What would happen in a society where human labor is replaced by machines?

[nexus5rocks]

Machines are much more productive than humans. They don't require wages or benefits and are less prone to error. They never take time off or go on strike if unhappy with working conditions.
They could foreseeably replace a large majority of the workforce- manufacturing, construction, food services, farming, transportation (in the form of autonomous vehicles), etc. in the very near future.
Some fields probably would never be fully replaced, such as health care, hospitality, or entertainment where human interaction is required.

When most humans provide zero economic value, what is our value in a capitalistic society? How will we provide for ourselves financially?
Would those that own the machines control most of the wealth? Would we veer towards a socialist society?

 

[lxskllr]

Machines are much more productive than humans. They don't require wages or benefits and are less prone to error. They never take time off or go on strike if unhappy with working conditions.

They're "paid" when purchased, and "take off" with little notice; usually when you need them most.

When most humans provide zero economic value, what is our value in a capitalistic society? How will we provide for ourselves financially?
Would those that own the machines control most of the wealth? Would we veer towards a socialist society?

Society is already a ponzi scheme. All ponzi schemes crash, and it'll happen with or without automation.

 

[88keys]

Machines are much more productive than humans. They don't require wages or benefits and are less prone to error. They never take time off or go on strike if unhappy with working conditions.
They could foreseeably replace a large majority of the workforce- manufacturing, construction, food services, farming, transportation (in the form of autonomous vehicles), etc. in the very near future.
Some fields probably would never be fully replaced, such as health care, hospitality, or entertainment where human interaction is required.

When most humans provide zero economic value, what is our value in a capitalistic society? How will we provide for ourselves financially?
Would those that own the machines control most of the wealth? Would we veer towards a socialist society?

Socialism.... in some form or another.

 

[TheELF]

I'm pretty sure that this was the scenario for futurama.

 

[Muse]

Read an article in yesterday's Sunday S.F. Chronicle about John Maynard Keynes prediction (in 1928?) that by 2028 mankind would be labor free, we'd all be enjoying the good life with practically no work (well, 3 hours/day). The article's author notes off the bat that things are actually going on the opposite direction lately as people are working more and more. The leisure class is indeed in clover but they are a smaller and smaller proportion of the populace. Author discusses strategies than can/might be employed to make things more equitable/workable going forward:

Labor Day predictions for 2028 by Robert Reich

NY Times treatment (No Time... How did we get so busy?), where you get to read the whole thing, probably better treatment anyway by Elizabeth Kolbert

 

[glenn1]

Machines are much more productive than humans. They don't require wages or benefits and are less prone to error. They never take time off or go on strike if unhappy with working conditions.
They could foreseeably replace a large majority of the workforce- manufacturing, construction, food services, farming, transportation (in the form of autonomous vehicles), etc. in the very near future.
Some fields probably would never be fully replaced, such as health care, hospitality, or entertainment where human interaction is required.

When most humans provide zero economic value, what is our value in a capitalistic society? How will we provide for ourselves financially?
Would those that own the machines control most of the wealth? Would we veer towards a socialist society?

A lot of people are already economically non-viable even at current levels of automation and globalization. Unfortunately even we get to a post-scarcity world where all our basic needs are taken care of, that still doesn't include a sense of purpose for people. And hopefully we don't get to the point where this happens: http://www.mostlyodd.com/death-by-utopia/

 

[Mai72]

Aren't we seeing this now? Wait for another 5 years when cars and trucks are automated. What does all of this mean for the average American? It means less jobs, and less wealth. The tech industry is moving at a very fast clip and their goal is to automate everything as much as possible. Look at Google, Apple, Facebook and Amazon for example. They are at the forefront for automation.

Look at it now. You can do almost anything now, without leaving your house. Buying items, banking, info, are all at our fingerprints. I got into an argument with a guy in his 60s. He asked me if I wanted a newspaper. I looked at him and said "Why? When I can pull the news up on my smartphone." He got mad and told me that I'm going to bankrupt the newspaper. To him, technology is big, bad, and scary. Maybe he does have a point. In the future, the mailman is going to be extinct. Just like going shopping and banking. I'm not going to need their service as much anymore, and I have a feeling most people under 50 feel the same way. The downside is going to be less jobs.

 

[Ns1]

I, for one, welcome our new robotic overlords.

 

[Jodell88]

Wall-E summed it up pretty well I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1BQPV-iCkU

 

[Sonikku]

Machines are much more productive than humans. They don't require wages or benefits and are less prone to error. They never take time off or go on strike if unhappy with working conditions.
They could foreseeably replace a large majority of the workforce- manufacturing, construction, food services, farming, transportation (in the form of autonomous vehicles), etc. in the very near future.
Some fields probably would never be fully replaced, such as health care, hospitality, or entertainment where human interaction is required.

When most humans provide zero economic value, what is our value in a capitalistic society? How will we provide for ourselves financially?
Would those that own the machines control most of the wealth? Would we veer towards a socialist society?

Captain Harlock called it.

 

[Murloc]

Some fields probably would never be fully replaced

exactly, some other way to earn money always opens up.

Eventually though, maybe many people will be living on welfare. Not necessarily unhappy, although still less rich than other people.

 

[TheELF]

I'm not going to need their service as much anymore, and I have a feeling most people under 50 feel the same way. The downside is going to be less jobs.

Yup we'll have to be creating skins/content and sell them in mmos to stay alive.

But we already know that we all will be ending up as batteries for the matrix in the long run.
(But the first one, the utopian one where everybody can be a superhero,or whatever he/she/it want's to be )

 

[her209]

People still need jobs to earn money to buy the products that the robots are making.

 

[Imp]

Let the robots take care of the absolute essentials...

More than 50% of the population can probably be satisfied with beer + wine + TV + movies + music + porn. Tell them they'll never go hungry or go cold/too hot and there probably won't be trouble.

 

[Bock]

Wealth inequality of epic proportions or tax rates that make humans cheaper to hire. Since the wealthy have already bought & paid for the govt, mass scale revolt.

 

[Murloc]

mass scale revolt.

you can't really revolt against progress. The luddites did that. It's useless.

You can just tax the rich more and redistribute the wealth so that everyone has a minimum standard of living, which should be pretty good compared to now assuming there are all these machines around producing the same stuff but for much cheaper. Maybe they'll even be able to go on holiday. Hell, in my country there was a nut leftist politician who proposed that.

 

[ninaholic37]

I got into an argument with a guy in his 60s. He asked me if I wanted a newspaper. I looked at him and said "Why? When I can pull the news up on my smartphone." He got mad and told me that I'm going to bankrupt the newspaper. To him, technology is big, bad, and scary. Maybe he does have a point.

I like the idea of a newspaper, except that I don't care about the news (except maybe science and technology) and hate how it makes your fingers and everything you touch black and inky. They really need to solve this black ink that gets all over everything problem that has plagued newspapers for 400 (?) years.

 

[lxskllr]

I like the idea of a newspaper, except that I don't care about the news (except maybe science and technology) and hate how it makes your fingers and everything you touch black and inky. They really need to solve this black ink that gets all over everything problem that has plagued newspapers for 400 (?) years.

Broadsheets suck also. I like the tabloid style, but I don't know many serious papers that use that format. In any case, I don't have time for papers. Eats into my neffing time :^P

 

[TwiceOver]

I've always wondered what it will be like when robots do everything. They build new robots, farm, maintain property, build everything. What will we all do and what will be the point or money if there is even a need for such a thing and how would you earn money when there is no work to be done?

Friends of mine don't believe there will ever be a day without having to work. I disagree.

 

[Imdmn04]

A new class of jobs are created because of the machines. Somebody's gotta program and service the machines.

However, many Americans are lazy and don't want to pursue math, science or skilled blue collar labor because it's too "hard". They just want to stand around the assembly line and complain why they can't feed their family in the 21st century doing unskilled repetitive work.

Free market cuts both ways, if your skills can't compete or isn't needed in the labor market as society advances technologically, then you get weeded out. The capitalist system isn't there for your convinience.

 

[nexus5rocks]

They're "paid" when purchased, and "take off" with little notice; usually when you need them most.

Do you really think it's debatable that robots will cost less in the long run, and are more productive, efficient and less error prone?

 

[Jeff7]

Aren't we seeing this now? Wait for another 5 years when cars and trucks are automated. What does all of this mean for the average American? It means less jobs, and less wealth. The tech industry is moving at a very fast clip and their goal is to automate everything as much as possible. Look at Google, Apple, Facebook and Amazon for example. They are at the forefront for automation.

Look at it now. You can do almost anything now, without leaving your house. Buying items, banking, info, are all at our fingerprints. I got into an argument with a guy in his 60s. He asked me if I wanted a newspaper. I looked at him and said "Why? When I can pull the news up on my smartphone." He got mad and told me that I'm going to bankrupt the newspaper. To him, technology is big, bad, and scary. Maybe he does have a point. In the future, the mailman is going to be extinct. Just like going shopping and banking. I'm not going to need their service as much anymore, and I have a feeling most people under 50 feel the same way. The downside is going to be less jobs.

At one time, the printing press was big, bad, and scary new technology that eliminated the need for certain jobs.

 

[lxskllr]

Do you really think it's debatable that robots will cost less in the long run, and are more productive, efficient and less error prone?

I work with a robot every day. I get less done, with less accuracy. It's probably cheaper, but that'll only last while work is slow enough. Contracts that can't be fulfilled are expensive...

 

[Red Squirrel]

I've been pondering on this myself, as pretty much every job can be automated. The ones that can't, can be outsourced. It is possible for a corporation to pretty much operate without any employees and eventually it's how it will work. There will be a small board of maybe 10 execs making 100k+ and that's it. Maybe one or two outsourced technicians from out of town that come in once in a while to service the machines/programming/computers etc. Because corporations will have so much money they'll be able to take drastic measures to destroy any competition so trying to live off running a small business will be next to impossible. There will only be 1 corporation per type of service/product, like capitalism is intended to do. But sooner or later that will crash because nobody will be able to afford to live any more and have to stop paying their bills. It will get to a point where no one is paying their taxes, utilities, etc. Most people will probably end up in jail and the only people who are going to be free are the rich.

Things are going to get ugly in the future I think. I'm not really sure what the answer even is to prevent things from getting worse. Automating stuff is not exactly evil or something that should be stopped, just the nature of business but it will have very bad effects as it gets more prevalent. There needs to be a huge shift in how society operates I think.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I've been pondering on this myself, as pretty much every job can be automated. The ones that can't, can be outsourced. It is possible for a corporation to pretty much operate without any employees and eventually it's how it will work. There will be a small board of maybe 10 execs making 100k+ and that's it. Maybe one or two outsourced technicians from out of town that come in once in a while to service the machines/programming/computers etc. Because corporations will have so much money they'll be able to take drastic measures to destroy any competition so trying to live off running a small business will be next to impossible. There will only be 1 corporation per type of service/product, like capitalism is intended to do. But sooner or later that will crash because nobody will be able to afford to live any more and have to stop paying their bills. It will get to a point where no one is paying their taxes, utilities, etc. Most people will probably end up in jail and the only people who are going to be free are the rich.

Things are going to get ugly in the future I think. I'm not really sure what the answer even is to prevent things from getting worse. Automating stuff is not exactly evil or something that should be stopped, just the nature of business but it will have very bad effects as it gets more prevalent. There needs to be a huge shift in how society operates I think.

It will never happen in corporations any more than the 'paperless office' has happened because of one factor. If you eliminate everyone but the board of execs, you will have forced accountability. Something that no corporation on the face of the globe could withstand.