What's the name of the human experimentations Japanese performed on Koreans and Chinese?

[Aquaman]

My grandmother & mother and my grandfather/ grandmother auntie & dad where in Southern China during the war years. They must have been quite lucky because they did not have many bad experiences with the invading Japanese army. The worst thing to happen to my maternal grandmother was that the Japanese troops took all of her vegtables & some duff pissed in the grainery (rice). Nothing happened to my dads side of the family. I guess I can count my lucky stars that they did not have something like the 'rape of nanking' happen to them.......... otherwise I guess I would not be here.

Cheers,
Aquaman <<<<<<<<<<< who hold not grudge at all too any Japanese people today.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

well the situations weren't exactly alike either. the jews were their own citizens, their friends and neighbors that they murdered. that adds an extra dash of horror to the mixture.

ok, so when are we going to be allowed by your rules to mix situations that are not "exactly alike" and when are we not going to be allowed to do it??

early you mentioned that we never apologized for slavery, how is that the same as the jewish situation and yet when i compare the situation of the asians to the jews you say they aren't the same.

you don't give a fvck about any of this. to you it's all a joke, but to someone who had grandmothers, mothers, sisters, aunts etc living in asia at the time, this isn't a joke so just STFU.

its not matching exactly alike situations. its about degree of perceived horror. we percieving killing a stranger less bad then killing say your sister. i was pointing out that perhaps thats why one gets recognized more then the other.

did u look at the total deaths suffered by all? after the war there was no time for staying in the past, too much recovery to do. yes political pressure was strong on germany, but germany had attacked all the strong western powers, japan had attacked just the us japan had not attacked in ww1 either u know. i'm just saying there are too many factors for the gross oversimplifications and jumping to conclusions that happens in these threads and allows peeps to get all rilled up and indignant over.

and joke? my grandma fled china because of the japanese. but past is past. u percieve me as joking, that is your problem, not mine.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: gopunk

Rape women to get them pregnant and then dissect them to get the fetus.

btw, this was done while the women were ALIVE. imagine your mother getting raped, then cut open and the fetus ripped out. think of how sick you would have to be to even think of doing such a thing.

its not all that surprising. the mad scientists were cutting up live people man or woman to "learn" about human bodies. i'm sure you've heard stories of the german versions. they also put people in freezing chambers to see how long people could last before hypothermia would take u down. they'd also see if they revive u. it was for their pilots/naval personal lost at sea and stuff

who said anything about it being surprising? it's obvious that sick people will be inclined to do sick things. that doesn't mean they aren't sick, and that doesn't mean there should be no apology.

as a society, we should not try and desensitive ourselves to things like this and go "it's not surprising". we should be shocked and outraged.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Some people say i'm stupid for not buying japanese cars. I'm not stupid. I understand that I can't avoid all japanese products, I also understand that "Japanese" cars may not even be made in Japan BUT

the growth of the Japanese Auto industry was a significant economic landmark. SO I chose to not buy any Japanese cars as a SYMBOLIC gesture. Sure it doesn't mean anything except to me and the people that know me. I make it a point to tell all people around me that I chose not to buy japanese cars and WHY.

Just like i don't think we as americans should EVER forget 9-11, I also believe that as an Ethnic korean I should never forget what the Japanese did to the Korean (and other) peoples during WWII.

Yup, cause we know all the 20 and 30 year old hard working Japanse today were the same ones that did this over 50 years ago. It's people like you that cause the hatred to continue because you can't look beyond the past.

Tell that to those that want reparations.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
then again when have we formally apologized for slavery?

you might say we fought a way, we changed blah blah, but did we have the president formally apologize? not really

bill clinton and others have tried to get a national apology passed by congress, etc. at least there is an effort being made. and at least the government does not IGNORE it like it never happened.

not a very high horse we sit on.

it's higher than the midget horse the japanese sit on, apparently.

there are two views. the past is past, you don't have to spend your time apologizing if you know what happened and no longer do that. i think the japanese government and the japanese people do know what happened, just like we know how we passed out deseased blankets to indians, we just don't spend all our time focused over it. thats not the same as denial really. then apologizing, after so much time has past, it becomes harder and probably silly to appologize. how far back do you want the current generations to apologize for

there is a difference between not being focused on it, and attempting to erase it from history. our textbooks include atrocities committed against blacks and indians.

and i don't give a damn how hard or silly it is for japan to apologize, they should have thought of that before they told their army to act like sick f*cks. WWII was not that long ago, it is not unreasonable to expect an apology.

 

[gopunk]

and joke? my grandma fled china because of the japanese. but past is past. u percieve me as joking, that is your problem, not mine.

so you're saying that if a country came and tortured your family, left them dead, you would just be like "past is past"? please.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: gopunk

Rape women to get them pregnant and then dissect them to get the fetus.

btw, this was done while the women were ALIVE. imagine your mother getting raped, then cut open and the fetus ripped out. think of how sick you would have to be to even think of doing such a thing.

its not all that surprising. the mad scientists were cutting up live people man or woman to "learn" about human bodies. i'm sure you've heard stories of the german versions. they also put people in freezing chambers to see how long people could last before hypothermia would take u down. they'd also see if they revive u. it was for their pilots/naval personal lost at sea and stuff

who said anything about it being surprising? it's obvious that sick people will be inclined to do sick things. that doesn't mean they aren't sick, and that doesn't mean there should be no apology.

as a society, we should not try and desensitive ourselves to things like this and go "it's not surprising". we should be shocked and outraged.

your right, i'm a little jaded. i'm not surprised about horrors of the past, thats a given. i'm only surprised by current horrors, which shouldn't be happening anymore.

i'm surprised at the ignorance people have of grizly realities like this. whether its better to keep them innocent and sensitive or to make sure they know damn well.. i duno.

 

[PlatinumGold]

and i don't give a damn how hard or silly it is for japan to apologize, they should have thought of that before they told their army to act like sick f*cks. WWII was not that long ago, it is not unreasonable to expect an apology

damn. it's good to hear others say that Japan should apologize.

i don't get people who want to just pass this off. as if saying that others did similar things to is enough of an excuse.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: gopunk

and joke? my grandma fled china because of the japanese. but past is past. u percieve me as joking, that is your problem, not mine.

so you're saying that if a country came and tortured your family, left them dead, you would just be like "past is past"? please.

? of course the closer the tragedy the worse it is. but say it happened 3..no maybe 4 or 5 generations ago. will you still hold hatred?

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: gopunk

and joke? my grandma fled china because of the japanese. but past is past. u percieve me as joking, that is your problem, not mine.

so you're saying that if a country came and tortured your family, left them dead, you would just be like "past is past"? please.

? of course the closer the tragedy the worse it is. but say it happened 3..no maybe 4 or 5 generations ago. will you still hold hatred?

i have no hatred, except towards the sick f*cks involved in the atrocities, whoever they may be. all i'm asking for is an apology from japan. i don't think that is unreasonable. in fact, i think that is very reasonable.

if japan is sorry for what they did, they will apologize. otherwise... well... i guess we'll know where japan stands on disgusting behavior.

 

[PlatinumGold]

your right, i'm a little jaded. i'm not surprised about horrors of the past, thats a given. i'm only surprised by current horrors, which shouldn't be happening anymore.

i'm surprised at the ignorance people have of grizly realities like this. whether its better to keep them innocent and sensitive or to make sure they know damn well.. i duno.

You must be very young if you think 50 years ago is ancient history. it's not, many of these 20 to 30 year old japanese people you referred to have grandfathers that fought in the war. that commited the atrocities we've spoken of already. we're not more than 2 or 3 generations removed. that is not ancient history.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

and i don't give a damn how hard or silly it is for japan to apologize, they should have thought of that before they told their army to act like sick f*cks. WWII was not that long ago, it is not unreasonable to expect an apology

damn. it's good to hear others say that Japan should apologize.

i don't get people who want to just pass this off. as if saying that others did similar things to is enough of an excuse.

I also think that they should apologize but I also think that the Koreans should ease off a little with all the anti-Japanese attitude, especially when it comes to history. So many things have been blamed on the Japanese and some claims get pretty ridiculous.

Talking about Korea, I also hope that some of the "sick fsck" Koreans to apologize to other fellow Koreans as well. Some of what they did were comparable to, if not worse than, what the Japanese did. I also wish that some of the Korean Japanese do not get discriminated against.

 

[PlatinumGold]

? of course the closer the tragedy the worse it is. but say it happened 3..no maybe 4 or 5 generations ago. will you still hold hatred?

I've posted it several times, Forgiveness starts with the realization that wrong was done first. W/O acknowledgement and an apology from the japanese government, there can be no forgiveness.

you keep talking about hatred, truth is if Japan want's entry back into the society of civilized countries it should be required to acknowledge it's past.

if someone murdered your family, would you simply say, oh we're going to forgive him whethor or not he ever acknowledges he did it or not. whether he asks for forgiveness or not?? should he be allowed back into society w/o acknowledgement of what he's done??

 

[PlatinumGold]

I also hope that some of the "sick fsck" Koreans to apologize to other fellow Koreans as well. Some of what they did were comparable to, if not worse than, what the Japanese did. I also wish that some of the Korean Japanese do not get discriminated against.

Of course they should, but how does that have anything to do w/ the responsibility of the Japanese govt to apologize for their govt sanctioned atrocities??

dahmer should apologize to the families of all the people he killed, so??

 

[0roo0roo]

the question is will you hold the us to the same standard with our slaughtering of indians, recent racism against blacks and other minorities and slavery?

 

[PlatinumGold]

if japan is sorry for what they did, they will apologize. otherwise... well... i guess we'll know where japan stands on disgusting behavior.

actually, there absolute refusal to acknowledge or apologize for in my mind means they are likely to do it again.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
the question is will you hold the us to the same standard with our slaughtering of indians, recent racism against blacks and other minorities and slavery?

actually, that ISN'T the question. the question is "why won't japan apologize?"

but, to answer your question, i don't see why not...
although none of that stuff really compares with what the japanese did. slavery is close, but racism doesn't come close. i'm sure the US has done a lot worse... like tuskegee experiments.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

if japan is sorry for what they did, they will apologize. otherwise... well... i guess we'll know where japan stands on disgusting behavior.

actually, there absolute refusal to acknowledge or apologize for in my mind means they are likely to do it again.

exactly. provided they actually had an army, of course.

this is my point... why do you think they refuse to apologize? because they don't see anything wrong with what they did

 

[PlatinumGold]

the question is will you hold the us to the same standard with our slaughtering of indians, recent racism against blacks and other minorities and slavery?

so here it is again, ur little double standard. when i compare jews and germans to Asians and Japanese you say they are different. now you want everything to be held to the same standard, so which is it??

you say that Japan and Asia was a long time ago and yet, slavery which was even farther in the past you want to bring up. so which is it??

face it, you don't have a point of view, you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. i have a specific point of view and therefore my arguments are consistent.


ok so let's answer it, it wasn't the US govt that declared war on the countries in africa and it wasn't the US armies that captured africans and brought them to america, it was the actions of INDIVIDUALS, It was other african countries that caught the africans to be sold into slavery. It wasn't a govt policy, it was a wink wink they let it slide because it was the culture.

In Germany, what the germans did to the Jews was a state policy of systematic eradication of jews. In Korea, it was a systematic govt policy to eradicate korean language, culture and history. it was also a govt policy that tortured, killed, maimed and did experiments on millions of people.

so which govt is responsible for what?? are their individuals in all countries, all cultures, that were guilty of what happened here in the US?? yes, are govt responsible for that, not necessarily. It wasn't the US govt that carried out the slave trade, it was a series of individuals.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

I also hope that some of the "sick fsck" Koreans to apologize to other fellow Koreans as well. Some of what they did were comparable to, if not worse than, what the Japanese did. I also wish that some of the Korean Japanese do not get discriminated against.

Of course they should, but how does that have anything to do w/ the responsibility of the Japanese govt to apologize for their govt sanctioned atrocities??

dahmer should apologize to the families of all the people he killed, so??

Just adding more stuff to the discussion.

Also, many of those who committed such atrocities were Korean collaborators of the Japanese. Not to say that what the Japanese did were any worse, but it is often neglected that the Japanese could not have possibly controlled Korea the way they did without collaborators. So the whole issue is pretty complicated.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Just adding more stuff to the discussion.

Also, many of those who committed such atrocities were Korean collaborators of the Japanese. Not to say that what the Japanese did were any worse, but it is often neglected that the Japanese could not have possibly controlled Korea the way they did without collaborators. So the whole issue is pretty complicated.

You confuse issues. There were collaborators sure, but ultimately it is the JAPANESE govt that bears the responsibility for these collaborators BECAUSE they are the ones that offered the rewards etc that influenced those collaborators.

this is not complicated. in WWII there were jewish collaborators, guess what they all ended up dead anyway, but there were jewish collaborators, does that lessen the responsiblity of the German govt?? when german overran france, there were french collaborators, does that in any way change the situation?? NO.

quit being stupid.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Just adding more stuff to the discussion.

Also, many of those who committed such atrocities were Korean collaborators of the Japanese. Not to say that what the Japanese did were any worse, but it is often neglected that the Japanese could not have possibly controlled Korea the way they did without collaborators. So the whole issue is pretty complicated.

You confuse issues. There were collaborators sure, but ultimately it is the JAPANESE govt that bears the responsibility for these collaborators BECAUSE they are the ones that offered the rewards etc that influenced those collaborators.

this is not complicated. in WWII there were jewish collaborators, guess what they all ended up dead anyway, but there were jewish collaborators, does that lessen the responsiblity of the German govt?? when german overran france, there were french collaborators, does that in any way change the situation?? NO.

quit being stupid.

Remember you getting frustrated on how people stretched your argument about hatred?

I am in no way arguing that the Japanese government was not responsible. They are, however, often blamed for more than they deserve.

To me, you are oversimplifying this. Many historical issues are complicated and is only more clearly explained if acknowledged that they are complex. No war occurred for a single cause. No atrocities occurred for one source of power to blame.

I am not being stupid. I am merely trying to argue like a historian here.

Any ways, I am trying to argue that as much as the Japanese government should apologize, the Korean people should also loosen up their attitude at the same time. That is all I am arguing.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Remember you getting frustrated on how people stretched your argument about hatred?

I am in no way arguing that the Japanese government was not responsible. They are, however, often blamed for more than they deserve.

To me, you are oversimplifying this. Many historical issues are complicated and is only more clearly explained if acknowledged that they are complex. No war occurred for a single cause. No atrocities occurred for one source of power to blame.

I am not being stupid. I am merely trying to argue like a historian here.

Any ways, I am trying to argue that as much as the Japanese government should apologize, the Korean people should also loosen up their attitude at the same time. That is all I am arguing.

it's a lot easier to argue korean people should loosen up their attitude after more time has passed, BUT do you ever say to jews, loosen up, it wasn't all the germans fault, part of it was the collaborators. do you think that would fly??

your oversimplifying by trying to make something simple seem complicated.

the reason the japanese refuse to apologize is because it would reflect on their emporer. in the minds of the japanese the emporer is ultimately responsible for everything that happens to japan. so even they disagree w/ you. they would laugh at your assertion that collaborators have any responsibility at all.

 

[0roo0roo]

actually no, i'm not using a different standard. i'm just pointing out that if you want one country to apologize, you might as well ask others. china should apologize to its citizens for its purges, its cultural revolution which resulted in countless deaths etc etc.

and whether i'm argueing just to argue doesn't matter you know. if your points are weak it doesn't matter how your opponent picks them apart. i questioned the fairness of focusing just on japan by pointing out others that should be made to appologize, thats all. if you think of reasons why the others shouldn't appologize, maybe you can also apply them to japan.


your double standard is allowing for a culture to be corrupt with implied government blessing in some cases, and not in others. we had laws on the ownership of slavery, it was not just winked at. is the current government of japan the same as the corrupt one in the past? its entirely different. is the us government the same one? a bit muddled eh?

 

[PlatinumGold]

WRONG

in the minds of the japanese people, they never lost the war, they never surrendered they signed a peace treaty. they never gave up their govt, in particular, their emporer and he is still in the minds of most japanese the GOVT.

My arguements arent' weak and your not picking them apart, only in your mind.

i pointed out your inconsistencies and you didn't bother to respond to them because you have no response.

i don't have to call for an apology from any other govt because it isnt' my business.

I have chosen this issue because for me and with my past it is an issue.