This issue has totally been blown out of proportion. This is my opinion:
I
don't deny the Radeon is a good board. The board is a nice, well-rounded card which in my opinion comes in at an easy second place among PC video cards. My real problem is with 3dfx and their Voodoos, which are totally inferior to anything else.
As a gamer on the budget I want a card with the best bang for buck. No-one here can deny that the GF2 MX has this, so that is what I will replace my V3 2000 with. If I did have $300 to spend, I would certainly consider a Radeon but I would choose a GF2 in the end. I would never even think of a Voodoo though.
I want speed anyway and I don't mind running at 640 X 480 or 800 X 600 to achieve high fps. Once again you cannot deny the MX isn't the best price/perfomance card at these resolutions.
The DXTC issue in Q3 does not concern me or most other nVidia users because it is only in one game (that I play), can be avoided, and it is also very likely to be fixed. The other games play just fine.
For
gamers I believe the GF based boards are simply better at gaming than the Radeon. The Radeon certainly has other attractive features but I buy video cards for gaming and for at least a decent 2D picture quality. DVD is not really an issue for me.
That is not to say the Radeon is a useless gaming board. But I still think nVidia's boards are simply better at gaming overall.
Now, on to the responses...
Whatever.... Simple fact is you made that sentince sound like the Radeon had something that it doesn't. It wasn't a "oh it was Video RAM"... I had a bunch of my friends read that sentince and they all agreed you tried to make it sound like something else then "oh mixing up the english to be cool and say video ram."
I can't believe there are so many paranoid readers in this forum. I can see I will have to be careful with choosing my words or you will think it's a conspiracy to confuse you or something.
BTW don't give me tips about english when you can't even spell. There is no such word as "sentince" my friend.
I am not a die hard Radeon fan. This is my first ATI card. If anything I am more of a Nvidia fan then anything, last cards i had before this Radeon was a TNT, TNT2 Ultra, then the Geforce. This card just simply beat the Geforce GTS in features as well as speed (when the DET2 drivers were all that were out)
OK fine, I don't have problem with that. I would still say the GF2 is better a better gaming card overall. For features certainly the Radeon, but all I am after is gaming (and decent 2D too).
Your post up above (unless you edit it out so that you can say you never said anything) talked about how it was a joke to think ATI could produce any driver updates with any tweaks. Well moron, i just told you they came out with 2 beta drivers that not only made the Radeon a little bit faster but, also made the image quality even BETTER. Sorry if your to stupid to figure out that is what is called a "tweak". So you just wasted your own time telling me that i wasted mine.
Well that's fine. Based on ATI's track record that is surprising but I certainly believe you. nVidia are also working on new drivers as we speak.
Should be interseting indeed.
Well... My hat is off to you and your 640*480 and 800*600 G2MX. Oh yeah you will whip my Radeons butt (Techno stop laughing).... but, but, but wait... I don't play games at those resolutions. I play at 1280*1024 or at 1600*1200. And thats why (besides having better features) the Radeon was made in the first place. Not only for the user of 640x480 and 800x600 (ATI saw it was fast ENOUGH at those resolutions and moved on) but mostly for people that play at 1024x768 and UP in 32BIT.
Well I am happy with this kind of performance for 1/2 - 1/3 the price, as I mentioned before. As for $300, the GF2 edges out the Radeon at high res and demolishes it in low res. Once again I am after raw fps which is why I would go with an nVidia board.
As to the pricing. I wasn't talking about YOU.. i was talking in "general". If a person goes out and buys a $500 card and then 4 months down the road they buy a game that uses a few features not on the Geforce2, and the person really wants to have those features, he has to buy a new card ($200-$325) and hope that someone is dumb enough to buy the $500 video card off him.
You mean like a V5 6000?
The only reason the geforce2 beats the radeon at the moment was because Geforce2 cards were getting spanked by the Radeon when it first came out and the Geforce2 only had DET2 drivers then. So Nvdia reacted by coming out w/ DET3. Do you really think Nvidia would have been in such a hurry to make the DET3 unless they saw a problem on the horizon (a competing card).
Just tell me one thing: do you really think that ATI's driver updates will boost the Radeon to beat a GF2 Ultra? I don't think so. Thus nVidia will remain the speed king yet again until the NV20 comes out.
Also, this just shows your not with it. Yes, carmack and the other guy uses a Geforce... Yes... they are very good programmers.. but guess what hot shot?
I think you forget that Carmack is the single most influential game programmer in the industry. What he says often influences video card manufacturers to put those features on their boards. I think we all remember the rush that all the graphic card companies had last christmas to update their OpenGL drivers. This was
exclusively so they wouldn't miss out on running Quake 3.
EDIT.... Looks like ATI just came out with another beta driver update for Win2K. So... 2 for Win2K and 2 for Win9X. And still... with in 1 month of release.
Big deal. nVidia at one stage were updating their drivers once every two weeks as well.
What???... huh???... They didn't use the exclusive NVIDIA CARD? The SAME Nvidia card that goes in the X-box? The SAME Nvidia that is working SSSOOOOO close with Microsoft? Oh my god!!!!!
I'd be interested to see if they run any benchmarks on it and compare it to a GF2 Ultra.
yep. happens when you try to talk graphics with an nvidiot. It's not a computer hardware choice, it's a religion. Mention that something else MIGHT be better for YOUR needs, and they go apesh|t
The same applies for zombies and FATIs.
that's nice. So who cares? I'm not going to spend $300 on a card so I can run low-res. WTF?
I was talking about the
MX which costs $100-$150.
again, if I don't play Q3, then of what relevence are the Q3 scores to me? They say nothing at all about my performance in UT or NFSU. There is more to life than a Q3 benchmark.
Oh so you're a zombie. How come you are agreeing with Techno then? He says he likes the Radeon better than the GF boards because it has more features like DX 8 support (I understand his point).
But what about 3dfx? Not only will the V5
not have DX 8 support but it won't have T&L
either. So what happens when it tries run a game with both? I'll tell you what: both of those VSA (very suckful addons) chips will drop off the board like dead flies.
that didn't answer the question. The 6000 will still run all those games, but they won't run with T&L enabled. Please answer the question. Or better yet, name the games now. Here's all the space you'll need, Good luck: There. Short list I see.
T&L titles.
Thanks for the link Weyoun!
See the point above. Again I don't see how you can agree with Techno. His points directly contradict yours. He wants features but your board has a
lack of features. Stop trying to hitch a ride on his back and argue for yourself.
I can guarantee that i"ll be playing Q3, UT, Deux Ex and NFSU for longer than 3 months. Nice try tho.
Meanwhile GF and Radeon owners will be playing Q3, MDK2, Unreal 2 and the other hundred T&L games either in development or already out there. See the link above.
this has been an issue since Detonator 2, and it has not come even close to being fixed. nvidia doesn't even acknowledge it. Don't hold your breath. I'm not.
Of course they don't acknowledge it. The driver updates are supposed to be unnofficial anyway with no support from nVidia. That's not to say they won't fix it.
er.....WTF? why not just buy a cheapo GeF SDR then? Are you really going to pay more than $100 for a video card to play in low resolutions? Hey man, your $$$. Spend it however you want *laff*
I am getting a cheapo GF2 MX! Do you keep missing the
MX or something?
VRAM is a specific type of RAM used in older graphics cards. At the time it was quite advanced, as it was "dual-ported" and allowed information to be read and written to the card at the same time. In its day, it was considered "better memory". So you didn't use a synonym, you unwittingly used a computer-specific term incorrectly. Perhaps if you knew more than the words to the GeForce Bible, you'd realize this you silly fella you.
VRAM as I used it is Video RAM, a simple abbreviation of two words. If I had used Video RAM instead would I still be under interrogation? If all you have to cling to is argueing over semantics and interpretations of wording you are argueing for a lost cause.
oh lord dude. WTF do you even care then? Your needs are *very* specific. YOu want 640x480 and 8x6xUGLY. Why do you even bother looking at cards like the 5500, the Radeon, the GTS or the GTS-U? If you spend that much $$$ to play in low resolutions, you're nuts. Go away.....
Because somebody who wants raw fps will not find it with a Radeon and will certainly
not find it with a Voodoo. I have already admitted I am a gamer on a budget. Somebody who wants to spend $$$ for performance can consider the GF2 Ultra.