What's the best Photo Printer?

Psyber

Senior member
Oct 27, 1999
677
0
0
I wanted something to print my photos with. I already have a HP Deskjet for my everyday printing, but I'm looking for something that can do borderless photos. Any review site suggestions? Any specific models I should look into? Preferably somethig that doesn't have ink that costs a fortune.
 

waylman

Diamond Member
Apr 4, 2003
3,473
0
0
canon makes great photo printers. I have an older model (i850 i think) and it's very nice.
 

Shagga

Diamond Member
Nov 9, 1999
4,421
0
76
Originally posted by: waylman
canon makes great photo printers. I have an older model (i850 i think) and it's very nice.

I agree. Canon make excellent photo printers. I have the S9000 and it is awesome. The S900 is the A4 version but tend to be a bit expensive.
 

Rankor

Golden Member
Jul 10, 2000
1,667
0
0
I think the Canon CP series of photo printers are pretty decent w/c use dye sublimation.

Very nice pics. I have an older CP-100 and I have had no complaints with this product.
 

katka

Senior member
Jun 19, 2001
708
0
0
Olympus P400 it is expensive $200 to $400 but well worth it. I prints photo developed quality prints. Use google to look up a few reviews.
 

ThatDumbGuy

Senior member
Jul 14, 2001
647
0
0
My wife likes her ~85 dollar HP Photosmart 7150 just fine. Unfortunately ATM we don't have the resolution to make full size pictures, but when I get a new digital camera, it should be sweet.
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
Currently the best inkjet photo printer is the Canon i960...Quality, cost of use etc.
$197 at Sams w/usb cable.

The high end Epsons and HPs come close on quality but fail badly on cost of use.

If you need more information let me know.
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
Currently the best inkjet photo printer is the Canon i960...Quality, cost of use etc.
$197 at Sams w/usb cable.

The high end Epsons and HPs come close on quality but fail badly on cost of use.

If you need more information let me know.
 

Looney

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
21,941
5
0
I have an HP 5750... nice looking printer, and prints great too. But if this dies, i'm definitely going to pick up a Canon. They print just as good if not better, and their cartridges are dirt cheap compared to the hp catridges prices... and their cartridges don't have the chip, so you can use refill kits on them without problems.
 

GRIFFIN1

Golden Member
Nov 10, 1999
1,403
6
81
How much better is the i960 than the i560? The price of the i960 is twice as much as the i560, so I'll just go with the i560 if it can come close the the print quality of the i960. The printer will not be used that much, so speed has nothing to do with my decision. I'm only interested in the quality of prints.
 

DancingBear

Member
Jun 18, 2000
71
0
0
Canons are typically faster and cheaper to use. I think that Epson has better photo print quality. There are new Epsons that use individual ink carts, so they should be close in terms of cost. They are faster than they used to be also.

Whatever you do, don't worry too much about the cost of the printer, the ink and paper costs overshadow those pretty quickly.

My list to consider: Canon i960, i860, Epson R300, C84
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
RE:"How much better is the i960 than the i560?"

That's subjective but the i960 with 6 cartridges will produce better photos than the i560 with it's 4 cartridges. You can probably see this side by side. The i560 OTOH, will produce fantastic photos in it's own right. The i560 is more of an all around printer that does great photos. It's black ink tank is larger than the one in the i960 so it's more suited for printing black and white pages.

Between the i960 and the i560 is the i860. It has more memory than the i560 and LIKE the i960 it has a dedicated "add-in" 4x6 paper tray. The i860 also has two black cartridges and this is supposed to give you darker blacks but my jury is still out on this.

As for HPs, Lexmarks, Epsons etc., it takes about three cartridge changes for people to stop singing the praises of their purchases and realize what the game is.

You can get generic cartridges for Canons for as little as $1.65/cart or a little more for ISO certified generics from the likes of megatoners.com, monsterinkjets.com or tylermartin.com.
Think tanks are also easy to refill an unlike HPs and the others you can easily monitor ink levels.
There are even AUTO-inking systems for Canons that DO work well. I use them.

Mac
 

Yoshi

Golden Member
Nov 6, 1999
1,215
0
0
Another vote for Canon, picked up the i960 a few weeks ago and love it. Fast photos even at the best quality settings and the best and most cost effective ink management system on the market. I'll doubt I'll touch an Epson or HP again.
 

RyanM

Platinum Member
Feb 12, 2001
2,387
0
76
Epson R300.

Best consumer-level photo-printer EVAR.

If you can actually find one in stores....damn things aren't being manufactured fast enough.

Don't even look at an HP. They're like the Sony of the printer world, a company floating on its good name and putting out sub-par products. If you have some sort of Epson phobia, get a Canon i960, but be warned you're losing card-reading/printing abilities, and you'll never be able to print on a CD like you could with the R300.
 

deadseasquirrel

Golden Member
Nov 20, 2001
1,736
0
0
just bought an i560s at sam's for $99. thought i could use the $30 rebate on canon's site, but it specifically states that it does not apply to the i560s... it appears that the regular i560 goes for about 129 most places, but the i560s is $99 (rebate pretty much figured into the cost then).

all the money talk aside, though, the wife has now printed out dozens of 8x10s, 5x7s, 4x6s, wallets, etc and she has given it her stamped approval. she is also amazed at how quiet the darn thing is... and it even has a "quiet" mode that i haven't even tried yet.

i hated my old HP from 4+ yrs ago, so i got an Epson back in '99. clogs all the dang time (my son still tries to use it). bought a lexmark z65 a year ago and paid way too much for it for what i got-- poor quality.

the canon i560 is the first color printer i have been happy with. i woulda sprung for the i960 but with it's small black cart (1/2 the size of the i560 black cart), it would have been annoying to change it out so often since we print a lot of text as well.
 

Slickone

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 1999
6,120
0
0
I've been looking at the Canon i960 and i860. I have 4x6 photo samples from each. The i960 photos (6 carts) look much better than the i860 (4 carts). And the i560 photos would be like the i860 wouldn't they? The 4x6 paper stock tray on the 860/960 is nice. I wasn't sure if the 2 black carts was good or bad.

I really want to know if Canon's clog as easily as Epsons?
And are the cart prices about the same?
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
RE:"I really want to know if Canon's clog as easily as Epsons?"

NO, Canons don't clog as easily as epsons. This is one main advantage Canons have.
This may have something to do with the way the epson "squirts" the ink out of the printhead using piezio technology like a flex pump vs the Canon (and HP) that boil the ink as a means for evacuating the ink onto the page.


I've even taken the printhead out of a Canon i and s series and run it under tap water until it's totally clear. Blown it dry with compressed air and then a blow dryer (don't want any water under the circuit board connection to short out) and it works great .

Generic cartridges for Epsons can be found nearly as cheap as for Canons but then there is the issue of smart chips in the epson cartridges, the inability to truely know how much ink you have left and the head clogging problems.
As a matter of fact, there is a class action lawsuit against Epson for making their printers refuse to print when there is up to 38% of the ink left in the cartridge.

Epson Faces Consumer Suits

Complaints in three states claim printer vendor cuts off ink cartridges before they're empty.

Tom Spring, PCWorld.com
Friday, October 24, 2003
Editors' note: Epson America has responded with additional comments on this article.


Advertisement




Consumers fed up with the high cost of ink jet cartridges are taking Epson America to court, accusing it of manipulating equipment in order to sell more ink. A lawsuit filed Friday in District Court in Texas claims some models of Epson ink jet cartridges prematurely block Epson printers from functioning even though "substantial ink" remains in the cartridge.

The suit, filed in Jefferson County, is the third such suit involving the same law firm. Like the others, it seeks class action status and asks a judge to order Epson to notify customers that replacement cartridges may still be usable even when Epson's equipment says they're spent, and to compensate customers who discard the usable cartridges.

Harnes Keller LLP of New York, together with local counsel, filed similar claims in a San Mateo, California, Superior Court on Monday, and also at Kings County, New York, Supreme Court in August. Neither case has gone to trial.

An Epson spokesperson declines to comment on any of the lawsuits, beyond calling the initial New York lawsuit "unfounded."


Chip and Cartridge Challenge
The problem is with Epson ink jet cartridges outfitted with an Intellidge microchip, say Harnes Keller attorneys. Because the Intellidge chip stops Epson printers from operating until the ink jet cartridge is replaced, the plaintiffs charge that Epson is in breach of contract with its customers, who are entitled to use all the ink in the cartridge.

The cartridges actually contain up to 38 percent more usable ink after the Intellidge chip cuts them off, according to research cited in the suits.

"Because of Epson's deceptive practices, consumers have been forced to purchase replacement inkjet cartridges prematurely and have paid for ink in inkjet cartridges they can never use," the complaint reads.

Epson responds that a safety reserve of ink remains inside its cartridges after they expire to prevent damage that can occur to the print head if the cartridge runs dry.

The lawyers say they are seeking class status in order to represent anyone who purchased an Epson brand ink jet cartridge fitted with an Intellidge chip.


Not Running on Empty
The complaint also cites research by the British magazine Which! Online. Testers there were able to override the Intellidge chip on Epson cartridges and print between 17 and 38 percent more "good-quality pages."

The testers used a $30 chip resetting mechanism to override the Epson printer chip. Which! Online also reports "premature warnings" of low or no ink using ink jet cartridges from HP, Canon, and Lexmark that continued to produce quality printouts.

Experts say most expired ink jet cartridges, including those from Epson, will have a certain amount of waste ink left over in spent cartridges. How much is left over depends on the manufacturer. Imaging expert Jim Forrest, with Lyra Research, calls the lawsuit against Epson "frivolous." He says an Epson ink jet cartridge that runs completely dry could damage the hardware's printing mechanism. "If Epson says consumers will get 100 printed pages based on its specs, then a consumer will likely get that," Forrest says. "Yes, there may be some ink left over, but that is by design."

Forrest says Intellidge chips are used to monitor the amount of ink inside the ink jet cartridge. The chip does not measure the real volume; instead, it estimates the amount of ink used and predicts when the cartridge will be empty. The chip transmits estimated ink levels to the printer, which alerts the user with a screen message.

"The printer will automatically stop working when there is no more safely usable ink in the cartridge," Epson explains in a written statement. The company says users get all the ink they pay for, because Epson charges for cartridges based on usable ink volume and printed pages per cartridge.

The company provides yield information on printer packaging and on its site, but not on ink jet cartridges.


Related Battles
Smart chips like the Intellidge have raised a firestorm of criticism before. Lexmark recently won a challenge to its cartridge return program. The company offers a discount to consumers who agree to return used cartridges only to Lexmark for refilling or recycling. The policy was unsuccessfully challenged by the Arizona Cartridge Remanufacturers Association, which wanted to be able to refill and resell Lexmark cartridges.

A separate lawsuit brought by Lexmark against Static Control Components of Sanford, North Carolina, is still pending. In that suit, Lexmark has charged that a microchip, the Smartek, made and used by SCC in remanufactured laser printer toner cartridges to defeat Lexmark's technological controls, violates Epson's copyright.

Third-party companies that remanufacture ink jet and toner cartridges complain Intellidge and similar chips make it hard to refill and reuse empty cartridges. Remanufactured ink jet cartridges will work with all Epson printers, although Epson says users won't get the advantage of advanced features like ink level monitors without the Intellidge chip.

Customers, of course, like the lower price tags often offered by third-party ink cartridges. They want the option of buying the no-name cartridges without worrying that using them will damage their printers.


Epson Takes Heat Overseas
In a related matter involving Epson's use of the Intellidge chip, the Dutch Consumer Association recently backed off from its allegation that Epson customers are unfairly charged for ink they can never use.

In July, it advised its 640,000 members to boycott Epson ink jet printers. The Netherlands-based organization urged Epson to modify its printers so they would continue printing until no ink remains in the cartridge. The group also suggested consumers use a third-party mechanism to override the Intellidge chip.

Epson responded with advertisements in several national Dutch newspapers calling the tip "dangerous advice." Epson representatives told Associated Press reporters it is considering legal action against the Dutch Consumers Association.

Later in July, the Dutch consumer group retracted its call for a nationwide boycott of Epson products. It issued a statement conceding that residual ink left in Epson cartridges is necessary for printers to function properly.

 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
RE:"I really want to know if Canon's clog as easily as Epsons?"

NO, Canons don't clog as easily as epsons. This is one main advantage Canons have.
This may have something to do with the way the epson "squirts" the ink out of the printhead using piezio technology like a flex pump vs the Canon (and HP) that boil the ink as a means for evacuating the ink onto the page.


I've even taken the printhead out of a Canon i and s series and run it under tap water until it's totally clear. Blown it dry with compressed air and then a blow dryer (don't want any water under the circuit board connection to short out) and it works great .

Generic cartridges for Epsons can be found nearly as cheap as for Canons but then there is the issue of smart chips in the epson cartridges, the inability to truely know how much ink you have left and the head clogging problems.
As a matter of fact, there is a class action lawsuit against Epson for making their printers refuse to print when there is up to 38% of the ink left in the cartridge.

Epson Faces Consumer Suits

Complaints in three states claim printer vendor cuts off ink cartridges before they're empty.

Tom Spring, PCWorld.com
Friday, October 24, 2003
Editors' note: Epson America has responded with additional comments on this article.


Advertisement




Consumers fed up with the high cost of ink jet cartridges are taking Epson America to court, accusing it of manipulating equipment in order to sell more ink. A lawsuit filed Friday in District Court in Texas claims some models of Epson ink jet cartridges prematurely block Epson printers from functioning even though "substantial ink" remains in the cartridge.

The suit, filed in Jefferson County, is the third such suit involving the same law firm. Like the others, it seeks class action status and asks a judge to order Epson to notify customers that replacement cartridges may still be usable even when Epson's equipment says they're spent, and to compensate customers who discard the usable cartridges.

Harnes Keller LLP of New York, together with local counsel, filed similar claims in a San Mateo, California, Superior Court on Monday, and also at Kings County, New York, Supreme Court in August. Neither case has gone to trial.

An Epson spokesperson declines to comment on any of the lawsuits, beyond calling the initial New York lawsuit "unfounded."


Chip and Cartridge Challenge
The problem is with Epson ink jet cartridges outfitted with an Intellidge microchip, say Harnes Keller attorneys. Because the Intellidge chip stops Epson printers from operating until the ink jet cartridge is replaced, the plaintiffs charge that Epson is in breach of contract with its customers, who are entitled to use all the ink in the cartridge.

The cartridges actually contain up to 38 percent more usable ink after the Intellidge chip cuts them off, according to research cited in the suits.

"Because of Epson's deceptive practices, consumers have been forced to purchase replacement inkjet cartridges prematurely and have paid for ink in inkjet cartridges they can never use," the complaint reads.

Epson responds that a safety reserve of ink remains inside its cartridges after they expire to prevent damage that can occur to the print head if the cartridge runs dry.

The lawyers say they are seeking class status in order to represent anyone who purchased an Epson brand ink jet cartridge fitted with an Intellidge chip.


Not Running on Empty
The complaint also cites research by the British magazine Which! Online. Testers there were able to override the Intellidge chip on Epson cartridges and print between 17 and 38 percent more "good-quality pages."

The testers used a $30 chip resetting mechanism to override the Epson printer chip. Which! Online also reports "premature warnings" of low or no ink using ink jet cartridges from HP, Canon, and Lexmark that continued to produce quality printouts.

Experts say most expired ink jet cartridges, including those from Epson, will have a certain amount of waste ink left over in spent cartridges. How much is left over depends on the manufacturer. Imaging expert Jim Forrest, with Lyra Research, calls the lawsuit against Epson "frivolous." He says an Epson ink jet cartridge that runs completely dry could damage the hardware's printing mechanism. "If Epson says consumers will get 100 printed pages based on its specs, then a consumer will likely get that," Forrest says. "Yes, there may be some ink left over, but that is by design."

Forrest says Intellidge chips are used to monitor the amount of ink inside the ink jet cartridge. The chip does not measure the real volume; instead, it estimates the amount of ink used and predicts when the cartridge will be empty. The chip transmits estimated ink levels to the printer, which alerts the user with a screen message.

"The printer will automatically stop working when there is no more safely usable ink in the cartridge," Epson explains in a written statement. The company says users get all the ink they pay for, because Epson charges for cartridges based on usable ink volume and printed pages per cartridge.

The company provides yield information on printer packaging and on its site, but not on ink jet cartridges.


Related Battles
Smart chips like the Intellidge have raised a firestorm of criticism before. Lexmark recently won a challenge to its cartridge return program. The company offers a discount to consumers who agree to return used cartridges only to Lexmark for refilling or recycling. The policy was unsuccessfully challenged by the Arizona Cartridge Remanufacturers Association, which wanted to be able to refill and resell Lexmark cartridges.

A separate lawsuit brought by Lexmark against Static Control Components of Sanford, North Carolina, is still pending. In that suit, Lexmark has charged that a microchip, the Smartek, made and used by SCC in remanufactured laser printer toner cartridges to defeat Lexmark's technological controls, violates Epson's copyright.

Third-party companies that remanufacture ink jet and toner cartridges complain Intellidge and similar chips make it hard to refill and reuse empty cartridges. Remanufactured ink jet cartridges will work with all Epson printers, although Epson says users won't get the advantage of advanced features like ink level monitors without the Intellidge chip.

Customers, of course, like the lower price tags often offered by third-party ink cartridges. They want the option of buying the no-name cartridges without worrying that using them will damage their printers.


Epson Takes Heat Overseas
In a related matter involving Epson's use of the Intellidge chip, the Dutch Consumer Association recently backed off from its allegation that Epson customers are unfairly charged for ink they can never use.

In July, it advised its 640,000 members to boycott Epson ink jet printers. The Netherlands-based organization urged Epson to modify its printers so they would continue printing until no ink remains in the cartridge. The group also suggested consumers use a third-party mechanism to override the Intellidge chip.

Epson responded with advertisements in several national Dutch newspapers calling the tip "dangerous advice." Epson representatives told Associated Press reporters it is considering legal action against the Dutch Consumers Association.

Later in July, the Dutch consumer group retracted its call for a nationwide boycott of Epson products. It issued a statement conceding that residual ink left in Epson cartridges is necessary for printers to function properly.

 

Slickone

Diamond Member
Dec 31, 1999
6,120
0
0
38%? How do they figure they need that much of a buffer? 10% maybe.

I didn't know Epson's would refuse to print at a certain point. Mine, with factory Epson carts, currently acts like it's out or running out of ink, but it does still try to print. Maybe it's just clogged up real bad. I've tried many cleanings and test prints.

I also didn't know you wouldn't get ink level monitoring with 3rd party carts. Or do you, just not as accurate?

If their printers will refuse to print at a certain point with those particular carts, how do people use DIY refill kits? I did this on an Epson printer with factory Epson carts and it kept printing.

So Canon brand carts are usually cheaper than Epson brand carts? What about the new Epson's with separate color carts?
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
RE:"I also didn't know you wouldn't get ink level monitoring with 3rd party carts. Or do you, just not as accurate?"


The key is that Canon's BCI-3 and 6 series "think tanks" are clear. You can simply look at them and see how much ink you have left. They also are read from the underside via a mirror and will notify you when they are out. There is no internal chip or the need for a chipsetter device to reuse the cartridge. Mind you, not all Epson cartridges have chips but I undersatand the newer ones do.
If you buy a generic they simply recycle the cartridge and reset the chip. For you to refill it it have to use a resetter device.
As far as ink that is left when you get a warning. I tested this myself with HP cartridges, 45 and 78.
Using a snap and fill device I vacuumed out all the ink left AFTER the computer had warned me to replace the cartridge because it was low. It still had nearly 40% of the ink left in it.
If you replaced it then think of how much money you were throwing down the drain if you did that.

RE:"So Canon brand carts are usually cheaper than Epson brand carts? What about the new Epson's with separate color carts?"

Check it out for yourself.

http://www.megatoners.com
http://www.monsterinkjets.com
http://tylermartin.com

lemmie know if you need bulk ink...refill.




 

GRIFFIN1

Golden Member
Nov 10, 1999
1,403
6
81
Originally posted by: Macro2
RE:"I also didn't know you wouldn't get ink level monitoring with 3rd party carts. Or do you, just not as accurate?"


The key is that Canon's BCI-3 and 6 series "think tanks" are clear. You can simply look at them and see how much ink you have left. They also are read from the underside via a mirror and will notify you when they are out. There is no internal chip or the need for a chipsetter device to reuse the cartridge. Mind you, not all Epson cartridges have chips but I undersatand the newer ones do.
If you buy a generic they simply recycle the cartridge and reset the chip. For you to refill it it have to use a resetter device.
As far as ink that is left when you get a warning. I tested this myself with HP cartridges, 45 and 78.
Using a snap and fill device I vacuumed out all the ink left AFTER the computer had warned me to replace the cartridge because it was low. It still had nearly 40% of the ink left in it.
If you replaced it then think of how much money you were throwing down the drain if you did that.

RE:"So Canon brand carts are usually cheaper than Epson brand carts? What about the new Epson's with separate color carts?"

Check it out for yourself.

http://www.megatoners.com
http://www.monsterinkjets.com
http://tylermartin.com

lemmie know if you need bulk ink...refill.


I've decided to get the i960. Sams has an i960x, but I think it's the same thing. Maybe just a different model number so you can't use any rebates on it.

That megatoners.com place almost seems too good to be true. Will the ink in these generic cartridges give the same quality prints as the canon cartridges that cost over 5 times as much? I don't care if the ink level detection stuff doesn't work with the generic cartridges, but I don't want it cloging up the print heads or outputting abnormal colors.

Tell me about your bulk ink refill.
 

Macro2

Diamond Member
May 20, 2000
4,874
0
0
RE:"I've decided to get the i960. Sams has an i960x, but I think it's the same thing. Maybe just a different model number so you can't use any rebates on it."

The difference is that the Sams models come with a USB cable. Depending on where you buy a USB cable that could save you fro $2 to $20.

As far as the quality of generic ink cartridges. That really comes down to the quality of the ink.
I can't tell you the quality of ink is as good as what Canon provides. I can tell you that Canon has a patent on it's magenta color or so I've been told.
Generics are made all over the world. I will say that you have a better chance at quality if you buy ISO 9001 or 9002 certified cartridges. See tylermartin.com they have rainbow and necktron.

Personally, I refill cartridges or auto ink...and I use the best inks made in the USA. Either repeat-o-type or formulabs.
You can buy repeatotype ink from www.atlascopy.com
 

Granorense

Senior member
Oct 20, 2001
699
0
0
My Epson 820 prints great pictures, but if I don't use it for a few days, the next time I want to print anything I have to clean the heads. It's very anoying.
 
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