What's the average age that people are debt free in America?

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ajskydiver

Golden Member
Jan 7, 2000
1,147
1
86
Buy a house and rent it out. Getting the tenant to pay your mortgage for you is a great plan too. Sure you cant deduct the mortgage interest (since this is not your primary residence) but now you can expense all kinds of purchases, mileage etc... in the name of your investment property.

If your income is too high, starting at 120K, the amount of your deductions for your rental expenses is reduced to 30% of actual. At 200K+ ,it goes to 0%.

This is common for many deductions when you have a large income...they just disappear.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
I've got a 2.5 year old and a 1 year old.... What's amazing is that no matter how much daycare costs and diapers and family vacations, toys, clothes, etc... I would do it all again in a heartbeat.

I think the greatest thing about kids are that until you have some of your own, you never know what you're missing. You just think you know what it's like or would be like. The reason it's so great is that for those who want kids, but can't have them....it actually makes things a little easier, though they don't realize it. For those who have kids and see people who can't or don't.....our hearts break a little from those who don't know what they're missing. But hey...not everyone is cutout for parenting either. It's a heck of a commitment and a lot of work.

Actually, my parents adopted a baby when I was 18 and he was almost like a kid to me, so I actually do know quite a bit about kids and actually love them. However, I just have different goals in life and don't want the responsibility.
 

Zodiark1593

Platinum Member
Oct 21, 2012
2,230
4
81
Ramsey's belief is that all debt is bad. I tend to be that way myself. But I certainly understand why people don't rush to pay down a mortgage, as it's just about the only leveraged asset they have access to. It does presume home values will rise and investments will grow more than the mortgage interest rate after factoring in the tax deduction - but that's not a stupid stand to take even if things don't work out. There are no guarantees.

I don't like being in debt on cars so we don't borrow for those. Even if they dangle a 0% interest offer, I still have to worry about the car being upside down in case of an accident.

We worked hard to pay off our mortgage a few years early and put that extra money into savings. Being totally out of debt means that besides food and utilities, the only other money we HAVE to spend is for property taxes.

One of the defining moments in my anti-debt opinion was when I was a kid and my parents borrowed to get new windows in our lower-middle class rowhouse. I don't remember the numbers exactly, but let's say they borrowed $3,000. Pay back over 5 years. They made monthly payments of around $90 for 3 years (sum of about $3,200 paid). Then they got a small inheritance from an aunt and wanted to pay off what they assumed was a small remaining balance. They were told the remaining balance was around $2,000. On a $3,000 loan they paid on for 3 years already!

Turned out the scammy window company finance arm used a method of computing finance charge (precomputed and add) that meant there was no benefit to paying the loan early. The total they owed was about $5300 (including finance charge) and they owed that amount even if they had paid the loan off in the first month. That really had an impact on me - if I borrow money, it's on the lender's terms even if they are unfair to the extreme.

Beyond the financial benefits of being debt-free, there is the aspect of freedom. You have more freedom to make big life choices when you don't have to worry about paying back debt to make them work.
Excellent points above.

I'm in the camp where debt is a useful tool for a temporary boost of financial power, but should be used as seldom as possible and carries an additional element of risk. Obviously, if the payoff is worth it (house now vs 30 years later) then by all means, shop around and go for it. Though different people apparently have different standards of what is worth the risk.

I did borrow from my grandparents at one point, however, I paid it off in half a year. Can't say the same for my sister though. I fear she will be the one in debt trouble.
 
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xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
Actually, my parents adopted a baby when I was 18 and he was almost like a kid to me, so I actually do know quite a bit about kids and actually love them. However, I just have different goals in life and don't want the responsibility.

People call me selfish all the time because I care more about money and accomplishments than reproducing. I think it's the other way around with the environmental crisis that the world is facing.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Most Americans become debt free on the date of their death. The rest are outliers.

Those of you who think you will be debt free by your fifties or 65 are totally forgetting the concept of offspring.

I did it at 37 with two kids. Without debt, I pay for my daughter's college as it comes (i.e. no long term savings touched - I simply save enough in the same year that the tuition is due).

All retirement accounts are being maxed out and I'm still able to save about 5-10K into regular savings on top of that. No, we're not the typical ATOT high income earning family.
 
Oct 25, 2006
11,036
11
91
People call me selfish all the time because I care more about money and accomplishments than reproducing. I think it's the other way around with the environmental crisis that the world is facing.

People have some sort of weird sense of smug superiority when it comes to kids.

Seriously, feeling heartbroken to see that other couples don't want kids? That's pretty damn smug.
 

purbeast0

No Lifer
Sep 13, 2001
52,931
5,803
126
being a father for only 6 weeks, i can definitely say that there is no way to explain the feeling you get from a child until you have one. the first time he fell asleep on my chest in the hospital it was a crazy feeling that simply cannot be explained in words. it's just one of those things you have to feel and experience to understand.

that said, i also can see why people would not want to be parents and have a kid. it's a ton of work and requires a ton of money/time and sacrifices, and many people simply won't want to do it.

i mean i haven't even been able to use my home theater at full blast for 6 weeks
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
Housing prices seem to be in a bubble pretty much everywhere. The appreciation is great in the short term, but what about the longer term? What are the true market forces behind a 25% growth? Did any of the market fundamentals change? My guess is that because more and more homes are getting bundled into investments the valuation cycle will start to resemble equities. Home might still grow 2-3% per year but there will be large and ups and downs in the market.

The biggest thing was moving foreclosed homes over the past few years. Inventory shrunk. What we are seeing is the market returning to some level of normalcy. Also with reduced inventories we have really low interest rates. Which makes purchasing a home attractive right now. Especially with the fear in a rate hike coming up. We may get a correction due to the rate hike.
 

xeemzor

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2005
2,599
1
71
The biggest thing was moving foreclosed homes over the past few years. Inventory shrunk. What we are seeing is the market returning to some level of normalcy. Also with reduced inventories we have really low interest rates. Which makes purchasing a home attractive right now. Especially with the fear in a rate hike coming up. We may get a correction due to the rate hike.

There is no way that the value of most homes on the market match any sense of reality. There is a reason the 3x household income rule exists. Especially since most college kids have a boat load of debt from school that they have to pay off before they can buy a house. The long term demand simply isn't there.

Let me ask the question this way:

Is it better to buy a 150k home at 4% or a 100K home at 8%, assuming you have the cash saved up? With higher rates there is less demand. I'm waiting for rates to go up so that I have to pay less on the principal. Any savings on interest are small in comparison.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,714
164
106
We are essentially debt free. Still have a mortgage just under $300k at 3.25% on our primary residence, but our mountain condo is completely paid off, and if I really wanted to pay off the house, I could sell the mountain condo and be try's debt free. I have no interest in doing that at the moment as we are getting close to 5% returns (via VRBO) on the condo and get to use it pretty regularly. Currently it is appreciating pretty quickly as well (recent comps from the complex are looking really good). In the next year or so if I see a bubble starting up there, I will likely cash out and sit in that money till we decide on a new primary residence.

Even if we were to buy a new primary residence, I would still keep the current house here in Denver as a rental. An inferior house across the street just rented out for $3250 a month...my mortgage is right at $2000 (including taxes/insurance) a month. It just seems ignorant at this point to pay off my mortgage.

While I think the housing prices around here (Denver) are out of control (and probably a bubble), it is nice to know my property is going up in value. (We bought for just under $500k 2.5 years ago and comps are selling for the $620-630k range now. Would hate to be in the market right now.

I'm 36.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,558
27,863
136
Bad debt...me owing someone.
Good debt...someone owing me and paying regularly.

Debt free by the time I was 44 (51 now) but that's only because I opened my own place. Otherwise, I'd still be in debt. I do have a 14y.o. so we'll see what college brings.

You gonna cut him a student loan? You could make bank.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
People call me selfish all the time because I care more about money and accomplishments than reproducing. I think it's the other way around with the environmental crisis that the world is facing.

Yeah, my main priorities are traveling and house projects at this point. People here have called me selfish for not wanting kids but their opinion is worth about as much as my dog's opinion on this topic.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,656
687
126
People have some sort of weird sense of smug superiority when it comes to kids.

Seriously, feeling heartbroken to see that other couples don't want kids? That's pretty damn smug.

Ouch, I missed that when I skimmed the comments. Yeah, that does sound smug but I guess when I see people dragging along a herd of kicking and screaming kids, clearly frustrated with them, my heart breaks for them because they don't know what they're missing by not having them so I guess that's pretty smug too.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
There is no way that the value of most homes on the market match any sense of reality. There is a reason the 3x household income rule exists. Especially since most college kids have a boat load of debt from school that they have to pay off before they can buy a house. The long term demand simply isn't there.

Let me ask the question this way:

Is it better to buy a 150k home at 4% or a 100K home at 8%, assuming you have the cash saved up? With higher rates there is less demand. I'm waiting for rates to go up so that I have to pay less on the principal. Any savings on interest are small in comparison.

Depends on the market of course. But when the market crashed inventories soared. It took years to work through all of those foreclosed homes. It has only been in the last couple years where we are catching up.

For instance my house has had recent appreciation running 15-20% per year for the past 3 years. But my house is still worth less than it was right before the crash. I probably have 2-3 years more to go to break even from where it was worth in 2006-2007.
 

nakedfrog

No Lifer
Apr 3, 2001
58,570
12,874
136
So we can all agree that Vdubchaos is an idiot and needs to just STFU about, well, pretty much everything?
being a father for only 6 weeks, i can definitely say that there is no way to explain the feeling you get from a child until you have one. the first time he fell asleep on my chest in the hospital it was a crazy feeling that simply cannot be explained in words. it's just one of those things you have to feel and experience to understand.
It's true.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,411
10
0
Yeah, my main priorities are traveling and house projects at this point. People here have called me selfish for not wanting kids but their opinion is worth about as much as my dog's opinion on this topic.

You are doing just fine.

What parents of "young"/Baby kids are describing in this thread is on point BUT also remember that their are raving about early parenthood years, which are the best parenthood years......and most of them are complete newbs.

I love when people have kids and few months later they are experts...with one kid too.....complain about how hard it is. As kids get older/bigger, their opinion will change.

I still wouldn't change a thing (I have 3 teenagers right now) if I could go back. But keep in mind I always wanted kids since very early age and always loved kids. Those are the reasons why I had them. Not to "preserve" family or to "fulfill" family image etc (like most people)......and many other SELFISH reasons.

Most parents are WAY more selfish than those that don't have kids.

I also know many parents that would not do it the same way if they can go back and not have kids at all.....
 
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NoCreativity

Golden Member
Feb 28, 2008
1,735
62
91
There is no way that the value of most homes on the market match any sense of reality. There is a reason the 3x household income rule exists. Especially since most college kids have a boat load of debt from school that they have to pay off before they can buy a house. The long term demand simply isn't there.

Let me ask the question this way:

Is it better to buy a 150k home at 4% or a 100K home at 8%, assuming you have the cash saved up? With higher rates there is less demand. I'm waiting for rates to go up so that I have to pay less on the principal. Any savings on interest are small in comparison.

Using Bankrate.com's mortgage calculator and assuming 30 year fixed:

$150K @ 4% = $107,804.26 of interest - $716/month payment

$100K @ 8% = $164,155.25 of interest - $733/month payment

Assuming 15 year fixed:

$150K @ 4% = $49,715.74 of interest - $1109/month payment

$100K @ 8% = $72,017.38 of interest - $956/month payment

Moral of story is to pay more principal and lower interest if you plan on taking a mortgage.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,714
164
106
Hell no. His mother would forgive it.



And Pete, you've got twin girls. You'll never be debt free. On the bright side, manimal has triplets.


This is very true (it's actually a boy and girl, but that doesn't make them any less of a liability)...and we actually have one more on the way (just found out), so you can see we are good at making poor financial decisions.
 

Vdubchaos

Lifer
Nov 11, 2009
10,411
10
0
This is very true (it's actually a boy and girl, but that doesn't make them any less of a liability)...and we actually have one more on the way (just found out), so you can see we are good at making poor financial decisions.

Congrats

If it wasn't for poor decisions, human kind would no longer be around.....don't worry.

There is no such a thing as "being ready financially" for parenthood.

I've worked with a lawyer that "planned and was in much better financial position than most". His son had cancer when he was born, insurance denied him coverage/dropped him and his bank account and financial status quickly dwindled to NOTHING. Sure he was in debt up to his nose after few years, but he was just fine......money or no money.

We humans have natural ability to adjust and make due with that ever it is that comes our way.

It will be just fine, don't worry.

Enjoy the little guys and have a ball!
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,563
5,966
136
This is very true (it's actually a boy and girl, but that doesn't make them any less of a liability)...and we actually have one more on the way (just found out), so you can see we are good at making poor financial decisions.
Blame it on the wife. You were just poking fun and she took you seriously.


Grats on the newcomer. We stopped at one. We were older when he came along and the wife tried to die during the process. No way she's getting off that easy.
 

Engineer

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
39,234
701
126
Blame it on the wife. You were just poking fun and she took you seriously.


Grats on the newcomer. We stopped at one. We were older when he came along and the wife tried to die during the process. No way she's getting off that easy.

LOL! :biggrin:

Congrats @PricklyPete on the new one!
 

Blanky

Platinum Member
Oct 18, 2014
2,457
12
46
I have a positive net worth but being "debt free" I doubt I will ever do. Is a leased car a debt? Not really. A house is, but I don't expect to have no mortgage for decades. I supposed only debt is a hose since a car lease doesn't count.
 

PricklyPete

Lifer
Sep 17, 2002
14,714
164
106
Blame it on the wife. You were just poking fun and she took you seriously.


Grats on the newcomer. We stopped at one. We were older when he came along and the wife tried to die during the process. No way she's getting off that easy.


Child birth is a seriously scary ordeal. I think that experience would have made us stop as well.

That reminds me...I really should have life insurance on the wife.
 
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