What would you say to a 1.3Ghz celeron system?

[DJBOB]

Hi guys, ok I've run into some cash recently and I'm probably gonna build a new computer to fit in a case I'm planing to build. Well I was thinking the new Celerons that run at 1.3Ghz(do you think it could push along a Radeon 8500 nicely?) are pretty cheap and are duing pretty good in benchmarks. I'm mainly considering it since my case is going to be very thin(about the size of a PS2) and I need components that don't produce a lot of heat. So what do you guys think about it? For the mobo I'll probably be getting an Asus TUA266 so I can put some DDR in unless you guys have a better mobo in mind. Thanks for your help.

Bob

 

[oldfart]

I like the new Tualatin Celerons. Are you interested in overclocking? The "Tualerons" are available in 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3 GHz versions. The 1 GHz run on a 133 MHz FSB will also get you to 1.3 GHz (10 x 133). The advantage is you would be running on a 133 MHz bus instead of the 100 MHz of the 1.3 CPU (13 x 100). The CPU would be cheaper as well. I'd stick with a good i815 based mobo. The 815 is really a rock solid chipset and is the perfect match for that type of CPU.

 

[DJBOB]

Hi oldfart, well yes I am interested in OC which is why I'm choosing Asus over Intel. Trust me I'm using a i820 right now and I've never had a problem with it. Hmm you say they make them in 133FSB flavor? I didn't know that. I know the PIII variation came with that but I didn't think the new celerons did. I would go the PIII way but I'm on a tight budget so that's why I'm choosing the new Celerons.

 

[Flash]

Hi oldfart. I´m interested in overclocking Celerons also. One of my systems was initially a 300A @ 450MHz and was replaced later with a Cel600 @ 900 MHz currently with a slotket in my old Abit BH-6.
Now I want to build a new system for a friend with a Tualatin Celeron or PIII. I will get a CUSL2-C for cheap but I fear this will not work for the Tualatins.
I know there is a 1,2 GHz Tualatin Celeron but I never heard from a 1 or 1,1 Ghz Tualatin Celeron. Is this for shure and do you have any experience with overclocking of the Tualatins? I´m only interested in running @ 133MHz systemclock as I don´t want overclocking the PCI and AGP bus. As mobo I want the CUSL-2 or the TUSL-2.

 

[Tates]

<< .......As mobo I want the CUSL-2 or the TUSL-2. >>



Only the TUSL2 and TUSL2-C have the i815 (b stepping) that supports the Tualatins.

 

[DJBOB]

<< only the TUSL2 and TUSL2-C have the i815 (b stepping) that supports the Tualatins. >>



That's true. Hey the Tates TUA266 (Link) Supports DDR memmory along with SDRAM. Would that be a good choice if I want to do a 1.3Ghz Celeron with the Tualatin core setup? I'm also looking into OC it a lil bit so would that board be a good choice or is there a better one?

Bob

 

[oldfart]

They (Intel) dont make it in a 133 FSB flavor, but YOU can! Here is how it works. Buy the Tualatin Celeron 1.0A CPU. It has a multiplier that is locked @ 10X and runs on a 100 MHz bus. Put that CPU on an overclocking friendly board such as a TUSL2. Set the FSB to 133 instead of 100. 10 x 133 = 1.33. *POOF* like magic you have a 1.3 Tualeron on a 133 FSB! It will be faster than the 1.3 on a 100 MHz bus and costs less. Same with the 1.1. 11 x 133 = 1463. 1.2 and 1.3's are not good candidates for this setup. Around 1.5 or so is where the Tualerons make it. Some people get the C1.2's to 1.6, but many dont. 1.0A and 1.1A are better bets.

PIII's dont benifit much if at all from DDR ram. I would stick with an 815 board. They are a very stable, fast platform.

 

[JmsAndrsn]

<< I know there is a 1,2 GHz Tualatin Celeron but I never heard from a 1 or 1,1 Ghz Tualatin Celeron. Is this for shure and do you have any experience with overclocking of the Tualatins? I´m only interested in running @ 133MHz systemclock as I don´t want overclocking the PCI and AGP bus. As mobo I want the CUSL-2 or the TUSL-2. >>



The 1.0 and 1.1 version were just announced about 3 or 4 weeks ago and are supposed to become available the first part of January. I believe they will be a better value because they will obviously be cheaper than the 1.2 and 1.3(I don't believe the 1.3 is officially out yet either) plus you will be able to reach about the same top speed(around 1.5 -1.6 Ghz) but you will be able to reach this speed with a higher FSB(assuming your components can handle it).

The 1.0 version is supposedly available here but the 1.1 version is pre-order only. This is the only place I have seen them listed.

Also, I've used both the ABIT ST6 as well as the TUSL2-C. I like the ABIT board a little bit better. I don't really have time to go into the reasons but for more details go to www.hardforums.com or the forum at www.overclockers.com and do a search for ST6(and only look in the Intel related forums) and you will see a lot of discussion on these boards.

 

[sandorski]

If you all are buying new mobos, you should seriously consider going SocketA and AthlonXP. With a recently released SocketA mobo there's a good chance of future upgradeability, to well over 2ghz.

 

[oldfart]

<< I'm mainly considering it since my case is going to be very thin(about the size of a PS2) and I need components that don't produce a lot of heat. >>

 

[apoppin]

Well, Intelwon't be issuing any Tualatin Celerons much over 1.5Ghz so the new MB is a dead end as far as upgrading goes.

I still have my BX board with a PowerLeap adapter and a 1.2Ghz Celeron. The newest PL adapters allow for voltage manipulation so you can overclock.

Mine - for $169 (CPU/adapter/HSF) - was an excellent interim solution to upgrade from my PIII@800Mhz. All my games and applications run great . . . however, this Spring, I plan to finally get a Northwood 533FSB solution for the BIG upgrade.

 

[oldfart]

How is a BX and Powerleap relevant to what he is trying to build? He wants to build a low heat low profile setup that will fit in a very small case.

 

[apoppin]

How is it relevant?

Let me explain . . .

He is asking what I think of a Tualatin Celeron system. I think is is a "dead end" solution. I personally think it is a lot of work for something that will be stuck well-below 2Ghz.

My alternative solution was to use his current MB - if applicable - and use the Celeron as an INTERIM solution.

The best solution - already given - was to forget Celeron completely and build an inexpensive Athlon or Duron system that IS upgradeable. DDR was already pointed out to be a waste for the Celerons.

Clear enough? I think it was relevant . . . my advice was "don't bother" (but I didn't want to be so blunt).



EDIT: "What would you say to a 1.3Ghz celeron system?" Building it? - Just say, NO!

 

[rogue1979]

Crap, when did the Celeron 1GHz Tualatin come out? That is perfect, most Tualatins seem to make it to 1500MHz, only a few go 1600.
10 x 150 on an 815 board is heaven! I'm gonna order one this week!

 

[oldfart]

Sorry apoppin, I still don?t get your thinking. Why do you think he has an old BX system to upgrade? He said he wants to build a new low heat low profile system. 2nd, cost. The Powerleap is $170 for a 1.2 GHz 100 MHz FSB. As you know, overclocking is not a feature that is a strong point with it. The 1.0A is going to be ~ $80. You can get a nice 815e Tually mobo for ~ $90. The 1.0A will easily run 150 FSB (with decent ram) for a 1.5 GHz combo. Something you can not do with a Powerleap. Powerleap is an OK option for BX slot 1 upgrades if you dont want the minor hassle of setting up a new mobo I guess, but not preferable for using the correct motherboard for the CPU.

For his design, low heat is critical. In a tiny case such as the one he will be using, a 2 GHz anything is a big problem. The Tualatin Celeron fits what he needs quite well.

rogue1979, they should be out this week. The return of the Celeron 50% overclock. The 150 MHz FSB is a nice setup to get some more bandwidth out the the system. If you have crappy ram that wont do 150 MHz, the 1.1A @ 133 FSB = 1.463 is pretty decent also.

 

[DJBOB]

Ok so from what I can see a Celeron Tualatin at 1Ghz or maybe 1.1Ghz is the best option since I'll get more FSB out of it.



<< said he wants to build a new low heat low profile system. 2nd, cost. >>



That is correct. This system isn't a XP1800 killer or a Northwood Killer. It's simply something I'm going to build that will be cheap, produce little heat(very little room for airflow), but still be able to push along games nicely. Since I just ordered a Radeon 8500(comes in tomorrow cant wait ) My old PIII system using a whole 128MB PC800 on XP Pro doesn't have the RAM so I have to use a huge page file just to get games to load quickly. That's one of the main reasons I'm choosing the Celeron at 1~1.1Ghz. Cheap, Reliable, And moderatly fast.

So by building this Celeron system I'll more then likely return to PC133~150 SDRAM. That's ok. A lot more affordable then RDRAM(although not by much but still cheaper).

Now that leaves the question about motherboards. I keep seeing the i815 as a good choice. My only draw back is completly Intel boards (like the VC820 or CC820) by rule aren't good OCers. No bios support and only the option of 133FSB by a jumper. So I need a motherboard that OCs good <looks at asus and abit>. So what I think would be a board by one of these 2 companys with the i815 chipset with b stepping correct? Thanks for all your help guys.

Bob

 

[oldfart]

Some good 815E boards:
ASUS TUSL2-C
ABIT ST6
Gigabyte GA-6OXET-C
MSI 6337

Crucial PC133 (the 7ns version) will do 150 FSB no problem.

 

[apoppin]

<< Sorry apoppin, I still don?t get your thinking. >>


I'm sorry, I thought I had explained myself . . . I really don't think too much of the Celeron system (even though I have one; I just MENTIONED the PL - which, BTW is NOW O/C'ing friendly). He did ask for opinions and his current PIII could probably be upgraded without any more expense than $169 total.

If I was doing it from scratch, I'd plan for upgradeability - even a cool-running entry level P4 system or Athlon system with case fans - that today's adequate 1.3-1.6 Ghz will be SLOW next year when games are finally going to use the Radeon 8500 and GF3.

However, he did finally come into his own thread and make it clear he already had his heart set on a Tualatin Celeron system. In which case, I say "fine" . . . I understand his reasoning. And you guys are the best to advise him on MBs so I'll butt out.

 

[oldfart]

DJBOB, I dont know what kind of aurflow you will have, but be careful on your temps. Here are a few numbers:

Tualatin @ 1 GHz: 25 watts
Tualatin @ 1.1 GHz: 27.5 watts
Tualatin @ 1.2 GHz: 30 watts
Tualatin @ 1.3 GHz: 33 watts
Tualatin @ 1.5 GHz: 38watts (@ 1.5 Vcore)
Tualatin @ 1.5 GHz: 44watts (@ 1.6Vcore)

You can see if you get up in the higher speeds and have to use more Vcore, things heat up more. Dont forget the R 8500, HD etc also generate some heat.

To compare some other CPU's:

P4 @ 1.3 GHz: 49 watts
Duron @ 1.2 GHz: 55 watts
XP 1500 (1.33 GHz): 60 watts

 

[DJBOB]

Thanks for the temps oldfart, and to the rest of you guys. This has been a warm welcome to the Anandtech forums. It's not like there is going to be no airflow, maybe 2 80mm or 60mms. The layout doesn't have lots of wires everywhere, it's just a very small case to work with once all the components are put in. I'm looking into more of a centrifugal(sp*) air cooled system rathen then 80mm case fans since I can direct the air easier and move a lot more of it. Eitherway it'll look cool. I'll post some pics if I ever get a digi cam. But of course it will use the standard ATX layout so I could throw in a P4 board & chip later down the road. Well I'm off to look for supplies.

Bob

 

[sandorski]

Hmm, yea I suppose I missed the low profile/heat part.

 

[GregMal]

It's just amazing............Anytime an Intel thread is started, someone always
has to recommend an AMD solution................
I believe that the Celeron/Tualatin is a very reasonable, low cost solution,
whether you overclock or not.
I just put in an order for a Soyo TISU MB and a 1.2GHz Celeron Tualatin.
This will replace my Celeron 466, Asus P299 ZX system which has been a rock
solid stable Win98SE home system for about 2 years. I hope this upgrade
will last me a year or 2...........
Greg

 

[oldfart]

I just ordered a Tualeron 1.0A box retail with HS/Fan for $85. I orderd a Gigabyte GA-60XET-C mobo for $90 also. This mobo has many cool overclocking features. This setup will easily go to 1.5 GHz.

 

[Parrotheader]

It's great to hear they're releasing a 1Gig flavor of these chips. Since I had to replace my Celeron mobo awhile back I went ahead and purchased a Tualatin-capable board (MSI 694T) for just such a purpose. It's a Via chipset, but I personally haven't felt any speed decrease in comparison to the old BX chipset.

Oldfart, where were you able to order 1 Gig at that price?

 

[PING]

oldfart: please excuse my ignorance, how do you compute the watts for a given cpu? in this case a celeron.