What would happen if we completely stopped deficit spending by the federal government?

[BigDH01]

Originally posted by: inspire

Originally posted by: BigDH01
The laws of supply and demand have no conscience, but we do. It would be corrected by the sudden loss of millions of jobs. You ought not be so sure you aren't one of the jobless. And if that doesn't bother you, then think of a world where the jobless have no access to safety nets, healthcare, job assistance, education, etc, all in the name of economic efficiency.

The definciency arises from the fact that we don't have enough "middle-class jobs" to satisfy our population unless we have massive deficit spending. Your road is one to aristocracy and ruthless abandonment. I see there's another thread now about Pat Buchanan and his article about the size of government and how our ancestors would've felt about it. I've read a great deal of work by Jefferson, Adams, etc and you'd be surprised about how they felt about equality, especially as it pertains to freedom and democracy. While these men might be surprised by the size of our government, I think they'd be more surprised by how we so willingly discard our fellow citizen in the name of economic efficiency and the almighty dollar.

Before going further, I'd like to say that I have actually read through your points and considered them. They're definitely something to think about.

With regards to my comment and your response to the concept that supply and demand has no conscience, I'm not so sure that people, collectively, particularly government, has a conscience, either. The 'safety nets' they put in place are largely an effort to consolidate power and wealth.

I tend to think of my road as a type of frontierism. There are jobs to be done in this country, but unfortunately, for countless circumstantial reasons, many people can't get to them. I feel that while we should be nudging people towards these opportunities, the current policies only encourage people to hold their breath and ride it out.

Jefferson and Adams get little respect from me in the context of this discussion. The economics of Colonial America were based on slavery. When the northern part of the country successfully industrialised, they afforded themselves a moral conscience and the resulting imposition of it on the rest of the country lead to deadliest war in American history.

That all being said, I understand your points, and I agree with them, largely. I just don't see this cycle as remotely sustainable. I wish I had a better idea, but it's not a simple problem.

I have little to say that's germaine to the actual topic of this thread except that I also do not know the "correct" way. I can tell you that what we've done for the last 30 years is not taking society to a place where we want it to be, or at least I want it to be. Disregarding the rampant corruption and political thievery, I don't think Americans give enough thought as to how their actions affect their fellow citizens and society as a whole. I can't fathom that the type of country we want to inhabit is one where money and individual wealth is the sole object of our desire.

This requires more than a change in government or economics, it requires a change about how the citizenry feels about themselves and their fellow citizens. What's the point of having a republic or democracy at all if we are willing to sacrifice any sense of compassion and charity at the alter of efficiency?

I don't blame the government for the current deficits we have. To me, it just seems foolish now to point a finger at the government and say "it's not sustainable," when we should be pointing fingers at ourselves and saying, "our attitude isn't sustainable." The government is acting no different than the average American. The politicians are going around passing whatever law benefits their corporate interests that day and the average American is running around trying to collect a buck with little regard to their companions. I'm tired of the "me" generation.

 

[piasabird]

No Snow Removal. Roads would start to crumble. Bridges would start to collapse. 2 year wait for passports. No more Helicopters for emergency services. Fewer firemen, closure of Fire stations. Fewer police with longer response times. Have to start releasing prisoners early. We might run out of money for Social Security, and Medicaid. No more free lunches. Military may shrink or we run out of money for Air Defense and Navy vessels mothballed. Orders for Jet Fighters would have to be cancelled.

Who knows what would really happen.

Maybe the UN would take over or O'Bamma would declare an emergency and declare martial law and start reeducation camps.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: piasabird
Maybe the UN would take over or O'Bamma would declare an emergency and declare martial law and start reeducation camps.

Or you'd fart perfume and fly out an open window:roll:

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: piasabird
No Snow Removal. Roads would start to crumble. Bridges would start to collapse. 2 year wait for passports. No more Helicopters for emergency services. Fewer firemen, closure of Fire stations. Fewer police with longer response times. Have to start releasing prisoners early. We might run out of money for Social Security, and Medicaid. No more free lunches. Military may shrink or we run out of money for Air Defense and Navy vessels mothballed. Orders for Jet Fighters would have to be cancelled.

Who knows what would really happen.

Maybe the UN would take over or O'Bamma would declare an emergency and declare martial law and start reeducation camps.

Snow removal is done at the local level, and there are enough people with trucks who enjoy plowing that communities could take up any slack with a loss of federal dollars. Salt application would be hindered, I imagine.

Roads and bridges are ALREADY crumbling, which means that the money is being wasted somewhere (mostly on the state level). Insist on productive work crews, and you might see cost savings to balance out any reduction in federal subsidies. The Egyptians built the pyramids in a shorter time than it takes for major roadwork to be completed these days.

Fire the dead wood in the passport application places and insist on productivity. With a loss of free money, many of these offices would be forced into accountability. That would have to be part of the process.

Emergency services, in general. Back to efficiency and economy. Cut the unfunded mandates from the federal gov't (post-9/11 "first responder" gear that's provided without maintenance funds), and you could keep some of the capacity. I would think these services would have an easy time getting bond items passed on a local level to maintain effective budgets.

Military procurement needs to be fixed, assuredly; however, this is one of the fundamental purposes of the federal government because it simply cannot be done anywhere else. Perhaps we could stop being Europe's protector and let them fund their own military forces.

Interesting read so far.

 

[sandorski]

I think adding Rigidity to the system is a bad idea. Certainly Deficit Spending is a problem needing addressed(especially during Economic Growth periods), but creating a Law to enforce it can result in unintended consequences. California seems to be an example of the kinds of problems that occur. It's not directly the same, but rigidity there prevents the Government from addressing the Issues that the Propositions system imposes on them. Perhaps if the 2/3 rigidity for raising Taxes didn't exist and Politicians were allowed to Fund Prop mandates properly, the Californian Public would be less eager to keep approving/disproving(depending on circumstance) Propositions? for eg

Some procedural changes probably would go a long way to helping the situation. Such as limiting Amendments to Bills, especially those unrelated to the Bills such as Pork. Create one Bill a year whose only purpose is "Pork" or Spending focused on individual Jurisdictions.

 

[QuantumPion]

I think a good first step anyway would be a requirement that congress read the fucking spending bills before voting for them.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
I think a good first step anyway would be a requirement that congress read the fucking spending bills before voting for them.

Very good idea.
But the problem is things like Obama just did about an hour ago in his tv speech.
They make it seem like they have to do it now, there is no time to wait. You can't read it, there is no time to find other solutions. It is urgent, etc.

 

[TheSkinsFan]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Originally posted by: QuantumPion
I think a good first step anyway would be a requirement that congress read the fucking spending bills before voting for them.

Very good idea.
But the problem is things like Obama just did about an hour ago in his tv speech.
They make it seem like they have to do it now, there is no time to wait. You can't read it, there is no time to find other solutions. It is urgent, etc.

it's sickening. :|