threat. (Of course, their neighbors would probably kill them for that, what a beautiful "religion of peace".)

The enlarged part in green represents indiscriminate hate speech and is not acceptable here.

Perknose
Forum Director