*WhatEver* you do *Don't* buy a Sapphire! WithOUT *knowing* Their RMA Process costs $15

[apoppin]

interesting, Imyourzero ... and nice catch ... i might have been upset

you actually DID read this thread ... i'm more impressed

and to be fair re: my one error of judgement in this thread... it is all thru the posts in video if you need hundreds of examples, i can find them


if anyone is interested my *history* of bothx1950ps are *detailed* in this gigiantic thread ... i reread it to find my wrongly posted 3DMark scores

http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...atid=31&threadid=1944853&enterthread=y

everything ... including my thoughts about the card {cheap} to PS questions are *thoroughly detailed* in that thread

my PS simply wouldn't handle an O/C ... everything else ran normalls as it exceeded Sapphires minimum spec

and NO ... there should be no *processing fee* ... if it's MY FAULT, i would pay for it

 

[CaiNaM]

Originally posted by: apoppinyou're the one with the *silly comparison* to Frys ... Frys is NOT the manufacturer[/b]

it's not silly; the same principle applies. it's just an analogy. they place the burden of getting it there and back on the customer; sapphire is doing the same thing.

Well then i am the first one to get any *attention* about it

don't think so highly of yourself, you're not the first to mention or get *attention* on this subject; a quick scan of sapphire's forums will show you that.

"lots of" ... you're the one with the bold claim ... *you* google it

i did, which is why i said what i said...

Sapphire is NOT cheaper than ATi's other partners ... don't bring up nvidia cards .,.. with Sapphire *everything* is CHEAP - the packing is below minimal - but they charge just as much PLUS they screw you on RMA ...

they are always consistently among the least expensive ati partners. you could have spent $60 more on the powercolor model with a different cooler and a better warranty (199 vs 259).

as for *cheap*, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. i'm just tired of seeing spammed and cross-threaded. in fact, that's my only reason for the response in the first place. i can certainly empathize that you're bummed over having to pay a fee, but you take it to extremes and act like it's the end the world, when in fact it's the cost of a sale-priced 1/2 case of beer..

at any rate, what you say about quality could be true on the x1950 512mb (i had a visiontek and have HIS, so i don't know about this particular sapphire), but there's a couple close in price - ane they all appear to use the same board/hsf (maybe they're even build by sapphire). in any case, it's certainly not true across their entire line. i've had both bba and sapphire x18/1900xt's and they are identical.

like you *know anything* about what "i was thinking" ... but you say it as IF it were true
:roll:

don't care what you were thinking; just stating the end result.

ZZf was the *only* retailer at the time i got my Sapphire x1950p that carried it ... and WTH does NewEgg have to do with Crapphire's RMA policy?

i dunno about Crapphire, but newegg is contracted by Sapphire to handle their rma exchanges for the fist year. that's what it has to do with it.

... in the 2nd year of warranty you are screwed out of it without paying the extortion[/b]

no, you simply pay the $15 and wait 2-3 weeks.

as usual *beside* the point completely
:thumbsdown:

which is usually your defense when you have no other answer, but it's a 'cop out' of a response.

and you are 100% clueless about "elite" members

how is that? was there an election when i wasn't looking?

what else? my "motivation" ? Get REAL
:roll:

huh?

"if you" .... "if you" ... would have, could have, should have ... thanks for the stupid *lecture*
... if you, too

:Q



IF i *knew* [past tense] about Sapphires' Craptastic RMA extortion Scam, i would NOT be authoring this thread

ignorance is a poor excuse.

i personally *recommended* these bastages and i am setting the record straight
:brokenheart:

all at once
:music:

again, it costs $15, so what? you've already stated that several dozen times... quit crying and get over it.

 

[Ragnarok2]

I dunno man my Sapphire 512MB X1800PRO maxes out on every game comes with every cable ever invented. One bad event shouldn't be your deciding factor on Sapphire.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: CaiNaM

again, it costs $15, so what? you've already stated that several dozen times... quit crying and get over it.

it's called principle

perhaps you are lacking

don't judge me by your lack
---------------------------

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
I dunno man my Sapphire 512MB X1800PRO maxes out on every game comes with every cable ever invented. One bad event shouldn't be your deciding factor on Sapphire.

again WHAT does manufacturing an awesome video card have to do with Sapphire's previously UN-disclosed Warranty RMA Extorting $15 from me to process it?

--and if it fails again, it will be another $15

no ... Sapphire is *out* ... unless they change their nickel-and-dime attitude toward their customers

i have plenty of *choice* - now - for an x1950p ... and it *won't* be Sapphire
:thumbsdown:

bbATi is worlds better RMA and identical cards

 

[Steve]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sm8000
Why the hell would I read all this???

why the hell would you butt in without knowing the issue ... at all?


Cliff's notes : My problem is with Craphire's RMA Policy that is NOT disclosed until you RMA

i.e

You MUST pay them $15 before they will even consider your RMA

and each time it is returned defective ...
:thumbsdown:

Wow, you really need to chill, kiddo. I was joking around with you. Take a pill. I for one find the whole thing to be a relatively minor issue, but you're welcome to feel superior in your opinion.

 

[tcsenter]

As zebo said,
"RMAer pays shiping back the manufacturer and manufacturer pays all repair costs and shipping back to you." Thats pretty much a standard in the computer hardware market.

Actually, numerous manufacturers including ASUS charge a service fee for handling the warranty and RMA process directly to the end-user instead of through their authorized reseller or distributor.

The policy, which is not uncommon by any means, is that all warranty service is to be handled through the reseller or distributor. If the reseller or distributor won't provide this service or has went out of business, that's not the fault of the manufacturer. In such cases, it is not uncommmon for the manufacturer to charge a fee to perform a service it does not normally extend directly to the end-user.

The problem here is the retailer/reseller, who should have handled this service for the customer. If their policies leave the customer to fend for themselves after 15 or 30 days, then don't buy from that reseller in the future.

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: apoppin


but then a *fanboy* cannot comprehend that someone *else* is not one

Wow, I am wounded. :laugh:

 

[Zebo]

AMD has nothing to do with any of this. stop talking out of your ass

Like hell they don't. They licence people like Sapphire to manufacture under thier supervision and terms. Thats like saying if a concete sub-contrator forgot to put rebar in your houses foundation and it sank the General contractor is not responisble. I know who I'm sueing. Both in case youre wondering. a) one did faulty work b) and the one who let it slide under thier supevison and authority.

 

[Zebo]

Actually, numerous manufacturers including ASUS charge a service fee for handling the warranty and RMA process directly to the end-user instead of through their authorized reseller or distributo

PLEASE start a new informative thread. ASUS is now off my list too. If you're implying it's common place or kosher I disagree. This is the first thread many of us have even heard of such a practice hence the massive rebuffs to such practices.

If one has to read the fine print of a "warranty" it aint much of a warranty in my eyes.,Perhaps they should change the name to "we'll fix it, for a fee. for 2 whole years" to maintain some accuracy of what thier defective products will cost the end user.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: Zebo

AMD has nothing to do with any of this. stop talking out of your ass

Like hell they don't. They licence people like Sapphire to manufacture under thier supervision and terms. Thats like saying if a concete sub-contrator forgot to put rebar in your houses foundation and it sank the General contractor is not responisble. I know who I'm sueing. Both in case youre wondering. a) one did faulty work b) and the one who let it slide under thier supevison and authority.

Except there is no comparison here as a matter of law. Now had this been an ATI branded card built by Sapphire for ATI, that would parallel your analogy as contractor-subcontrator. As long as its manufactured by Sapphire for distribution and sale under its own brand, there is no contractor relationship. Only a supplier relationship and pursuant supplier/purchasing agreement.

BTW, typically, in a true contractor-subcontractor relationship, the contractor is not legally liable for the deficiencies or sub-standard work of the sub-contractor because the contractor has no control over the manner and details in which the job is done on a day-to-day basis. In fact, one of the two primary reasons for contracting out work is to reduce one's liability, since the sub-contractor becomes liable for work they performed.

See: Independent Contractor

You can certainly sue both, but only one of them will be a named party in your lawsuit after a judge gets through vetting it. There are exceptions, but this wouldn't be one of them.

PLEASE start a new informative thread. ASUS is now off my list too. If you're implying it's common place or kosher I disagree. This is the first thread many of us have even heard of such a practice hence the massive rebuffs to such practices.

Difference between "new" and "new to you":

ECS Warranty Policy:

"ECS Warranty is offered to direct customers with valid ECS invoice only." (e.g. resellers and distributors who purchase direct from ECS)

ASUS Motherboard Warranty Policy:

"Where to Repair ? Please contact your reseller." (IOW, we don't offer warranty direct to end-user)

MSI Warranty Policy:

"MSI Motherboards are warranted for 3 year limited warranty (Two years Parts & Labor, and the third Year Parts ONLY, shipping and handling fee will be required)."


Many companies make exceptions to the 'direct customer only' policy as a courtesy to end-users who cannot get satisfactory warranty service from the reseller or distributor, but may require a diagnostic/testing fee to be paid in advance, refundable only if the product is found defective (due to the exceptionally high percentage of non-defective returns), and/or require the end-user pay for return shipping. Gigabyte mandates a diagnostic/testing fee after one No Trouble Found (NTF) incident.

Again, their warranty and RMA systems are all setup through the reseller or distributor, because motherboards are components (no matter how they are packaged), not complete retail products.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Zebo

AMD has nothing to do with any of this. stop talking out of your ass

Like hell they don't. They licence people like Sapphire to manufacture under thier supervision and terms. Thats like saying if a concete sub-contrator forgot to put rebar in your houses foundation and it sank the General contractor is not responisble. I know who I'm sueing. Both in case youre wondering. a) one did faulty work b) and the one who let it slide under thier supevison and authority.

Except there is no comparison here as a matter of law. Now had this been an ATI branded card built by Sapphire for ATI, that would parallel your analogy as contractor-subcontrator. As long as its manufactured by Sapphire for distribution and sale under its own brand, there is no contractor relationship. Only a supplier relationship and pursuant supplier/purchasing agreement.

BTW, typically, in a true contractor-subcontractor relationship, the contractor is not legally liable for the deficiencies or sub-standard work of the sub-contractor because the contractor has no control over the manner and details in which the job is done on a day-to-day basis. In fact, one of the two primary reasons for contracting out work is to reduce one's liability, since the sub-contractor becomes liable for work they performed.

See: Independent Contractor

You can certainly sue both, but only one of them will be a named party in your lawsuit after a judge gets through vetting it. There are exceptions, but this wouldn't be one of them.

Whoever told you that is a broke contractor or talking out of thie ass, Generals are repsonsible legally for everything thier subs do. Check your states code.

 

[tcsenter]

Whoever told you that is a broke contractor or talking out of thie ass, Generals are repsonsible legally for everything thier subs do. Check your states code

A general contractor is exclusively construction or demolition related (building bridges, roads, or buildings), not manufacturing. The manufacturing sector is not subject to building codes and regs for their products, only environmental and safety regulations, labor laws, and product liability (tort). States often prescribe or define exactly who is liable for what in construction related work. No such luck in manufacturer-supplier relationships.

In these cases, you would never find a court to hold ATI responsible for a product that Sapphire manufactured and marketed under its own brand, nor for Sapphire's failure to honor its warranty on its product.

 

[Mem]

I have RMAed a few products in my time and never had to pay a RMA processing fee,worst cases for me was I had to pay for delivery of the faulty products back to them(to be expected).

Best cases I have had was when they came to my house (LG,CTX,Epson)and picked up my faulty product and gave me an exhange replacement on the spot.


I have had very good RMA support from Crucial,CTX,LG,Epson over the years.

Crucial were great to me since they tested and confirmed my ram was faulty , even when I had lost my invoice guarantee they still sent me a ram replacement right away.

 

[tcsenter]

I have had very good RMA support from Crucial,CTX,LG,Epson over the years.

Monitors and printers are final consumer products (appliances), thus the warranties are extended direct to the consumer from the manufacturer. These products are not used in the manufacture or assembly of another product, though they may require extraneous connection to other devices to function. The difference is a complete TV set vs. the circuit board, video decoding chip, or CRT inside of the TV.

Most component markets, no matter how they are packaged, are the same way. Buy a Panasonic capacitor from Radio Shack or Newark Electronics and try to return it to Panasonic. Buy a brake rotor from Napa and try to return it to the Chinese manufacturer. Ain't going to happen.

Crucial explicitly extends a compatibility guarantee and exchange/replacement warranty to the consumer (and you pay for it up front in the price rather than at the time of service). Some do, many others don't.

Personally, I would rather pay the $15 ~ $25 for that one instance out of 25 that I might need to return a component, rather than pay the same $15 ~ $25 extra up front for every component I purchase. e.g.

1 x $15 = $15.00 lost

25 x $15 = $375.00 lost

The latter is like purchasing a non-refundable extended warranty on every component you buy.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: apoppin


but then a *fanboy* cannot comprehend that someone *else* is not one

Wow, I am wounded. :laugh:

You are a Fanboy? :Q
self-admitted?

i was speaking generally ... but thanks for the *confirmation*

==================

Originally posted by: sm8000

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: sm8000
Why the hell would I read all this???

why the hell would you butt in without knowing the issue ... at all?


Cliff's notes : My problem is with Craphire's RMA Policy that is NOT disclosed until you RMA

i.e

You MUST pay them $15 before they will even consider your RMA

and each time it is returned defective ...
:thumbsdown:

Wow, you really need to chill, kiddo. I was joking around with you. Take a pill. I for one find the whole thing to be a relatively minor issue, but you're welcome to feel superior in your opinion.

and i was joking right back at you ... in exactly the same way a you posted ... take your own pill, i am OK with my opinion
=========================

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: Zebo

AMD has nothing to do with any of this. stop talking out of your ass

Like hell they don't. They licence people like Sapphire to manufacture under thier supervision and terms. Thats like saying if a concete sub-contrator forgot to put rebar in your houses foundation and it sank the General contractor is not responisble. I know who I'm sueing. Both in case youre wondering. a) one did faulty work b) and the one who let it slide under thier supevison and authority.

Except there is no comparison here as a matter of law. Now had this been an ATI branded card built by Sapphire for ATI, that would parallel your analogy as contractor-subcontrator. As long as its manufactured by Sapphire for distribution and sale under its own brand, there is no contractor relationship. Only a supplier relationship and pursuant supplier/purchasing agreement.

BTW, typically, in a true contractor-subcontractor relationship, the contractor is not legally liable for the deficiencies or sub-standard work of the sub-contractor because the contractor has no control over the manner and details in which the job is done on a day-to-day basis. In fact, one of the two primary reasons for contracting out work is to reduce one's liability, since the sub-contractor becomes liable for work they performed.

See: Independent Contractor

You can certainly sue both, but only one of them will be a named party in your lawsuit after a judge gets through vetting it. There are exceptions, but this wouldn't be one of them.

PLEASE start a new informative thread. ASUS is now off my list too. If you're implying it's common place or kosher I disagree. This is the first thread many of us have even heard of such a practice hence the massive rebuffs to such practices.

Difference between "new" and "new to you":

ECS Warranty Policy:

"ECS Warranty is offered to direct customers with valid ECS invoice only." (e.g. resellers and distributors who purchase direct from ECS)

ASUS Motherboard Warranty Policy:

"Where to Repair ? Please contact your reseller." (IOW, we don't offer warranty direct to end-user)

MSI Warranty Policy:

"MSI Motherboards are warranted for 3 year limited warranty (Two years Parts & Labor, and the third Year Parts ONLY, shipping and handling fee will be required)."


Many companies make exceptions to the 'direct customer only' policy as a courtesy to end-users who cannot get satisfactory warranty service from the reseller or distributor, but may require a diagnostic/testing fee to be paid in advance, refundable only if the product is found defective (due to the exceptionally high percentage of non-defective returns), and/or require the end-user pay for return shipping. Gigabyte mandates a diagnostic/testing fee after one No Trouble Found (NTF) incident.

Again, their warranty and RMA systems are all setup through the reseller or distributor, because motherboards are components (no matter how they are packaged), not complete retail products.

very nice tcsenter ... EXCEPT you can't find ANY *disclaimers* for Sapphire Warranty like you can with other manufacturers

you get the *surprise* when they try to stick you up the butt with a *RMA Processing Fee*

Who *else* besides Sapphire has this GARBAGE rma policy?

so i can put them on my DoNotBuy list

most companies add a nickel or dime to every product to cover their warranty extension costs without extorting the end user in a RMA

 

[jiffylube1024]

That's pretty annoying, but too many guys on here get too worked up for their principles.

$15 for an RMA is an annoyance, but a deal breaker -- come on! $15 to RMA a <$200 video card? If they sent you a defective card back, and asked you to pay again, I could understand your angst, but being this upset to spearhead a 7-page debate on something like this seems excessive.

I had to pay $15 CDN to RMA a $50 Enermax PSU. That was a pain (and like the Sapphire RMA, it was not mentioned anywhere). Enermax, apparently, has free RMA's in the US but not in Canada.

But that's their perogative. Considering shipping costs, etc and what they are today, $15 for a new video card isn't so bad, provided they actually fix the problem.

I say, get the replacement card and just move on... Bigger things to worry about out there.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: jiffylube1024
That's pretty annoying, but too many guys on here get too worked up for their principles.

$15 for an RMA is an annoyance, but a deal breaker -- come on! $15 to RMA a <$200 video card? If they sent you a defective card back, and asked you to pay again, I could understand your angst, but being this upset to spearhead a 7-page debate on something like this seems excessive.

I had to pay $15 CDN to RMA a $50 Enermax PSU. That was a pain (and like the Sapphire RMA, it was not mentioned anywhere). Enermax, apparently, has free RMA's in the US but not in Canada.

But that's their perogative. Considering shipping costs, etc and what they are today, $15 for a new video card isn't so bad, provided they actually fix the problem.

I say, get the replacement card and just move on... Bigger things to worry about out there.

excuse me ... but just because you are a *pushover* - some of us are not
[i can understand ... Having the USA for a "neighbor" ]


as i stated ... over-and-over- annoyingly, ad infinitum:
this is a PSA ... a head's up ... a warning ... a notice

Sapphire Charges for their RMA

that's all

if you *don't care* continue on as usual

if you *do care* ... well then

now you know

simple

i am stating my experience and expressing my feelings to my cyber-family ... here:

Sapphire's Craptastic RAM policy stinks

my opinion

and i'd like to shake them up a bit by duplicating this on every forum i visit

 

[Steve]

<shakes head> I can't believe this thread is by an allegedly elite member with 23,000+ posts. I would expect it for a first post from one of those self-righteous consumer types, complete with the default avatar. But this is someone who should know better, yet it seems he has nothing better to do than smear it all over "every forum i visit" :roll:

<sigh>

 

[13Gigatons]

Suddenly buying a video card at a B/M and paying the 2 year replacement guarantee doesn't seem that foolish. Of course the card die 20 months after purchase and I was upgraded to a new card for free and had to buy the 2 year replacement guarantee again but that's ok.

 

[nitromullet]

ATI needs a BFG or EVGA type company selling thier cards. Biggest detractor from buying an ATI card IMO is that none of their partners (or ATI themselves, apparently) knows anything about customer service. I had an experience with HIS and Monarch that resulted in a 3 MONTH long RMA - basically my video card was worth about half of what I paid for it by the time I got it replaced...

 

[ronnn]

Originally posted by: apoppin


but then a *fanboy* cannot comprehend that someone *else* is not one

Wow, I am wounded. :laugh:
[/quote]

You are a Fanboy? :Q
self-admitted?

i was speaking generally ... but thanks for the *confirmation*


[/quote]

Fanboys can change teams, much like viral marketers. I am not the one with over 2300 posts.......... :wine:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ronnn

Originally posted by: apoppin


but then a *fanboy* cannot comprehend that someone *else* is not one

Wow, I am wounded. :laugh:

You are a Fanboy? :Q
self-admitted?

i was speaking generally ... but thanks for the *confirmation*


[/quote]

Fanboys can change teams, much like viral marketers. I am not the one with over 2300 posts.......... :wine:

[/quote]look again ... you are
:Q

and you'd don't have that much to say

i figured out why i like reading your posts ... for comic relief
____________________________

Originally posted by: sm8000
<shakes head> I can't believe this thread is by an allegedly elite member with 23,000+ posts. I would expect it for a first post from one of those self-righteous consumer types, complete with the default avatar. But this is someone who should know better, yet it seems he has nothing better to do than smear it all over "every forum i visit" :roll:

<sigh>

it is not *allegedly*

your expectations are low

and i believe it is a PSA ... nevermind what you think

=============

anyway ... what to do ...

so i consulted the best legal mind i know and here is a solution for me:

1) RMA the card, pay the $15 and keep a receipt and document everything
... reason: don't harm my self ... i need a card back or i am at fault for letting it's value diminish by 'waiting' ... the *only issue* is the $15 "fee"

2) Demand Sapphire *refund* my $15 AFTER i get it back ... perhaps it is my fault

and go from there ... then

in the meantime ... i believe it is "fair" to INFORM others about Sapphire's RMA Fee ...
... as long as i don't libel them

and MOST IMPORTANTLY [in my mind] is to update you to see how Sapphire responds so you can weigh future purchases from them


apoppin is nobody's fool




in the *meantime* i may just upgrade to next years PS, stick Sapphie back in my rig and give you a real comparison with the 7800GS ... both o/c'd to the limit
:gift:

 

[Agentbolt]

Man, Apoppin, I've read this thread and I agree with your annoyance over some pretty scummy business practices, but if you want anyone to take you seriously you need to bring it down roughly 9 notches. The incessant *words* and overall tone of your posts is more indicative of an epic rant than a valid argument.

Sapphire is cheap and people should be aware that if the part fails they will be expected to pay unfair charges to get it fixed. We get it. Thanks for the heads-up, they won't be getting my business.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Agentbolt
Man, Apoppin, I've read this thread and I agree with your annoyance over some pretty scummy business practices, but if you want anyone to take you seriously you need to bring it down roughly 9 notches. The incessant *words* and overall tone of your posts is more indicative of an epic rant than a valid argument.

Sapphire is cheap and people should be aware that if the part fails they will be expected to pay unfair charges to get it fixed. We get it. Thanks for the heads-up, they won't be getting my business.

so do you agree with my toned down and updated *solution* ?
post ^above^ yours and also first post "update"

heck it IS video

and just last week there was a thread complaining that it was *dull*

well it isn't dull anymore


and i thank-you for participating in the 'entertainment' provided for your amusement until r600 arrives

and you're also welcome

i exist to serve

sure

 

[Avalon]

Connect3D offers a two year warranty that doesn't involve any fees. You just pay to ship the card to them, and that's that. Don't think they make AGP X1950Pros, although I could be wrong...but just throwing that out there. They're usually cheap compared to other brands and their warranty is good, which is why most of my ATI cards have been from them.

Now, you want to hear about a bad RMA policy...let's talk about Geil. IF you can manage to get an RMA number from them, and send it in...you never see your memory again. They also stop responding to you by that point.