Discussion What would be the most Consumer Friendly Naming scheme for (AMD) CPUs?

[Gideon]

Spawning off the "Ryzen AI" debate, what do you guys think would be the most consumer friendly naming scheme for CPUs?

Rules and notes

Setting aside the corporate or OEM needs for a moment. Let's focus on the end user. The goal is to invent the most concise, readable naming scheme that would minimize the need to look up the specsheet of the CPU (by someone decently tech-savvy but not constantly keeping oneself up to date with every vendor) but still be a reasonable length and with a part that is easily pronouncable.

I'll focus on AMD for now, to keep the complexity down, but feel free to discuss other vendors as well.

What info is actually relevant to the end-user?

This is obviously highly debatable but those include:

• The most important one is the silicon generation (not just the CPU but also GPU, VCE , NPU gen)
  • manufacturing process (as a lot of things stem from that directly), but as these are mostly the same across a generation lineup except bargain-bin parts, this probably does not need a separate digit
• Cache size - usually denoted by the X3D part
• TDP - but as these are more and more configurable (mobile) it's hard to list on the box
• Single Core Boost clock of the fastest cores (indicating the maximum ST performance difference, at least in gen)
• Core count - this is usually the only thing the "tier" part e.g. "i9" or "R7" ends up denoting
• turbo speeds of "small" cores, all core turbo speeds - still relevant but IMO really hard to quantify concisely, therefore need to be adressed by the lesser digits
• GPU / NPU differences (usually indicated by lesser digits or added letters in case something is missing) can be adressed by "lower digits"

Idea A - simplify the current names, removing the fluff:

Desktop lineup
1. IMO the "tier" monicer is absolutely useless, it's already included in the model name, so let's get rid of that
2. The X usualy denotes the higher clocked higher TDP SKU, but there are exceptions (e.g 65W 9700X) so thats confusing

Current Scheme	Simplified V1
Ryzen 9 9950X3D*	Ryzen 9950X3D
Ryzen 9 9950X	Ryzen 9950X
Ryzen 7 9900X	Ryzen 9950X
Ryzen 7 9800X3D*	Ryzen 9950X
Ryzen 7 9700X	Ryzen 9700X
Ryzen 5 9600X	Ryzen 9600X
Ryzen 5 9600*	Ryzen 9600

Laptop lineup

"AI" is the epitome of fluff, the tier is fluff, HX is fluff (now that it's configurable TDB anyway).

Current Scheme	Barebones
Ryzen AI 9 HX 375 (only differrence is NPU)	Ryzen 375
Ryzen AI 9 HX 370	Ryzen 370
Ryzen AI 9 365	Ryzen 364

But this is far from being acceptable alone A lot of info is missing:

• The TDP, core counts (big or small) etc...
• How do i know these are mobile SKUs?
• How do i know 375 only has a slightly overclocked NPU?
• It would get even more confusing once we add X3D and dragon range mobile cpus (repurposed desktop), Strix Halo, etc.

So i try to return to the roots for inspiration in the follow up post ...

 

[Gideon]

The olden days:

I skimmed the old reviews at some point and remebered how readable the SKU names used to be.

It was usually just the brand and the generation (Pentium II, Pentium III) - gen usually being a roman literal + the clock speed in Mhz. Like Athlon 950. This didn't last long due to IPC differences between vendors, but the model name suffix always corresponded to the (single core) speed bigger == better.

Once the multicore era started the core-count was usually front and center in the product name (Phenom X4 940, Phenom X6 1090T).

I really like it (though i would prefer "6C" to the overused "X6").

The more i think of that i think the artificial tiers (i7 or R9) were a mistake. since they only correspond to core counts anyway (but obfuscate them a lot and are very arbitrary). This is not just for the consumers. This arbitrary dumbing down is directly responsible for embarrassing mistakes (as it's indeed arbitrary, confusing and useless)


This is a direct result of arbitrary and bad naming:

So how would it look to name the current lineups like that?

Desktop lineup:

Current	2000-ish style
Ryzen 9 9950X	Ryzen V 16C 5.7 GHz
Ryzen 7 9900X	Ryzen V 12C 5.6 GHz
Ryzen 7 9700X	Ryzen V 8C 5.5 GHz
Ryzen 5 9600X	Ryzen V 6C 5.4 GHz
Ryzen 5 9600*	Ryzen V 6C 5.2 GHz

V - denotes Zen 5, 16C is core count, the rest is obvious.

So far so good, but what about X3D and Strix Point base (mobile derived) chips?

I guess it would look like this:

(note: products with * are the most likely specs these will have, i have 0 insider knowledge this is pure speculation)

Current	2000-ish style V2
Ryzen 9 9950X3D*	Ryzen V 16C 5.7 GHz 96MB L3
Ryzen 9 9950X	Ryzen V 16C 5.7 GHz (32MB L3)
Ryzen 7 9900X	Ryzen V 12C 5.6 GHz (32MB L3)
Ryzen 7 9800X3D*	Ryzen V 8C 5.2 GHz 96MB L3
Ryzen 7 9700X	Ryzen V 8C 5.5 GHz (32MB L3)
Ryzen 5 9700G*	Ryzen V 8C 5.2 GHz 12CU (16MB L3)
Ryzen 5 9600X	Ryzen V 6C 5.7 GHz (32MB L3)
Ryzen 5 9600G*	Ryzen V 6C 5.1 GHz 8CU (16MB L3)

But this gets unreadable quickly even when omitting the part in parenthesis. This would soon need its own trimmed down model number just for normal conversation.

(also note the misleading GHz number for the 2 CCD X3D version)

Here is a slightly modified version.

Current	2008-ish insipred V1	2008-ish insipred V2	2008-ish insipred V2.1 (alternative)	V3
Ryzen 9 9950X3D*	Ryzen V 16C 5700 X3D	Ryzen V 16C 57X3D	Ryzen V 16C 57-X3D (can be a dash or space)	Ryzen V 16C 570 X3D
Ryzen 9 9950X	Ryzen V 16C 5700 X	Ryzen V 16C 57X	Ryzen V 16C 57-X	Ryzen V 16C 570 X
Ryzen 7 9900X	Ryzen V 12C 5600 X	Ryzen V 12C 56X	Ryzen V 12C 56-X	Ryzen V 12C 560 X
Ryzen 7 9800X3D*	Ryzen V 8C 5200 X3D	Ryzen V 8C 52X3D	Ryzen V 8C 52-X3D	Ryzen V 8C 520 X3D
Ryzen 7 9700X	Ryzen V 8C 5500	Ryzen V 8C 55	Ryzen V 8C 55	Ryzen V 8C 550
Ryzen 5 9700G*	Ryzen V 8C 5200G	Ryzen V 8C 52G	Ryzen V 8C 52-G16 (includes CU count)	Ryzen V 8C 520 G16
Ryzen 5 9600X	Ryzen V 6C 5400	Ryzen V 6C 54	Ryzen V 6C 54	Ryzen V 6C 540
Ryzen 5 9600G*	Ryzen V 6C 5100G	Ryzen V 6C 51G	Ryzen V 6C 51-G12	Ryzen V 6C 520 G12

The fact that model number equals max ST GHz becomes more cryptic (but it should still be rather obvious). This also allows us to keep the known suffixes people should already be accustomed to:

• F - GPUless,
• X - higher TDP (thus 9700X and 9600X lose the X)
• X3D - 3d cache suffixes people should already be accustomed to.

V2 - tries to also show additional info about CUs (if nonstandard)
V3 - displays the Mhz in 3- digits number to better deviate from the current naming scheme - not to confuse Ryzen V 16C 57X ("Ryzen five 16 core fifty-seven ex") with Ryzen R5 5700X ("Ryzen R5 fifty-seven ex") for instance. This simply becomes "Ryzen fifty seven hundred" (as no other part has the same clock speed)


Intermediate Conclusion

The V3 looks pretty decent alternative for Desktop already, though one can argue whether it makes sense to

• use "5" instead of Roman "V"
• use dashes more liberally than spaces thus "Ryzen V8C 520 X3D" becomes:
  • "Ryzen V 8C 520-X3D" (fifty-two-hundred ex-three-dee)
  • or even "Ryzen V 8C-520-X3D" but IMO that makes less sense

It might be superficially harder to read, but is just as easy to pronouce and would contain a lot more information. On top of that it would be much harder to fudge (as custom versions need new prefixes not number changes).

All nice and tandy, but what about Laptops, uneven cores and Ghz, NPU differences? These throw quite a wrench I'll discuss in a followup post ....

 

[Gideon]

So as mentioned, Laptops add a lot of complexity to the already quite long naming schemes, so let's try to improve on one made for desktop

Laptop lineup

Lets add "M" for moble chips and keep the rest from the desktop version ("innovating" on the NPU overclock):

Current Scheme	V2	V3
Ryzen AI 9 HX 375	Ryzen V 12C M510G AI (if you must)	Ryzen V 12C M510-G16+ (or an alternative to AI)
Ryzen AI 9 HX 370	Ryzen V 12C M510G	Ryzen V 12C M510-G16
Ryzen AI 9 365	Ryzen V 12C M500G	Ryzen V 10C M500-G12

But this is far from acceptable alone A lot of info is missing. What does 10 cores mean, how many Zen 5 vs Zen 5c? what are the clocks for the latter?

Here are some options:

Current Scheme	V2b	V3b
Ryzen AI 9 HX 375	Ryzen V 4+8C M510G AI (if you must)	Ryzen V 4+8C M510-G16+ (or an alternative to AI)
Ryzen AI 9 HX 370	Ryzen V 4+8C M510G	Ryzen V 4+8C M510-G16
Ryzen AI 9 365	Ryzen V 4+6C M500G	Ryzen V 4+6C M500-G12

Yeah, quite a mouthful.

Let's try something entirely different. Let's bring back the U, HX, HS suffixes, as these are unique from desktop so no "M" is required and just add together the core

1. big core count
2. small core count
3. max ST clock speed

thus:

Current	V4 15-25W	V4 45+ W
Ryzen AI 9 HX 375	Ryzen V 4851U+	Ryzen V 4851H+
Ryzen AI 9 HX 370	Ryzen V 4851U	Ryzen V 4851H
Ryzen AI 9 365	Ryzen V 4650U	Ryzen V 4650H

But by now we've lost the "at a glance" part + OEMs would still not be satisfied as there is no magic "year number" in the SKU name.

How would it look going back to the "caveman naming" of early 2000-ies?

Current	"List the Specs" edition	Bulldozer era mobile insipired
Ryzen AI 9 HX 375	Ryzen M5 4C 5.1 Ghz + 8C 3.3 Ghz + 16CU + 55 TOPS	Ryzen V X12 515
Ryzen AI 9 HX 370	Ryzen M5 4C 5.1 Ghz + 8C 3.3 Ghz + 16CU + 50 TOPS	Ryzen V X12 510
Ryzen AI 9 365	Ryzen M5 4C 5.0 Ghz + 6C 3.3 Ghz + 12CU + 50 TOPS	Ryzen V X10 500

Yeah .... Any other ideas?

 

[Gideon]

I guess this mind exercise really went nowhere.

Zen 5 naming is in stone anyway and starting from Zen 6 every consumer CPU will have a CPU, GPU and NPU (not having one will be an exception) So trying to list the stats of all "just like in the old day" is a shortcut to madness:

I will revisit this thread at some point, when i have fleshed out some better ideas for zen 6 generation ...

but feel free to contribute any ideas!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

You can't get rid of the Ryzen 9-7-5-3 designation, it's the most important part. Shoppers don't concern themselves with anything past the sticker on the laptop or case with those numbers. Because Intel has trained them that bigger number better for a long time now.

 

[Sunaiac]

I'd be fine with Ryzen 5 16 cores, Ryzen 5 12 cores, Ryzen 5 8 cores, Ryzen 5 X3D 8 cores, Ryzen 5 6 cores.
But that's clearly not as attractive as Ryzen V8 5733cm² Tuned Port Injection 245cv @ 3800 rpm or whatever.

 

[dr1337]

Because Intel has trained them that bigger number better for a long time now.

Intel basically stole it from BMW. Which got me thinking, maybe AMD needs to rip off Mercedes or other car brands.

Ryzen S, Ryzen C, Ryzen E, and for the APUs Ryzen G since they're versatile like an offroad vehicle . 9950x would be the S class BMG edition.

Or they could in fact ditch the whole model SKU concept entirely and give each market segment its own name, like a Lamborghini. Customers might really like that too, imagine telling your friends you just installed a brand new 2024 Ryzen Hurricane. Sounds way cooler than a bunch of random letters and numbers to me.

 

[gorobei]

market segment 3-5-7-9 is ok as a broad stroke, simple for non techie buyer as theoretically that and the price differences on a webpage configure options should clue them in as to what level they are buying.

the bigger problem is the trend with chiplets and packaging will make things way harder.

traditionally you can only do so many designs as the mask/wafer costs dont allow more than a few versions. so everything was down to speed bins and working core count determining the number of sku/models. with chiplets we are looking at cpu/igpu/io/fpga/soldered ram/etc in mix&match leading to a huge number of sku variations (potentially 10x).

at minimum you would want clear separations and not some 4 or 5 digit mouthful.
so r(3/5/7/9) cpu-gen# gpu-gen# powerLimit(either # or letter) core/thread-count(# and type) tensorUnit# vCache(letter)
r7 z6-g4-w65-8c/12e[16(24t)]-t12
[clunky but at least useful. though searchable, it could be seen as a math problem]
this will never happen but one can dream.

the big enemy is mobile oems wanting a new number each year so it seems like there is a big upgrade from the last sku on the exact same platform. hopefully Framework's modular laptops can eat away at this stupid mindset.

where it all falls apart is where the combinations of chiplets mean a bunch of radically different performance configurations are in the same price range because you have a expensive cpu/midrange igpu vs entry cpu/enthusiast igpu/mid tensor. the non-techie cant use market segment + price at that point.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Intel basically stole it from BMW. Which got me thinking, maybe AMD needs to rip off Mercedes or other car brands.

Ryzen S, Ryzen C, Ryzen E, and for the APUs Ryzen G since they're versatile like an offroad vehicle . 9950x would be the S class BMG edition.

Or they could in fact ditch the whole model SKU concept entirely and give each market segment its own name, like a Lamborghini. Customers might really like that too, imagine telling your friends you just installed a brand new 2024 Ryzen Hurricane. Sounds way cooler than a bunch of random letters and numbers to me.

I used to ride Honda CBR Hurricanes. That naming scheme appeals to me. They will have to stop following Intel and go their own way by having it be category 1-5. "Blow away the competition with the new Hurricane cat. 5 from AMD." Get back to that edgy 90s vibe with all the commensurate hyperbole. Just reading all of the numbers and letters others are posting is making me sleepy from boredom. Keep it simple, keep it "IN YOUR FACE! IT'S XTREME!"

 

[dullard]

I don't agree with the basic premise that the name needs to specify everything. Keeping with the vehicle concept, think of a 2024 Honda Civic. Plain and simple. The name doesn't need to include the engine type, horsepower, whether or not it has a moonroof, number of cylinders, whether it is regular/hybrid/sport/hatchback, etc. You then have the vehicle trim level and other description fields to determine the rest of the information.

 

[gdansk]

I would like a simple line up. I don't think you need 9/7/5/3.

Ryzen HX 375 would be high TDP configurations of the HX 370
Ryzen HX 370 standard 12 core + 16 CU
Ryzen HX 365 would be high TDP configurations of the HX 360. While this might be faster than the HX 370 in many workloads, I think having a lower model number is "OK" because it comes at a cost (power consumption) and is cut-down.
Ryzen HX 360 standard 10 core + 12 CU



Ryzen HX 355 for 4+4 Kraken high TDP
Ryzen HX 350 for 4+4 Kraken standard TDP
Ryzen HX 345 for 2+4? Kraken high TDP
Ryzen HX 340 for 2+4? Kraken standard TDP

 

[moinmoin]

You can't get rid of the Ryzen 9-7-5-3 designation, it's the most important part.

Then make it reflect the number of cores. And since nobody (?) wants to see a Ryzen 16/12/8/6/4 I'd suggest calculating it like:

core amount / 2 + 1

So you get:

• Ryzen 9 for 16 cores
• Ryzen 7 for 12 cores
• Ryzen 5 for 8 cores
• Ryzen 4 for 6 cores
• Ryzen 3 for 4 cores
• Ryzen 2 for 2 cores

 

[gorobei]

Then make it reflect the number of cores. And since nobody (?) wants to see a Ryzen 16/12/8/6/4 I'd suggest calculating it like:

core amount / 2 + 1

So you get:

• Ryzen 9 for 16 cores
• Ryzen 7 for 12 cores
• Ryzen 5 for 8 cores
• Ryzen 4 for 6 cores
• Ryzen 3 for 4 cores
• Ryzen 2 for 2 cores

eventually amd will push past the 8core complex template, so any naming scheme needs to have flexibility. locking in on some formula based on integers isnt going to last long. when a chiplet is 12, 16, or 20 cores the formula breaks
also with zen slimmed down c-cores you have a second class of cores. they may be indistinguishable to the os from the full fat cores but there will be differences to the usage/performance so the buyer needs to know.

 

[Nothingness]

I don't agree with the basic premise that the name needs to specify everything. Keeping with the vehicle concept, think of a 2024 Honda Civic. Plain and simple. The name doesn't need to include the engine type, horsepower, whether or not it has a moonroof, number of cylinders, whether it is regular/hybrid/sport/hatchback, etc. You then have the vehicle trim level and other description fields to determine the rest of the information.

If I said I used to have a 2017 Civic it doesn’t tell you it was not your typical Civic. It was a Type R FK8. That’s completely different on so many levels, I never said I had a Civic. And the same applies to my current car: I only say I have a Yaris to watch people face; I then mention it’s a GR, not a Yaris 😀
But yeah I agree, it’s more out of fun than really informative, though having details about the type of car I drive gives more information how I consider driving. And the same applies to CPU users.

 

[dullard]

If I said I used to have a 2017 Civic it doesn’t tell you it was not your typical Civic. It was a Type R FK8.

2017 Civic would say all that I would ever need to know about your car. It isn't a semi. It isn't a tricycle. It is a relatively small sedan. It can get a half dozen people (or less) from point A to point B. If I needed to haul a school room of kids or drywall, I wouldn't ask to borrow your car. The rest is meaningless to me. Only to car people does the rest matter. And in that case, you can mention the rest, Type R FK8.

Heck, I had to Google "Type R FK8" just to have any clue what you meant.

 

[Nothingness]

2017 Civic would say all that I would ever need to know about your car. It isn't a semi. It isn't a tricycle. It is a relatively small sedan. It can get a half dozen people (or less) from point A to point B. If I needed to haul a school room of kids or drywall, I wouldn't ask to borrow your car. The rest is meaningless to me. Only to car people does the rest matter. And in that case, you can mention the rest, Type R FK8.

Heck, I had to Google "Type R FK8" just to have any clue what you meant.

Well in that case you could just say I have a car or a gaming PC and be done with that. No need to mention brand. And the same applies to your computer: you have a gaming PC, all the rest (CPU/GPU brand, etc.) is meaningless to most people. But this forum, and this section in particular, is full of passionate people, not of randowm Joe, we need more than some generic name.

PS - while all 2017 Civic can have 4 passengers the Type R can only have 3.

 

[dullard]

But this forum, and this section in particular, is full of passionate people, not of randowm Joe, we need more than some generic name.

The thing is the discussion isn't about this forum or the people in this forum. It is about how a company should name products for the general public.

 

[gorobei]

while enthusiasts may want bragging rights by spouting off a 4 digit number and umpteen GHz, the point of a naming scheme is for buyers to know what they are getting or finding a patch years later to update that cpu.
the scheme has to be easily distinguishable from everything else the manufacturer has out.

 

[Gideon]

2017 Civic would say all that I would ever need to know about your car.

Well that is actually one option, to diversify the branding. Currently AMD only has "Ryzen" but Honda has way more models than "Civic".

If I said I used to have a 2017 Civic it doesn’t tell you it was not your typical Civic. It was a Type R FK8. That’s completely different on so many levels, I never said I had a Civic. And the same applies to my current car: I only say I have a Yaris to watch people face; I then mention it’s a GR, not a Yaris 😀

OT:

This brings me back. My first car was Civic Type R FN2. I actually tried out the FK8 (even on a track day) ut ended up with "a Ford Focus" (RS mk3 2017).

Eventually i "sold out" though, as I got more kids and moved to a place where a car is no longer a luxury but i actually need to commute (and the track is 3h drive away), thus bough a family car