What's the name of the human experimentations Japanese performed on Koreans and Chinese?

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

if japan is sorry for what they did, they will apologize. otherwise... well... i guess we'll know where japan stands on disgusting behavior.

actually, there absolute refusal to acknowledge or apologize for in my mind means they are likely to do it again.

exactly. provided they actually had an army, of course.

this is my point... why do you think they refuse to apologize? because they don't see anything wrong with what they did

Well...there are actually 2 viewpoints. One is that they don't want to lose face and lose honor and the "respect" of others towards Japan. I guess thats why they used to dump millions to other Asian countries to shut their consience up. The other fvckers think that Japan didn't do anything wrong and they did what they did to fight the European powers from invading and turning Japan into a colony. There are actually many Japanese who acknowledge their wrong doing in WW2. Of course if there is no formal apology from the govt that's pretty meaningless.

The thing that pisses me off is how many Taiwanese just love Japan. My grandfather simply loved Japan. He said Japan's rule of Taiwan was so much better than when Taiwan was under China's rule.

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
WRONG

in the minds of the japanese people, they never lost the war, they never surrendered they signed a peace treaty. they never gave up their govt, in particular, their emporer and he is still in the minds of most japanese the GOVT.

My arguements arent' weak and your not picking them apart, only in your mind.

i pointed out your inconsistencies and you didn't bother to respond to them because you have no response.

i don't have to call for an apology from any other govt because it isnt' my business.

I have chosen this issue because for me and with my past it is an issue.

Yup, the US kept the Emperor in Japan to avoid any possible civil disorders. The cold war was starting at that time and the US didn't want to lose grip of Japan.

 

[DDCSpeed]

I just want to say that all of things listed are all horrible. They are all guilty of the things they did and we should not compare them as which one are the worst.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: bolido2000


The thing that pisses me off is how many Taiwanese just love Japan. My grandfather simply loved Japan. He said Japan's rule of Taiwan was so much better than when Taiwan was under China's rule.

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and the sushi ( :disgust: )

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: bolido2000


The thing that pisses me off is how many Taiwanese just love Japan. My grandfather simply loved Japan. He said Japan's rule of Taiwan was so much better than when Taiwan was under China's rule.

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and sushi

There is nothing wrong I think in worshiping Jpop, Hello kitty, gizmos, gadgets, etc. I am talking about people who grew up during the Japanese occupation of Taiwan. Ok, so their management was better than the corrupt Chinese. The fact is that Japan still viewed Taiwanese and Chinese to be the same scum.

 

[PlatinumGold]

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and sushi

ya it frustrates me when i see Koreans in america go gooo goo gah gah over japanese cars. it's just a car.

me i've only owned american cars. never regretted it either.

i might buy german but i won't buy japanese until they officially acknowledge and apologise for what they did during WWII.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: bolido2000

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: bolido2000


The thing that pisses me off is how many Taiwanese just love Japan. My grandfather simply loved Japan. He said Japan's rule of Taiwan was so much better than when Taiwan was under China's rule.

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and sushi

There is nothing wrong I think in worshiping Jpop, Hello kitty, gizmos, gadgets, etc. I am talking about people who grew up during the Japanese occupation of Taiwan. Ok, so their management was better than the corrupt Chinese. The fact is that Japan still viewed Taiwanese and Chinese to be the same scum.

yeah i agree that is different. lol reminds of that former president of taiwan.

anyway i really feel this worshipping goes beyond those material things.

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and sushi

ya it frustrates me when i see Koreans in america go gooo goo gah gah over japanese cars. it's just a car.

me i've only owned american cars. never regretted it either.

i might buy german but i won't buy japanese until they officially acknowledge and apologise for what they did during WWII.

Well...the irony I think is that Koreans and Chinese like Japanese cars because in some sense they feel indentified with the Japanase. Kind of like "we" the Asians make better cars than US/Europe. Out of curiosity...do you own ANYTHING that is Japanese??

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and sushi

ya it frustrates me when i see Koreans in america go gooo goo gah gah over japanese cars. it's just a car.

me i've only owned american cars. never regretted it either.

i might buy german but i won't buy japanese until they officially acknowledge and apologise for what they did during WWII.

perhaps it should fustrate you that they buy products made in china which just over 10 years ago decided to run student protesters over with tanks. Tianamen square anyone? i'm hearing screams for apologies... oh wait, i'm not hearing anything

 

[PlatinumGold]

Out of curiosity...do you own ANYTHING that is Japanese??

'

would be tough to avoid it. for me the car was symbolic because the rise of the japanese auto industry was significant.

OrooOroo

how old are you??

basically i'm taking a stand on one issue. ya, i disagree w/ what the chinese did to the students at tianmen square. there are a whole lot of evils in the world i'm never gonna change. I have just chosen 1 particular issue. what exactly is your problem w/ that??

probably because you can not and have never taken a stand on anything in your life.

 

[ManSnake]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and sushi

ya it frustrates me when i see Koreans in america go gooo goo gah gah over japanese cars. it's just a car.

me i've only owned american cars. never regretted it either.

i might buy german but i won't buy japanese until they officially acknowledge and apologise for what they did during WWII.

perhaps it should fustrate you that they buy products made in china which just over 10 years ago decided to run student protesters over with tanks. Tianamen square anyone? i'm hearing screams for apologies... oh wait, i'm not hearing anything

Wrong, actually the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party - Zhao Ziyang, second in command of China at the time did apologize to the students for what the government had done, then he was forced to resign. Get your facts straight

Link

 

[PlatinumGold]

Wrong, actually the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party - Zhao Ziyang, second in command of China at the time did apologize to the students for what the government had done, then he was forced to resign. Get your facts straight

nice link.

oroooroo, hmmm didn't you say that you had a chinese grandmother?? truth is most of us take more concern regarding issues that impact our own cultures more than others, so i don't know too much about what happens in china, but wait i'm not chinese am i.

at least i'm taking action w/ regards to an issue that did and does have an impact on ME.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: ManSnake

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

oh it's not just taiwan. people from taiwan and hong kong have always given me the impression that they worship all things japanese. now increasingly more mainland chinese are turning too. i think it's all the anime and sushi

ya it frustrates me when i see Koreans in america go gooo goo gah gah over japanese cars. it's just a car.

me i've only owned american cars. never regretted it either.

i might buy german but i won't buy japanese until they officially acknowledge and apologise for what they did during WWII.

perhaps it should fustrate you that they buy products made in china which just over 10 years ago decided to run student protesters over with tanks. Tianamen square anyone? i'm hearing screams for apologies... oh wait, i'm not hearing anything

Wrong, actually the general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party - Zhao Ziyang, second in command of China at the time did apologize to the students for what the government had done, then he was forced to resign. Get your facts straight

Link

not exactly a government apology, more like more proof of the coverup, of the total denial. what do they teach children of tianamen in china? you got it...nothing.

basically i'm taking a stand on one issue. ya, i disagree w/ what the chinese did to the students at tianmen square. there are a whole lot of evils in the world i'm never gonna change. I have just chosen 1 particular issue. what exactly is your problem w/ that??

i'm saying your inconsistent. if you can't universalize your rules, theres something wrong. it starts to look like discrimination.

 

[PlatinumGold]

i'm saying your inconsistent. if you can't universalize your rules, theres something wrong. it starts to look like discrimination

did you know that no one person can do it all, DUHHH. all i gotta take care of is my little part of the universe. are you responsible for your little part?? either way, it's up to you.

why should i universalize my opinions. only a moron would try to universalize his own opinion.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

Remember you getting frustrated on how people stretched your argument about hatred?

I am in no way arguing that the Japanese government was not responsible. They are, however, often blamed for more than they deserve.

To me, you are oversimplifying this. Many historical issues are complicated and is only more clearly explained if acknowledged that they are complex. No war occurred for a single cause. No atrocities occurred for one source of power to blame.

I am not being stupid. I am merely trying to argue like a historian here.

Any ways, I am trying to argue that as much as the Japanese government should apologize, the Korean people should also loosen up their attitude at the same time. That is all I am arguing.

it's a lot easier to argue korean people should loosen up their attitude after more time has passed, BUT do you ever say to jews, loosen up, it wasn't all the germans fault, part of it was the collaborators. do you think that would fly??

your oversimplifying by trying to make something simple seem complicated.

the reason the japanese refuse to apologize is because it would reflect on their emporer. in the minds of the japanese the emporer is ultimately responsible for everything that happens to japan. so even they disagree w/ you. they would laugh at your assertion that collaborators have any responsibility at all.

Now why are you stretching my arguments to the Jews? In the European case, I argue that the Nazis should not be fully blamed (although they are undoubtedly responsible for the exterminations and all the horrible things they did). To some extent, the genocide was a product of the strong anti-Semitism that existed throughout Europe for years.

And yes, I think that the Koreans should loosen up their attitude. And by "attitude" I mean that they should stop making ridiculous arguments that Japan used to be a Korean colony and the strange historiography that developed in reaction to how much the Japanese "altered" Korea's past (which they did, but is often far too exaggerated).

I don't care if the Japanese disagree with me. And how are you so sure that the Japanese think that way? Or is that the image of the Japanese people in general for you? There you go again with oversimplification of the Japanese people and their way of thinking. Maybe you are correct and they may laugh at me, but yes, those collaborators are equally responsible. It is beyond my comprehension that you do not see this.

Imagine that a collaborator Korean police tortured and killed one of your ancestors. Would you only blame the Japanese government?

 

[0roo0roo]

an opinion isn't always valid. an arguement should be. you made an arguement against buying japanese things because of such and such. its a test of your reasoning.

example? ok. human rights, would they be universal? or only for say.. the chinese

it is plain inconsistent that you will do business with a government with current wrongs, but not with one with past wrongs.

in your heart you only justify buying chinese goods because they are like you, even if they are also wrong.

before you get huffy, i'm 100% chinese.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Now why are you stretching my arguments to the Jews? In the European case, I argue that the Nazis should not be fully blamed (although they are undoubtedly responsible for the exterminations and all the horrible things they did). To some extent, the genocide was a product of the strong anti-Semitism that existed throughout Europe for years.

And yes, I think that the Koreans should loosen up their attitude. And by "attitude" I mean that they should stop making ridiculous arguments that Japan used to be a Korean colony and the strange historiography that developed in reaction to how much the Japanese "altered" Korea's past (which they did, but is often far too exaggerated).

I don't care if the Japanese disagree with me. And how are you so sure that the Japanese think that way? Or is that the image of the Japanese people in general for you? There you go again with oversimplification of the Japanese people and their way of thinking. Maybe you are correct and they may laugh at me, but yes, those collaborators are equally responsible. It is beyond my comprehension that you do not see this.

Imagine that a collaborator Korean police tortured and killed one of your ancestors. Would you only blame the Japanese government?

ur argument is the kind you hear in court that drive me made. he didn't kill that girl, his parents who abused him and his uncle who beat him up and his girlfriend that left him, THEY are responsible.

face it, all of that means sh!t, ultimately it's the japanese govt that's responsible.

i mentioned nothing about japan being a korean colony or any such nonsense. the totality of japan / korean history is not the point here. the point is, the japanese were guilty of atrocities carried out in various parts of asia. they should acknowledge it and apologize for it. plain and simple. this is not an oversimplification.

 

[PlatinumGold]

you made an arguement against buying japanese things because of such and such.

where did i say that others shouldn't buy japanese. where did i even imply that?? what i said was that I CHOSE not to purchase japanese cars as a Protest. and I will continue to refuse to purchase them until they apologize.

human rights are universal, but it's not up to me to make sure they are enforced. if a cop only does his duty on his street, are you going to criticize him because he couldn't stop a burglury in another state??

you don't have any arguements. you haven't responded to a single arguement. all you've done is pick at certain statements. that isn't an argument. you haven't disproved anything i've said. you've just made random statements.

 

[ManSnake]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

you made an arguement against buying japanese things because of such and such.

where did i say that others shouldn't buy japanese. where did i even imply that?? what i said was that I CHOSE not to purchase japanese cars as a Protest. and I will continue to refuse to purchase them until they apologize.

human rights are universal, but it's not up to me to make sure they are enforced. if a cop only does his duty on his street, are you going to criticize him because he couldn't stop a burglury in another state??

you don't have any arguements. you haven't responded to a single arguement. all you've done is pick at certain statements. that isn't an argument. you haven't disproved anything i've said. you've just made random statements.

and may I add a lot of s

 

[joohang]

ur argument is the kind you hear in court that drive me made. he didn't kill that girl, his parents who abused him and his uncle who beat him up and his girlfriend that left him, THEY are responsible.

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

face it, all of that means sh!t, ultimately it's the japanese govt that's responsible.

No. Both the Japanese government and the collaborators are.

Now one may make an argument on whether the collaborators had no other choice but to torture their own people or they did it for the sake of their self-interests. I say it works both ways since that was a relatively easy way to survive during such times.

i mentioned nothing about japan being a korean colony or any such nonsense. the totality of japan / korean history is not the point here. the point is, the japanese were guilty of atrocities carried out in various parts of asia. they should acknowledge it and apologize for it. plain and simple. this is not an oversimplification.

This was not directed at you personally. It was directed towards the Koreans in general, and such views are very prevalent at the moment. And I do think that they matter because it portrays a very distorted image of Japan to the Koreans. Moreover, one of the common demands as part of the apology is to teach the Japanese kids with a new history textbook which does not censor out the atrocities of the Japanese. I think that it is reasonable that the Koreans do the same.

And let me reemphasize that I do not disagree that the Japanese government should not apologize.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

i'm saying your inconsistent. if you can't universalize your rules, theres something wrong. it starts to look like discrimination

did you know that no one person can do it all, DUHHH. all i gotta take care of is my little part of the universe. are you responsible for your little part?? either way, it's up to you.

why should i universalize my opinions. only a moron would try to universalize his own opinion.

oh u mean like treat others how you'd like to be treated? pretty universal, pretty moronic apparently if your ideas don't hold up, well, don't be so sure of yourself.

 

[LS20]

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold
Some people say i'm stupid for not buying japanese cars. I'm not stupid. I understand that I can't avoid all japanese products, I also understand that "Japanese" cars may not even be made in Japan BUT

the growth of the Japanese Auto industry was a significant economic landmark. SO I chose to not buy any Japanese cars as a SYMBOLIC gesture. Sure it doesn't mean anything except to me and the people that know me. I make it a point to tell all people around me that I chose not to buy japanese cars and WHY.

Just like i don't think we as americans should EVER forget 9-11, I also believe that as an Ethnic korean I should never forget what the Japanese did to the Korean (and other) peoples during WWII.

humankind is evil and has committed such acts at one time or another. therefore, i should start boycotting all man-made products. hmmm, roots and berries

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: ManSnake

Originally posted by: PlatinumGold

you made an arguement against buying japanese things because of such and such.

where did i say that others shouldn't buy japanese. where did i even imply that?? what i said was that I CHOSE not to purchase japanese cars as a Protest. and I will continue to refuse to purchase them until they apologize.

human rights are universal, but it's not up to me to make sure they are enforced. if a cop only does his duty on his street, are you going to criticize him because he couldn't stop a burglury in another state??

you don't have any arguements. you haven't responded to a single arguement. all you've done is pick at certain statements. that isn't an argument. you haven't disproved anything i've said. you've just made random statements.

and may I add a lot of s

you may if you wish. but his arguement is still weak. your cop arguement would only hold water if the cop had equal access to both states. you have equal access to japanese and chinese goods, yet choose to boycott one out of principle, and let the other pass through the same standard.

i don't care if your trying to tell others what to buy, i only went after your reasoning.

 

[Hoeboy]

Platinum Gold, don't get too frustrated. I think the American education system has failed to include this important part of WW2 when teaching students. I personally never really heard much about the atrocities that Japan committed until I learned it in college. And I would never have learned it if I didn't take this professor who made it his progative to "spread the word." This is considering I went through a magnet high school program and took many various AP history courses. It's really hard to rationalize the extent of what was done to people who might not know about the issue as you do. Once again we can blame our govt. because I'm pretty confident if the mass of American citizens are taught what happened in Asia during WW2, there might be a slight chance we can get an apology out of Japan.

 

[SherEPunjab]

and i certainly don't hold the young japanese accountable for their parents' sickness, as they had not even been born. but i do hold Japan accountable for not apologizing.

as for the money japan gives, i haven't heard about that at all, but who cares. no amount of money can make up for it. i see nothing wrong with asian nations taking the money and still expecting an apology.

That pretty much sums how i feel about England. I feel they need to apologize for the wrongdoings of their imperialistic past. They stole billions of dollars in resources from colonies such as India, but we have yet to hear a formal apology. In fact, they still keep the most prized jewel, the Kohinoor, which they stole from India, and which several south asian groups have asked to have returned. History has also been distorted. The British have propagated the stance that they left India because of the people's right to self determination, largely pushed by Gandhi. The truth, however, is that with WWII going on, and with Subash Chandra Bose allied with Hitler and the Japs (who were moving into N. India), the Brits were down right scared of having 4-500 million people revolt. Of course, this image of them retreating in fear wouldn't have left a good reputation for them, so they defaulted to the 'right of self determination, wer'e being moral' excuse.