What's the big deal about the Honda S2000?

[FrustratedUser]

What's the big deal about the Honda S2000?

What do you mean? It's a nice looking sportscar with a high revving 2.0l I-4.
What else do you need to know?

 

[vi edit]

Different strokes for different folks. Some people like the hearty growl and thrust that a V8 provides, some want the light weight flick of the wrist driving dynamics the high reving lightweight S2000 provides.

Neither one is a "better" than the other because they are driven for different types of kicks.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: N8Magic


Remember that HP is a function of torque and RPM's (T x RPM)/5252, and not necessarily an indicator of how strong an engine is. Honda artificially inflates their HP numbers by having high-strung, high-RPM engines that you really have to wring out to extract their potential.

If my diesel engine could rev to 8300RPM it would have 395hp instead of it's current 130!

That's misleading, if not flat out totally wrong. You're assuming the torque output on your motor is constant throughout the entire rev range, which it isn't.


see here

 

[zCypher]

Holy crap...

 

[CraigRT]

special? there isn't anything special.

they're not terribly fast unless you bring the car all the way into red where it makes that 240hp.

they only run 15's.....

 

[Siddhartha]

The Camaro and S2000 represent two different solutions for achieving about the same level of performance: top speed, 0-60 mph, and skidpad.
I like the Chevy small block but I do not like the ergonomics or the solid rear axle of the Camaro and it looks cheap inside. I would prefer a S2000 with a 3 liter six.

 

[vi edit]

I would prefer a S2000 with a 3 liter six.

That's the NSX and it'll cost you three times the amount

 

[LAUST]

Originally posted by: vi_edit
Different strokes for different folks. Some people like the hearty growl and thrust that a V8 provides, some want the light weight flick of the wrist driving dynamics the high reving lightweight S2000 provides.

Neither one is a "better" than the other because they are driven for different types of kicks.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Actually Acura is reducing the price . . . at least in the UK.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Hamburgerpimp
Hah, hah, hah...yeah, those Honda engines - they're not reliable at all...

So why do Honda and Acura have better resale values than any American Car or Truck made?

Don't compare apples to oranges. American trucks have great resale value compared to import "trucks" (ha-ha)

And s2k's aren't even that reliable either... alot of the Honda guys blow their motors or blow up their clutches trying to race them.

Bullsh!t

A Toyota Tundra or Tacoma will have higer resale value than either of its comparable domestic bretheren.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=CARCON.story&STORY=/www/story/01-06-2003/0001865997&EDATE=MON+Jan+06+2003,+05:00+AM

Resale values for the Tundra compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tundra/4draccesscabsr54wdsb47l8cyl4a/tco.html

Resale values for the Tacoma compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/tacoma/2drregularcab4wdsb27l4cyl4a/tco.html

Where's YOUR evidence?

 

[N8Magic]

Originally posted by: OS

Originally posted by: N8Magic


Remember that HP is a function of torque and RPM's (T x RPM)/5252, and not necessarily an indicator of how strong an engine is. Honda artificially inflates their HP numbers by having high-strung, high-RPM engines that you really have to wring out to extract their potential.

If my diesel engine could rev to 8300RPM it would have 395hp instead of it's current 130!

That's misleading, if not flat out totally wrong. You're assuming the torque output on your motor is constant throughout the entire rev range, which it isn't.


see here

That torque curve looks pretty flat to me. Also consider that my TDI is modded.

Admittedly, I did use peak torque for the stock engine in my calculations, but this was a hypothetical situation here. My diesel engine isn't going to be hitting 8300RPM's any time soon. I was just using those numbers to illustrate a point.

I could get crazy and use the peak torque for my engine and come up with a figure of 411hp. How about that?

 

[Viper GTS]

Originally posted by: vi_edit

I would prefer a S2000 with a 3 liter six.

That's the NSX and it'll cost you three times the amount

That's stretching things a little, the NSX is mid-engine & a lot bigger.

Viper GTS

 

[SlowSS]

SLP Camaro SS and Pontiac WS6 both delivered to show room with 345 HP.

SLP is the company who works with GM to convert Z28 to SS and T/A to WS6.

310 HP that everybody is referring to is Z28 and T/A.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Hamburgerpimp
Hah, hah, hah...yeah, those Honda engines - they're not reliable at all...

So why do Honda and Acura have better resale values than any American Car or Truck made?

Don't compare apples to oranges. American trucks have great resale value compared to import "trucks" (ha-ha)

And s2k's aren't even that reliable either... alot of the Honda guys blow their motors or blow up their clutches trying to race them.

Bullsh!t

A Toyota Tundra or Tacoma will have higer resale value than either of its comparable domestic bretheren.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=CARCON.story&STORY=/www/story/01-06-2003/0001865997&EDATE=MON+Jan+06+2003,+05:00+AM

Resale values for the Tundra compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tundra/4draccesscabsr54wdsb47l8cyl4a/tco.html

Resale values for the Tacoma compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/tacoma/2drregularcab4wdsb27l4cyl4a/tco.html

Where's YOUR evidence?

My evidence is my local newspaper. I could give less than a flying fvck what some editor at a website thinks, I'll go buy what I KNOW to be reliable.

Remember, its different down here in Texas. People actually use their trucks sometimes here ;o

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Hamburgerpimp
Hah, hah, hah...yeah, those Honda engines - they're not reliable at all...

So why do Honda and Acura have better resale values than any American Car or Truck made?

Don't compare apples to oranges. American trucks have great resale value compared to import "trucks" (ha-ha)

And s2k's aren't even that reliable either... alot of the Honda guys blow their motors or blow up their clutches trying to race them.

Bullsh!t

A Toyota Tundra or Tacoma will have higer resale value than either of its comparable domestic bretheren.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=CARCON.story&STORY=/www/story/01-06-2003/0001865997&EDATE=MON+Jan+06+2003,+05:00+AM

Resale values for the Tundra compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tundra/4draccesscabsr54wdsb47l8cyl4a/tco.html

Resale values for the Tacoma compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/tacoma/2drregularcab4wdsb27l4cyl4a/tco.html

Where's YOUR evidence?

My evidence is my local newspaper. I could give less than a flying fvck what some editor at a website thinks, I'll go buy what I KNOW to be reliable.

Remember, its different down here in Texas. People actually use their trucks sometimes here ;o

Local newspaper vs Edmunds.com...hmmmmmmm. Hahahhahahahaha

And it's not an editor that does those ratings. It's based on KBB and cost per mile along with other factors. Maybe you should bother to read it

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Hamburgerpimp
Hah, hah, hah...yeah, those Honda engines - they're not reliable at all...

So why do Honda and Acura have better resale values than any American Car or Truck made?

Don't compare apples to oranges. American trucks have great resale value compared to import "trucks" (ha-ha)

And s2k's aren't even that reliable either... alot of the Honda guys blow their motors or blow up their clutches trying to race them.

Bullsh!t

A Toyota Tundra or Tacoma will have higer resale value than either of its comparable domestic bretheren.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=CARCON.story&STORY=/www/story/01-06-2003/0001865997&EDATE=MON+Jan+06+2003,+05:00+AM

Resale values for the Tundra compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tundra/4draccesscabsr54wdsb47l8cyl4a/tco.html

Resale values for the Tacoma compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/tacoma/2drregularcab4wdsb27l4cyl4a/tco.html

Where's YOUR evidence?

My evidence is my local newspaper. I could give less than a flying fvck what some editor at a website thinks, I'll go buy what I KNOW to be reliable.

Remember, its different down here in Texas. People actually use their trucks sometimes here ;o

Local newspaper vs Edmunds.com...hmmmmmmm. Hahahhahahahaha

Yeah, thats exactly what I'm doing now!

Hey look, I'm laughing at the internet! :Q

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: Hamburgerpimp
Hah, hah, hah...yeah, those Honda engines - they're not reliable at all...

So why do Honda and Acura have better resale values than any American Car or Truck made?

Um, it was a joke?

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Not to endorse any stereotypes . . . yeah right . . . things are very different in Texas. The kind of truck use in TX is typically not endorsed in the rest of the country:disgust:. I think even TX has laws against how trucks are used in TX.

 

[CraigRT]

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Hamburgerpimp
Hah, hah, hah...yeah, those Honda engines - they're not reliable at all...

So why do Honda and Acura have better resale values than any American Car or Truck made?

Don't compare apples to oranges. American trucks have great resale value compared to import "trucks" (ha-ha)

And s2k's aren't even that reliable either... alot of the Honda guys blow their motors or blow up their clutches trying to race them.

Bullsh!t

A Toyota Tundra or Tacoma will have higer resale value than either of its comparable domestic bretheren.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=CARCON.story&STORY=/www/story/01-06-2003/0001865997&EDATE=MON+Jan+06+2003,+05:00+AM

Resale values for the Tundra compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tundra/4draccesscabsr54wdsb47l8cyl4a/tco.html

Resale values for the Tacoma compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/tacoma/2drregularcab4wdsb27l4cyl4a/tco.html

Where's YOUR evidence?

My evidence is my local newspaper. I could give less than a flying fvck what some editor at a website thinks, I'll go buy what I KNOW to be reliable.

Remember, its different down here in Texas. People actually use their trucks sometimes here ;o

how could you KNOW the car if you dont own one... if they blow engines, don't you now KNOW that?
Honda is normally reliable. but this high performance engine is not as good as some.

much like owners of BMW M3 are blowing up their engines, and creating quite a fuss about it.

people KNOW those cars to be sweet, but sh!t happens to a certain model here and there.

 

[OS]

Originally posted by: N8Magic

That torque curve looks pretty flat to me. Also consider that my TDI is modded.

Admittedly, I did use peak torque for the stock engine in my calculations, but this was a hypothetical situation here. My diesel engine isn't going to be hitting 8300RPM's any time soon. I was just using those numbers to illustrate a point.

I could get crazy and use the peak torque for my engine and come up with a figure of 411hp. How about that?

uhhh, are you reading the dyno right?? You're looking at the HP line. Look at the chart very carefully and compare peak numbers to the scales on each side.

The torque line is not flat at all, it falls off gradually at 2.5K then rapidly after 4.3K. Basically the motor runs out of breath very rapidly towards upper revs.

 

[HokieESM]

Ok, Ok... I want to straighten something up. I wrote into C/D and Motor Trend about this... yet they didn't publish it (probably because it was too long).

Horsepower per Liter as a useless demonstration of efficiency.

HP/liter is a commonly cited "performance" statistic in modern car magazines. Why? I'm not exactly sure. The Otto cycle (the 4 stroke, gasoline cycle that determines the thermodynamic efficiency of all GASOLINE internal combustion engines) is, at maximum, 33% efficient (as compared to the ideal Carnot cycle). Modern cars are in the range of 28 to 32%. All of them. Every single last one. Most high performance engines are in the 31% range. Regardless of displacement. You see, HP/liter isn't an efficiency measure.... TRUE efficiency is "what you get out from what you put in"... or in this case, the power you get out for the fuel you put in. So, zCypher has it on something.... two cars of relatively similar horsepower get relatively similar gas mileage. What a shock! There are a lot of factors in gas mileage--weight of the car, rolling resistance of the tires, transmission, gear ratios, etc etc etc--but basically, if one could truly measure the amount of gas consumed by two different X-hp engines running at their peak horsepower, they would return nearly identical consumption figures. And this shouldn't be a shock.... using the same process, its hard to make incredible jumps in efficiency. A good examination is the S2000 (the HP/liter champ) versus the last generation M3... similar weight, the same peak HP (240), and shockingly enough, nearly identical MPG figures.

Anyhow. A few other points. Torque, while a interesting and more physically worthwhile number, CANNOT be considered on its own. Torque from the engine and torque from the wheels are related by the transmission and differential ratios--which vary considerably from car to car (I'm willing to bet the S2000 is geared MUCH shorter than the Z28). Horsepower is NOT effected by the gearing (think: conservation of ENERGY)--which is why it is a better measure of an engine's overall performance.



Now as for my opinion on the S2000... high build quality, good looks, decent performance, and a high-wailing engine (9000 rpms!). The Z28 has a good bit of appeal (I grew up driving my dad's 69)... but it appeals to a different audience. Not to mention the reliability issues that plagued the F-bodies... and sometimes iffy build-quality. But lots of fun.

 

[Rent]

Originally posted by: Yield

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: Rent

Originally posted by: Hamburgerpimp
Hah, hah, hah...yeah, those Honda engines - they're not reliable at all...

So why do Honda and Acura have better resale values than any American Car or Truck made?

Don't compare apples to oranges. American trucks have great resale value compared to import "trucks" (ha-ha)

And s2k's aren't even that reliable either... alot of the Honda guys blow their motors or blow up their clutches trying to race them.

Bullsh!t

A Toyota Tundra or Tacoma will have higer resale value than either of its comparable domestic bretheren.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=CARCON.story&STORY=/www/story/01-06-2003/0001865997&EDATE=MON+Jan+06+2003,+05:00+AM

Resale values for the Tundra compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2002/toyota/tundra/4draccesscabsr54wdsb47l8cyl4a/tco.html

Resale values for the Tacoma compared to its competition:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/tacoma/2drregularcab4wdsb27l4cyl4a/tco.html

Where's YOUR evidence?

My evidence is my local newspaper. I could give less than a flying fvck what some editor at a website thinks, I'll go buy what I KNOW to be reliable.

Remember, its different down here in Texas. People actually use their trucks sometimes here ;o

how could you KNOW the car if you dont own one... if they blow engines, don't you now KNOW that?
Honda is normally reliable. but this high performance engine is not as good as some.

much like owners of BMW M3 are blowing up their engines, and creating quite a fuss about it.

people KNOW those cars to be sweet, but sh!t happens to a certain model here and there.

BMW knew before they even launched the E46 M3 that it was snapping connecting rods. But they decided to let every moron with $60k find out for themselves.

I don't own a S2k. I don't want one or need one. But I've seen enough of them in person and I've seen them crap out in person enough to know what I'm talking about.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: HokieESM
Ok, Ok... I want to straighten something up. I wrote into C/D and Motor Trend about this... yet they didn't publish it (probably because it was too long).

Horsepower per Liter as a useless demonstration of efficiency.

HP/liter is a commonly cited "performance" statistic in modern car magazines. Why? I'm not exactly sure. The Otto cycle (the 4 stroke, gasoline cycle that determines the thermodynamic efficiency of all GASOLINE internal combustion engines) is, at maximum, 33% efficient (as compared to the ideal Carnot cycle). Modern cars are in the range of 28 to 32%. All of them. Every single last one. Most high performance engines are in the 31% range. Regardless of displacement. You see, HP/liter isn't an efficiency measure.... TRUE efficiency is "what you get out from what you put in"... or in this case, the power you get out for the fuel you put in. So, zCypher has it on something.... two cars of relatively similar horsepower get relatively similar gas mileage. What a shock! There are a lot of factors in gas mileage--weight of the car, rolling resistance of the tires, transmission, gear ratios, etc etc etc--but basically, if one could truly measure the amount of gas consumed by two different X-hp engines running at their peak horsepower, they would return nearly identical consumption figures. And this shouldn't be a shock.... using the same process, its hard to make incredible jumps in efficiency. A good examination is the S2000 (the HP/liter champ) versus the last generation M3... similar weight, the same peak HP (240), and shockingly enough, nearly identical MPG figures.

Anyhow. A few other points. Torque, while a interesting and more physically worthwhile number, CANNOT be considered on its own. Torque from the engine and torque from the wheels are related by the transmission and differential ratios--which vary considerably from car to car (I'm willing to bet the S2000 is geared MUCH shorter than the Z28). Horsepower is NOT effected by the gearing (think: conservation of ENERGY)--which is why it is a better measure of an engine's overall performance.



Now as for my opinion on the S2000... high build quality, good looks, decent performance, and a high-wailing engine (9000 rpms!). The Z28 has a good bit of appeal (I grew up driving my dad's 69)... but it appeals to a different audience. Not to mention the reliability issues that plagued the F-bodies... and sometimes iffy build-quality. But lots of fun.

Extremely well said.

ZV

 

[Jzero]

Some people like 2-seat roadsters reminiscent of a day when companies like Fiat, MG and Triumph made cars that might not have been fast as much as they were "zippy."

They want to wander around on mountain roads where you can have fun spinning the engine up to high revs and negotiate tight turns.

Other people like bigger, faster, powerful cars, reminiscent of a day when companies like ford, chevy, buick and plymouth made cars that pure muscle.

They want to plow down city streets with their V8s roaring. The cars look like muscle, sound like muscle, drive like muscle.

Different strokes for different folks.

Comparing the S2000 to a Camaro won't help you understand what the "big deal" is. If you aren't into those little roadsters, you'll never "get it," because there is nothing to "get."

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

I don't own a S2k. I don't want one or need one. But I've seen enough of them in person and I've seen them crap out in person enough to know what I'm talking about.

How many have you seen crap out in person?