What would you do? Dell 2001FP vs Samsung 213T!

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tboo

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2000
7,627
1
81
Hey, 213t owners-what do you have the brightness & contrast set to? Also, why cant I adjust contrast? Is it because im in digital mode?
 

mrgoblin

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2003
1,075
0
0
Originally posted by: Betelgeuse
The Dell, hands down.

I owned the 213T for about a week. It is an awesome display if you don't play games, any games. HORRIBLE ghosting with any game that involves motion (that means most of them), even in slower games it was bad. Jedi Kniight 2 for example was unplayable. There were trails behind moving objects that were 1/2" in length, horrible. Made me dizzy. I returned the display quickly and have no regrets. Other little nit-pickings include slight colour shift at greater viewing angles, and a backlight that was not very uniform.

I myself just ordered the Dell 2001FP, hopefully I'll get it soon...

:beer:
 

Dewey

Senior member
Mar 17, 2001
453
0
71
tboo,
Mines all stock so brightness is 80 and contrast is 50. You cannot change the contrast in DVI from the OSD. I have tried adjusting it much, maybe you can adjust your contrast in you video driver, etc.?
 

AlienNY

Junior Member
Jan 9, 2004
3
0
0
did any one tried to play games on any of the monitors on lower resolutions (1280x1024, 1024x768, etc...)
Please tell what You experience.
Thanks in advance.
 

tboo

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2000
7,627
1
81
Originally posted by: AlienNY
did any one tried to play games on any of the monitors on lower resolutions (1280x1024, 1024x768, etc...)
Please tell what You experience.
Thanks in advance.


I find playing at 800X600 on my 213t with AA enabled looks great. Thats because 800X600 is exactly half of the 1600X1200 natural rez. Any other rez looks soft to me.
 

tboo

Diamond Member
Jun 25, 2000
7,627
1
81
I am currently playing BF1942, UT2k3, Devestation & Never Winter Nights. When I say soft I mean its not a sharp picture like you would see using the LCD's natural rez.
 

Zinn2b

Banned
Jan 9, 2004
361
0
0
YOU stated that this was going to be your entertainment center my advice is buy the biggest CRT monitor you can get and enjoy your games and moves with no ghosting
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
12
76
Originally posted by: tboo

I find playing at 800X600 on my 213t with AA enabled looks great. Thats because 800X600 is exactly half of the 1600X1200 natural rez. Any other rez looks soft to me.

Funny how an idea, even an incorrect idea, can so alter people's perceptions... Interpolation creates pixels by simulating one low res pixel w/ more high res pixels... In order to create a perfect, non-native picture, you'd need square pixels, that's 2x2, or 4 pixels. So 1/4 of 1600x1200 = 400x300.
 

Jumpem

Lifer
Sep 21, 2000
10,757
3
81
Originally posted by: Nebor
Originally posted by: tboo

I find playing at 800X600 on my 213t with AA enabled looks great. Thats because 800X600 is exactly half of the 1600X1200 natural rez. Any other rez looks soft to me.

Funny how an idea, even an incorrect idea, can so alter people's perceptions... Interpolation creates pixels by simulating one low res pixel w/ more high res pixels... In order to create a perfect, non-native picture, you'd need square pixels, that's 2x2, or 4 pixels. So 1/4 of 1600x1200 = 400x300.


Your math is off. One quarter of 1600 x 1200 IS 800 x600.
 

mchammer187

Diamond Member
Nov 26, 2000
9,116
0
76
I got a dell 2001FP to replace my 2000FP but I ended up selling it on ebay

I think overall i actuallly prefer the 2000FP

because of the screen door effect of the 2001FP and the color of the 2000FP seemed more rich to me (but that could be because i was used to the 2000FP)


IMO the 2001 although it is a 16 ms monitor did not do anybetter with respect to ghosting though I only tried CS and Warcraft 3 on both

get the 2001 FP if you want

thin bezel
rotate
better scaling of resolutions (i did not try this)
16 ms response (did not seem to be any better than the 2000FP in the games i tried)
 

TheJackal

Member
Nov 27, 2000
193
0
0
I just got the 2001FP 2 days ago and am having SEVERE ghosting in BF1942 and Unreal 2. To the point where they are unplayable because i get a headache within 2 min of playing. I am using the DVI connector and have a P4 3Ghz, 1Gb RAM and 9800 Pro, so hardware shouldn't be the issue.

I was under the impression from reviews that there was little to no ghosting on the 2001FP and will definitely return it if i can't resolve this problem and get a CRT. Anyone got some ideas?
 

Bagheera

Senior member
Jul 6, 2000
310
0
0
Hey guys. I've had a Samsung 213T for about 2 months (which, regretably, has one bad pixel near center-right of the screen), which I am selling on Ebay right now after ordering a Dell 2001FP.

The 2001FP has been here for about 3 days only (and after intensive testing I've noticed no dead pixels - very good! But I have a feeling I don't want to keep this monitor - read on to find out why!), but I've already done a number of gaming tests, video tests, and just 2D comparison. Let me give you my thoughts, and I hope it'll help.

Ghosting:
The Samsung 213T had VERY severe ghosting (or technically speaking, streaking; since ghosting actually refers to bad signals in the cable, and I was using DVI). No, it is actually NOT THAT BAD in most FPS games; really, during intense game play, you don't have time to check if there are trails on objects; and most of the time the trails aren't that noticeable (except for a few colors - I find black to orange, black to dark blue, and black to gray are very noticeable). There are special instances when the streaking is bad enough for me to turn my head, though. One of such is an ATI Demo I use fortesting LCD streaking: the ATO Dolphine Demo for Radeon 8500. The reason I pick this is because the dolphins' eyes are black, and on most LCDs (I've tested this demo on a Dell 1901FP, a 1800FP, and an Apple 23" Cinema display - surprisingly, the Cinema Display does NOT ghost!!!) they leave VERY long trails (about 1/2" on the 213T) on the dolphins' bodies, which are dark blue. Trails are also noticeable in fast-paced motion videos - most of the time you can't tell (since a lot of movies already have natural trails resulted from the camera), but in animations and such (like the intro of Wolf's Rain, where trails are evident when birds fly past the sky at high speed) it is noticeable.

The 2001FP has almost zero ghosting. There are, of course, slight motion blurring, but they are not noticeable in any sense. Even the AT Dolphin Demo ran smoothly - you can actually see that the eyes are traingular polygons, not trailing black dots. HOWEVER, there is a very major flaw in 2001FP's image quality in fast-paced video/games that defeats the whole purpose of the 2001FP's fast response time (and, I've noticed, that EVERY SINGLE review article of the 2001FP fails to address this problem, which seems to be an inherent problem in the design): there is a very strange, interlace pattern throughout the entire display when fast-motion video or game is being displayed. If you are just relaxed and not being very focused while you play, the interlace pattern is not very evident; but upon close inspection, it gets very annoying. The ATI Dolphin Demo, Final Fantasy XI, Lord of the Rings, The Matrix Reloaded all show this symptom (and this interlace-pattern is not something I've seen in any other LCD I've experienced so far - possible problem with the IPS display mode, may be? Or could it be a problem with the design of the Genesis Malibu chipset? I do not know). The interlace patterns do not appear when the video is still; so while you are taking screenshots and such, the picture looks fine. There is, however, one instance at which you can capture a glimpse of the interlace during still-video though: stare at a non-moving image (the desktop, for example), an move your vision rapidly from top to bottom of the display, and you'll see the strange interlace pattern on the display. It's gone as soon as your vision becomes still. I am almost ready to suspect that the 2001FP is using some sort of 2-field interlaced display mode (similar to that of the TV) to achieve its fast response time.

In short, the 213T actually has an edge on overall image quality, even in fast-paced motion videos. True, the 2001FP has no ghosting, but I think the interlace pattern just defeats the whole purpose of no ghosting - I consider it almost a more severe problem than ghosting.

Image Quality:
The image quality comparison can be summed up in one sentence: 213T stumps all over the 2001FP.

I read that someone in this thread mentioned 2001FP has te "graininess" in image quality. It is all too true. Even upon my first look at 2001FP's image, I immediately noticed two things: the colors are too warm (though corrected with the OSD), and the image is grainy. As opposed to the 213T, on which a block of gray looks like an uniform block of color, on the 2001FP, there are strange white lines across the color fields. It seems like the bottom of each pixel is brighter than its top - it sounds funny, but upon closer inspection this is what it seems like. The result is blurry lines - on borders between bright and dark colors, it is not evident. But on borders of adjacent, close color ranges, the lines are very blurry.

All in all, I am not satisfied with the 2001FP's image quality at all. The graininess bothers me, and, even if that is acceptable, the interlace pattern in fast-motion videos ust won't cut it either.

Frankly, I think PC users are stuk with no GOOD large LCD displays. The 213T is already crowned the best 21" LCD for the PC, but it ghosts. The 2001FP supposedly is the savior of PC's large LCDs with its no-ghost image quality, but then its image quality turns out to be mediocre at best.

I now have two choices: to buy another 213T, and hope the one I get this time won't have dead pixels, knowing that 213T will ghost severely, OR; try and find an Apple 23" Cinema Display for cheap. Price aside, I have reasons to hesitate from buying a 23" Apple - Apple has a very bad policy on dead pixels, some users are said to be stuck with 10 dead pixels and Apple won't even exchange that! But Apple's 23" is large and beautiful, has very brilliant, neutral colors, and from what I've tested, it doesn't ghost (surprise, surprise!).
 

Getfunk01

Junior Member
Feb 1, 2004
7
0
0
I really cant see how you guys can play FPS's with this LCD. After about 10 mins of UT2003, I get so pissed that i cant even see whats going on. Its not really ghosting, its more like i see multiples of everything when i move fast. I have not touched that game since. RTVW:ET is barely more playable. Though i do play ET hours without end with this LCD, i find my self complainging the whole time about the wierd stuff it does. Its like they turned down the Flow of data to the LCD via DVD-D connecter. The D-SUB with this is WORTHLESS. In analog mode, its a pain just hangin in windows. I feel once people get over the AWE of a 20" LCD in there room they will see this LCD is not as good as we think. I have no idea where Dell got the 16ms from as my old (which i really want back) Nec 1760v OWNED this Lcd in everyway. Do your selfs a favor and dont get this LCD just cause everyone thinks its good. The same people also think the Samsung 191t is good for gamein which it is not. I cant believe I agree with Toms review over anadatech.

Funk
 

Getfunk01

Junior Member
Feb 1, 2004
7
0
0
n short, the 213T actually has an edge on overall image quality, even in fast-paced motion videos. True, the 2001FP has no ghosting, but I think the interlace pattern just defeats the whole purpose of no ghosting - I consider it almost a more severe problem than ghosting.

This might be what im talking about.. This is horrrible IMHO, and much rather have a little trailing. I cant really describe it but it drives me nuts. Hence this LCD is going back to Dell in favor of a NEV 1760NX-BX-1 or a VP171b. Maybe next time.

 

Bagheera

Senior member
Jul 6, 2000
310
0
0
Most large LCDs, even though their response time is pledged to be he same as some of the smaller ones (25ms, which is common, for example), ghosting seem to be much more noticeable on large LCDs.

I've noticed that while ghosting is not severe on LCDs below 18" (tested from the ATI Dolpin demo), anything 19" and above have severe ghosting (the Samsung 191T, AKA the Dell 1901FP, and the Samsung 213T, all have comparable ghosting).

Dell 2001FP actually don't show sign of that ghosting so to their credit, the response time is indeed lowered. There's something fishy about the interlace pattern, however, and I hope professional review sites will start picking up on that soon; because somehow I suspect it to be related to the fast response time it's able to achieve.
 

Bagheera

Senior member
Jul 6, 2000
310
0
0
Oh, and kids, after much consideration, I think the best solution is to buy an Apple Cinema display. For anyone who want the absolute best LCD out there, no ghosting, no grainy pictures, etc.

And absolutely, horridly, HUMONGOUS.
 
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