What Would You Do? Woman Kills Home Invader

[Zebo]

Some serious misconceptions in this thread

First of all Oklahoma has a Castle law, look it up if you don't know what that means.

1. She had the right to Kill him as soon as force-able entry was tried, no need for him to be inside as she waited for.
2. Gun safty 101. Never point gun at something unless you mean to kill it. No maiming as attacker can get to you. Especially if hyped on drugs such as PCP or speed.
3. She has immunity from lawsuits, if justified, as all Castle law states have.

Don't want to get Killed. Don't break into houses. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

 

[SunSamurai]

Nice to have a positive news story for a change. Thanks.

This isnt positive news. This is disheartening news. This woman now has to live with knowing what it feels like to kill someone, irrelevant of why.

Positive news.. what are you smoking, because I want some. :sneaky:

 

[zeruty]

Had this been me i would of have yelled at his drunk ass that he has the wrong house and tell him the cops are on the way and i have a shotgun. I would of done all this hoping he would leave. Then had he proceded to break in the window and come in i would have shot him. Im all for defending your property but i would have defended mine differently in this case. Neither is right or wrong but the printed story vs. the audio story are 2 totally seperate stories of what happened.

As AreaCode707 and others stated, you have to think of this from the perspective of an old lady. If she didn't fire as soon as the man entered the home, she would have put herself in danger. If the intruder was able to get close to her, he could have knocked the gun away. If he had a gun, he would have had the chance to shoot her first. She didn't know what was going to happen. You as a man would have a much better chance of surviving while giving more of a warning. Personally I probably would have aimed through the glass and told him to take the fuck off unless he wanted to die.

lets say you crashed outside of her house. you needed to get inside to call 911 or else a family member of yours would die. there are no other houses. you knock on the door, try to look inside, yell for help etc. You last resort is to break in. You yell out the situation before doing so but there is no response. You break in and someone shoots you. Thats not fucked up? I know that is a different scenario than what happened here, but in theory its the same

No, it's not fucked up. You never have the right to break into someone's house. If you choose to anyway, you are breaking the law and have to take on the risk that you may not survive the crime you are committing.

With that said, if the guy had yelled "Please help! Call 911! Call 911! My sister needs an ambulance!" they lady probably would have been more likely to yell back, and say "OK, I'm calling 911. Wait out there, don't try to enter"

 

[zeruty]

From M0RPH's link:

http://newsok.com/homeowner-shoots-kills-intruder-in-lincoln-county/article/3422809#ixzz0Z8qQa9i0

A ‘bizarre’ situation
Lincoln County Sheriff Chuck Mangion said dispatchers first got the call from Jackson about 12:40 a.m., after her dogs’ barking woke her up.

The man shot and killed at Jackson’s home, Billy Dean Riley, 53, was no stranger to the sheriff’s office.

"I’d say he’s been in an out of jail since he was old enough to go to jail,” Mangion said. "He has a long history of drug and alcohol-related offenses.”

But what has the sheriff puzzled is why the intruder was so determined to break into Jackson’s rather fortified home, marked by a locked gate and "Beware of the dog” signs.

"As to what his motives were in trying to break into the house remains unclear,” Mangion said.

Jackson said the man was talking "crazy.” He apparently didn’t know where his pickup was, and he kept yelling for someone named "Pat.”

Mangion said his deputies found Riley’s pickup just down the secluded rural road, and it appeared the vehicle had left the roadway and run into a ditch.

Inside the pickup, investigators found Riley’s sister, Patricia Ellen Totty, 45, unconscious from what they called an overdose of alcohol and narcotics. She was taken to a Stroud hospital, where she was later listed in good condition.

Mangion said he couldn’t say whether Riley had gone to the house to get help for his sister.

"He didn’t go to the front door or ring the door bell to try to gain entry,” the sheriff said.

Mangion said Riley is a repeat offender, but local officers have never seen him do anything like this before.

"Dealing with him, I can tell you that when he had a load on, he could be a pretty mean individual,” the sheriff said. "But this is just bizarre. I’ve been doing this for 35 years, and this one is pretty much a mind-blower.”

Court records show Riley, of Sparks, has a number of driving under the influence of alcohol convictions, including convictions in Lincoln County in 1997, 1999, 2001 and 2004. He was convicted of public intoxication in Lincoln County in 2002 and of possession of marijuana in Lincoln County in 1998.

According to that, he didn't go to the front door and knock or ring the door bell. That would have been a good idea.

He has several DUIs and the sheriff said he's a pretty mean individual when "he had a load on".

The guy was most likely high, probably on drugs (I don't care about pot, but who knows what else could have been involved), and probably very scary to the old lady. Again, she made the right call.

He was probably involved in drinking and doing drugs with his sister. It's not like it was an honest accident or something. They were doing something illegal to begin with. He was most likely out driving drunk.

 

[Zebo]

This isnt positive news. This is disheartening news. This woman now has to live with knowing what it feels like to kill someone, irrelevant of why.

Positive news.. what are you smoking, because I want some. :sneaky:

They should give her a metal. Make her feel better you think?

I know I feel better he won't be sucking 80K a year out of the state budget or victimizing anyone else.

PS it was kinda tongue and cheek

 

[zeruty]

SunSamurai, this is positive news compared to what happens every day when people don't have a gun to protect their home, or just don't choose to use it:

http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/28220006001

 

[Telgin]

As mentioned previously, Oklahoma is a "Castle Doctrine" state.

Oklahoma Firearms Act of 1971
Section 1289.25 - Physical or Deadly Force Against Intruder

A. The Legislature hereby recognizes that the citizens of the State of Oklahoma have a right to expect absolute safety within their own homes.

B. A person is presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another when using defensive force that is intended or likely to cause death or great bodily harm to another if:

1. The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against the will of that person from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

2. The person who uses defensive force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was occurring or had occurred.


Would anyone else have remained on the line with the 911 dispatcher? I, for one, would have simply called 911 at the outset and explained the situation. Then, I would have hung up, and not answered the phone when they tried to call back. The 911 operator cannot give you permission to shoot, any more than they can deny you permission to act in self defense. Get off the phone! It's simply a distraction at that point! Also, the court and lawyers have years to second guess what you must decide to do on your own behalf in mere seconds.
I guess there are always going to be those that choose to be self sufficient, and those that are going to rely on others for their survival. I unabashadly choose the former......

Joe

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I listened to the audio up to the point where she shout him. Why did she not make her presense known and about the shotgun? It seems like it was just a drunk guy who had the wrong house thinking it was maybe a friends house. Not saying she doesnt have a right to defend herself but this doesnt sound like a break in to me. Plus the fact she didnt tell the guy the cops were on the way or anything. Odd.

wtf??????
so do you throw patio furniture at the window to try to get into your house or friends houses?

 

[adairusmc]

Good shoot!

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Doesnt need to be any checklist but a least some kind of warning she was home. Turning a light on, yelling at him that the cops are coming and/or i have a shotgun might have detoured him. But no, she just waited silently in the dark until he came in and blew him away. The drunk guy even calls out someones name when knocking on the door so obviously he thinks he is at someone elses house (friend/family member/his own home?)

All im saying is i think it could have been handled better then to just blow him away. Hell she could of just whacked him over the head when he came in. I mean he didnt know she was there so she could have probably gotten away with that. Or even a warning shot.

wow, really????? really?????????????????
take a chance and let him in and whack him over the head? and if she misses or doesn't hit hard enough, now she's fucked.

please stfu.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

I dont think she WANTED to shoot him. I would assume she was hoping he would just go away. But when you leave all your lights off and dont say anything even though your dog is barking up a storm it would probably make anyone think nobody was home. All im saying is i would have handled this situation differently then she did as to not have to kill somebody, who by the sounds of it (911 tape) just had the wrong house. You dont knock loudly on peoples door when trying to break in. Come on now. Shooting him would of been my last resort. Not my first as in that scenario that played out.

yes, because dogs don't bark when the owner is home.
again, please stfu.

 

[soulcougher73]

wtf??????
so do you throw patio furniture at the window to try to get into your house or friends houses?

You should really read the whole thread and listen to the audio for teh first 10 mins. M0RPH posted a follow up article that explained a bit better about the guy and his sister who they assume he thought was dying.

If i was out in the country and my car went into a ditch and i thought my sister was dying and i went to the house and banged on the door and nobody answered and it was the only house around. Youd bet i would break the window to use the phone to call for help. And id gladly pay for any damages to the house later to the home owner. That would be a more perfect scenerio.

Now this guy was drunk and drugged up but i think his intentions were to just get help even though he sort of went about it in a weird way. But the lady never turned a light on or even acknowledged she was home. Just sat in the dark basically till he came in and shot him.

Its an odd story for sure and i can see all sides of it.

 

[BlahBlahYouToo]

Oh wow good find. Like i said i dont think he was actually trying to break in as in to steal stuff or harm the lady. Wow try to save your sister and get shot to death just because some lady didnt want to answer the door or acknowledge she was home. Maybe that was why he was knocking loudly to get the lady to help him by calling the police. And when she didnt he figured nobody was home so he broke in to use the phone only to be shot to death. Just a theory but makes more sense now.

Grrr. Stupid quoting sucks now. Read M0RPH's post 2 up and the link for this to make sense.

yeah, it's nice to know after the fact isn't it?

again, pls stfu.

 

[meltdown75]

e-fightttttttt!

 

[zinfamous]

wtf??????
so do you throw patio furniture at the window to try to get into your house or friends houses?

most rational people? no

crazy belligerent drunks? behavior is more common than you think.

my take is that while she likely had the right to do what she did, and I do think she did the correct thing, this is an extremely unfortunate incident. No one really gains anything from this, as both sides of the gun debate have no fodder and honestly, this looks much better for the anti-gun argument if all the facts line up as they appear to be.

in the same token, if this guy was indeed a crazy asshat of a drunk (and not just desperately seeking help), this woman may have done a few people a favor. who knows...

 

[soulcougher73]

yeah, it's nice to know after the fact isn't it?

again, pls stfu.

Yup. Now this lady who didnt want to have to kill him in the first place gets to live the rest of her life knowing she killed a man most likely because he was seeking help for his sister. I bet she feels good about this. Maybe next time she will at least acknowledge someone is home and get the guy talking more. It's a sad story all around on all parts of it.

You are making youself look like a fool for not reading the whole thing before posting.

 

[spidey07]

Yup. Now this lady who didnt want to have to kill him in the first place gets to live the rest of her life knowing she killed a man most likely because he was seeking help for his sister. I bet she feels good about this. Maybe next time she will at least acknowledge someone is home and get the guy talking more. It's a sad story all around on all parts of it.

You are making youself look like a fool for not reading the whole thing before posting.

Not really. If you enter somebodies home, uninvited, in most states you can expect to be shot and by law the shooter cannot be charged with a crime or be held liable in civil court.

How do we solve this problem? By not entering the home in the first place. This is the very foundation of Castle Laws.

 

[skace]

If i was out in the country and my car went into a ditch and i thought my sister was dying and i went to the house and banged on the door and nobody answered and it was the only house around. Youd bet i would break the window to use the phone to call for help. And id gladly pay for any damages to the house later to the home owner. That would be a more perfect scenerio.

And you'd risk getting shot. And if you got shot it would be your fault. We understand the mentality of "do everything" for the ones you love. However, when the things you are doing are illegal, you have to realize there are repercussions to your actions. It doesn't matter if the person makes themselves known in their own house, when you choose to B&E, you accept whatever fate is waiting for you.

You also do yourself a disservice by trying to compare any such situation with the one this person was in. Unless you find yourself often drugged out of your fucking mind and driving around, which not only is incredibly irresponsible and could have killed people, but also illegal in it's own right.

 

[squirrel dog]

Waggy,get a shotgun.

 

[soulcougher73]

Not really. If you enter somebodies home, uninvited, in most states you can expect to be shot and by law the shooter cannot be charged with a crime or be held liable in civil court.

How do we solve this problem? By not entering the home in the first place. This is the very foundation of Castle Laws.

I am not defending her right to shoot him. In fact im all for the Castle Laws. I am just saying maybe she should have answered the guys knocking in some fashion. Turn a light on. Yell at him go away. Point a gun at him. Anything other then hiding in the dark with a shotgun awaiting his arrival is all. Could have avoided killing someone who was just seeking help because she played possum.

 

[soulcougher73]

And you'd risk getting shot. And if you got shot it would be your fault. We understand the mentality of "do everything" for the ones you love. However, when the things you are doing are illegal, you have to realize there are repercussions to your actions. It doesn't matter if the person makes themselves known in their own house, when you choose to B&E, you accept whatever fate is waiting for you.

You also do yourself a disservice by trying to compare any such situation with the one this person was in. Unless you find yourself often drugged out of your fucking mind and driving around, which not only is incredibly irresponsible and could have killed people, but also illegal in it's own right.

I know its illegal to break in and im taking that chance. But at the same time with a dog barking up a storm, me knocking loudly on the door, and yelling "Pat" out and nobody responded in anyway. No light on, no nothing. I would assume they were not home and take the chance. But because this lady refused to acknowledge him in any way she has to live with killing an man who by the sounds of it was trying to do the right thing.

 

[Cdubneeddeal]

I know its illegal to break in and im taking that chance. But at the same time with a dog barking up a storm, me knocking loudly on the door, and yelling "Pat" out and nobody responded in anyway. No light on, no nothing. I would assume they were not home and take the chance. But because this lady refused to acknowledge him in any way she has to live with killing an man who by the sounds of it was trying to do the right thing.

Listen to the whole audio. The lights were on then she turned them off. What's this right thing you speak of?

 

[soulcougher73]

Listen to the whole audio. The lights were on then she turned them off. What's this right thing you speak of?

Trying to save his sisters life. Duh. I agree he went about it in the wrong way most likely because he was drunk and stoned but his intentions were good and i dont think he had any intention of a real break in or even harming this lady. And i think as more facts come out this lady will regret not having spoken up and talked to the guy. Im not saying she had to open the door, but you can yell at him from inside the house and tell him the cops are on the way to help you and your sister. All the while holding your shotgun for protection.

As i said its a sad situation on all sides. It played out badly.

 

[MrPickins]

I know its illegal to break in and im taking that chance. But at the same time with a dog barking up a storm, me knocking loudly on the door, and yelling "Pat" out and nobody responded in anyway. No light on, no nothing. I would assume they were not home and take the chance. But because this lady refused to acknowledge him in any way she has to live with killing an man who by the sounds of it was trying to do the right thing.

Maybe you should read the article.

"He didn’t go to the front door or ring the door bell to try to gain entry,” the sheriff said.

And why should a woman alone out in the country announce her presence if there is an apparently crazy person outside their house?

 

[Mide]

Good for her...what real options did she really have though?