What's the name of the human experimentations Japanese performed on Koreans and Chinese?

[quirky]

platinum gold, how old are you?

no offense, but you seem pretty immature to me, mainly becuase of you're deluded reasoning

dont forget that historaically koreans and japanese are the same ppl

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: quirky
platinum gold, how old are you?

no offense, but you seem pretty immature to me, mainly becuase of you're deluded reasoning

dont forget that historaically koreans and japanese are the same ppl

we're all the same people when it comes down to it, but that's irrelevant.

 

[gopunk]

0roo0roo -

i really don't care if you're chinese or not, it sounds like you're whitewashed anyways.

but i want to know, do you or do you not think that japan should have to apologize? i don't care about all these other "but these other countries did this..." and so on... this thread is about japan, and the heinous acts they committed against civilians in korea and china. yes or no, what is it?

 

[quirky]

Originally posted by: gopunk
0roo0roo -

i really don't care if you're chinese or not, it sounds like you're whitewashed anyways.

but i want to know, do you or do you not think that japan should have to apologize? i don't care about all these other "but these other countries did this..." and so on... this thread is about japan, and the heinous acts they committed against civilians in korea and china. yes or no, what is it?

of course they shoudl apologize but its deluded to go as far as to avoid all japanese products b/c they havent apologized. personally, i do think they will apologize eventually. just like how the church apologized for copernicus' house arrest in 1998

 

[0roo0roo]

i'm white washed because i don't agree? hah!


whatever.


anyways all countries should apologize for their sins. its not required, its just a nice gesture is all.

don't demand an apology if you still owe others one. that pretty much rules out all demanders for the time being. its their perogative to clense themselves first b4 demanding.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
i'm white washed because i don't agree? hah!

whatever.

no, you're whitewashed because you're too far removed to realize the gravity of what happened. because if you did, you would not take it as lightly as you do.

anyways all countries should apologize for their sins. its not required, its just a nice gesture is all.

don't demand an apology if you still owe others one. that pretty much rules out all demanders for the time being. its their perogative to clense themselves first b4 demanding.

i don't think japan should apologize to china though, i think they should apologize to the families who were affected. what do you think about that?

 

[0roo0roo]

no, you're whitewashed because you're too far removed to realize the gravity of what happened. because if you did, you would not take it as lightly as you do.

i take it you've delved further into this then i have. i've gone to a rememberence museum for the nanking massacure which is rather grisly, i've read a bit about it. i know a reasonable deal about the holocaust too. maybe you've done more.

and lightly? i havn't cracked a joke in this thread. its your perception, so deal with it.

i don't think japan should apologize to china though, i think they should apologize to the families who were affected. what do you think about that?

i think the problem is the same, just worded differently.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo

no, you're whitewashed because you're too far removed to realize the gravity of what happened. because if you did, you would not take it as lightly as you do.

i take it you've delved further into this then i have. i've gone to a rememberence museum for the nanking massacure which is rather grisly, i've read a bit about it. i know a reasonable deal about the holocaust too. maybe you've done more.

i don't mean going to museums or reading books. i mean really *understanding* what went on. hearing your relatives talk about what happened and emotionally connecting with them. just imagine what it would be like to go through such a horrible thing. or to have your family members go through it. your little sister gets gang raped, then when she gets pregnant they cut her open and laugh.

and lightly? i havn't cracked a joke in this thread. its your perception, so deal with it.

i never said you cracked a joke, did i?

and just as an aside, you are truly an idiot if you think other people's perceptions of you are their own problems, when everybody has the same perception of you. there is nothing for them to deal with really, people will not change their perceptions of you. you will be treated by others as you are perceived, not as how you think you ought to be perceived as.

i don't think japan should apologize to china though, i think they should apologize to the families who were affected. what do you think about that?

i think the problem is the same, just worded differently.

so tell me, what war time atrocities has my family committed? if they've committed none, they get to demand an apology, right?

 

[0roo0roo]

i don't mean going to museums or reading books. i mean really *understanding* what went on. hearing your relatives talk about what happened and emotionally connecting with them. just imagine what it would be like to go through such a horrible thing. or to have your family members go through it. your little sister gets gang raped, then when she gets pregnant they cut her open and laugh.

i didn't realize you were so smart that you could accurately judge another persons ability to empathize over a forum post. i'm unfeeling and have no empathic cultural link to fulfill me, that must be it, whatever makes you feel superior.

in other words, stop patronizing me.

i have grand parents, i heard enough.

what they say can't match pictures of evicerated people, or videos of death camps can they? not really

as for perception, we focused on perception only because certain posters focused on me the person instead of points in their arguement. defend your point, not ask me how old i am. i believe its called ad hominem.

so tell me, what war time atrocities has my family committed? if they've committed none, they get to demand an apology, right?

perhaps they could demand it from the specific attackers then. if your going to get down to a individual level instead of a national level. once you generally accuse the country again u open the same can of worms as before.

 

[gopunk]

i didn't realize you were so smart that you could accurately judge another persons ability to empathize over a forum post. i'm unfeeling and have no empathic cultural link to fulfill me, that must be it, whatever makes you feel superior.

in other words, stop patronizing me.

i wasn' judging your ability to empathize... no, i was judging whether or not you actually have empathized in regards to this matter. you don't have to be smart for that, just human. and who's patronizing you? wasn't me.

i have grand parents, i heard enough.

doesn't seem like it.

as for perception, we focused on perception only because certain posters focused on me the person instead of points in their arguement. defend your point, not ask me how old i am. i believe its called ad hominem.

i'm not really interested in why that aside was brought up.. fact remains, people's perceptions of you are something for you to deal with, not them. they're not the ones who will be treated in accordance to peoples' perception of you.

so tell me, what war time atrocities has my family committed? if they've committed none, they get to demand an apology, right?

perhaps they could demand it from the specific attackers then. if your going to get down to a individual level instead of a national level. once you generally accuse the country again u open the same can of worms as before.

actually, these atrocities were committed with orders from the government. therefore, it should be the country to apologize, shouldn't it?

 

[0roo0roo]

word games. joy.

 

[joohang]

Originally posted by: quirky
platinum gold, how old are you?

no offense, but you seem pretty immature to me, mainly becuase of you're deluded reasoning

dont forget that historaically koreans and japanese are the same ppl

Historically, one can quite easily distinguish the "Korean" culture from the "Japanese" culture, if one defines ethnic boundaries through culture. Biologically, I don't think that anybody can make solid claims.

Unless you mean to say that all humans are the same, I have to disagree that the Koreans and the Japanese are the same people. There have been studies that many (as much as 50%) of the settlers in Japan around the 6th century were migrants from the Korean peninsula. Northeastern Japanese peoples are quite distinctive from the "southern" Japanese. The Okinawans were not absorbed into Japan until the 19th century and maintained a loosely-centralized, commerce-oriented kingdom for centuries. In Korea, the early northern peninsula and southern Manchurian culture was quite different in terms of daily lifestyles, language, burial sites, etc from the southern peninsular culture.

So there lived many different peoples in the Korean peninsula and the Japanese islands, who continued to develop their own distinct culture while mingling with their neighbours and absorbing other elements through millennia of human and cultural migrations. We now collectively call label them as either "Korean" or "Japanese".

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
word games. joy.

care to elaborate? or is that just what you say when your argument breaks down?

0roo0roo, i don't know you well enough to really judge you, but it would seem that you have something against demands for a japanese apology for reasons other than consistency (like you say in your posts). your arguments seem constucted around your opinion, instead of the other way around.

i'll be honest.. the reason you see me harping about this, and not atrocities committed in kosovo or something, is because i'm chinese, and my family was affected by this. however, i don't think i would have anything against victims elsewhere from demanding apologies.

 

[dawheat]

as a few others have brought up- my biggest problem is not the lack of a Japanese apology, but the revisionist history being taught in Japanese schools- that these atrocities were never committed by their people just 50 years ago.

Teaching youth about the Houlocast hopefully ensures that it will never happen again. Pretending atrocities never occured and raising generations unaware of it may bring about the inevidable human reaction of repeating mistakes. And before we begin to belive that people TODAY could never commit such atrocities- just look to Yugoslavia half a decade ago, the Taliban govt in Afganastan, and so on. Humans will always remain humans and education is our best defense.

 

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: dawheat
as a few others have brought up- my biggest problem is not the lack of a Japanese apology, but the revisionist history being taught in Japanese schools- that these atrocities were never committed by their people just 50 years ago.

Teaching youth about the Houlocast hopefully ensures that it will never happen again. Pretending atrocities never occured and raising generations unaware of it may bring about the inevidable human reaction of repeating mistakes. And before we begin to belive that people TODAY could never commit such atrocities- just look to Yugoslavia half a decade ago, the Taliban govt in Afganastan, and so on. Humans will always remain humans and education is our best defense.

i totally agree with that, and on more than one level.

i think educated people are less likely to commit acts of brutality, whether it be against fellow humans or animals. obviously there are educated bastards out there, but i think education helps in getting people to empathize.

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
word games. joy.

care to elaborate? or is that just what you say when your argument breaks down?

0roo0roo, i don't know you well enough to really judge you, but it would seem that you have something against demands for a japanese apology for reasons other than consistency (like you say in your posts). your arguments seem constucted around your opinion, instead of the other way around.

i'll be honest.. the reason you see me harping about this, and not atrocities committed in kosovo or something, is because i'm chinese, and my family was affected by this. however, i don't think i would have anything against victims elsewhere from demanding apologies.

what i mean was that the arguement did break down. its broken down to bickering between definitions of state and individuals and where the lines blur. i don't think that can be resolved, it ends up as an endless dance. it becomes a word game, or a game of definitions.

 

[gopunk]

what i mean was that the arguement did break down. its broken down to bickering between definitions of state and individuals and where the lines blur. i don't think that can be resolved, it ends up as an endless dance. it becomes a word game, or a game of definitions.

no, it really hasn't. you said that a party should not demand an apology if they owe others one. fair enough, i can live with that. so the government of china should not demand an apology from the government of japan... i'm assuming that's what you were getting at here. so my question to you is, why can't my family demand an apology from the government of japan? my family has not committed any war crimes. this is not semantics, the line between government and family is pretty clear.

 

[GasX]

Frankly this debate has growen tiresome to me. I am still never going to meet my uncle and the Japanese can go eff themselves.

 

[J5im8yo]

There is a certain degree of backwardness to things done when one doesn't know the effect of it. When talking about Biological warfare 50-70 years ago I believe not too many people know what the result will be. As to the Europeans bringing smallpox (+others) to the new world killing 80% of the total Indian Population, wasn't that harsh enough? The thing here is they know what the effect will be and believe it or not... this is because they've experienced with it themselves several breakouts of plaque from 1300-1500 caused dramatic decline in population of europe.

For everyone who was discussing this in this thread I was wondering how many of you are actually Chinese, Korean, and Japanese descedants? I am a chinese descendants and the two generations before me HATED the Japanese. Esp my grandparents, they've seen their relatives, family destroyed, and homeland burned by the Japanese. As for my parents they've lived in peace for all of their lives but this strong hatred has carried on to them but somewhat lesser than what the grandparents possed. Now for me I lived in America for the past 7 years and I have Japanese friends and yea well girlfriend? I was thinking its simply not my fault what they did and the fact that I only have feeling for Japanese girls created a problem. Now, I really just hope they can stand out and apologize and all will be less complicated and easier to compensate. I mean as everyone thought and I think. they really should apologize just as the German and many others did.

Isn't it kinda sad what cime one generation committed the next and next and even next generation has to carry the burden?

By the way I've never asked anyone this but there is a little story that many people in China know about so do everyone in my family history. During the reign of a very bad King I cannot recall the dynasty in Chinese history his name in Chinese is Chin Sei Huan (just pronouciation) he was lured by the idea that if he bring 500 men and 500 women to an island off the coast of China and kill them all with certain procedure and medication he can create a medicine in which will aid him in living forever. This may sound kinda funny but for something happend thousands of years ago its not. They took a ship and landed in present day Japan theyguy in charge didn't have the heart to kill all of them and decided to colonize it. Now this sounds interesting and I thought it make sense the only 3 major races I know that look like chinese and have extremely similiar culture as the Chinese is Japanese and Korean. =)

 

[SnapIT]

Originally posted by: Desslok
Just rememeber all the cruel things the Japanese did the next time they start complaining about the two A-bombs being dropped on them.

1.) Bataan(sp) Death march
2.) The rape of Nanking
3.) Unit 731

LMAO, yeah, just like it is okey to kill future generations of hundreds of thousands of people because SOME were guilty... people are still paying the price...

I heard about this killer in New york, let's kill everyone in new york and if some survive, then let's maime them, and their children, and their grandchildren...

Nobody says they weren't wrong, but dropping the bombs were just to see how they worked, an experiment done on humans, which makes the US NO better...

 

[wizzz]

Originally posted by: J5im8yo
By the way I've never asked anyone this but there is a little story that many people in China know about so do everyone in my family history. During the reign of a very bad King I cannot recall the dynasty in Chinese history his name in Chinese is Chin Sei Huan (just pronouciation) he was lured by the idea that if he bring 500 men and 500 women to an island off the coast of China and kill them all with certain procedure and medication he can create a medicine in which will aid him in living forever. This may sound kinda funny but for something happend thousands of years ago its not. They took a ship and landed in present day Japan theyguy in charge didn't have the heart to kill all of them and decided to colonize it. Now this sounds interesting and I thought it make sense the only 3 major races I know that look like chinese and have extremely similiar culture as the Chinese is Japanese and Korean. =)

I fell off my chair laughing at your post!!!

"3 major races"??? WOW! I did not know that chineses, korean, japanese were separate RACES!!!!!
What about the Mongolians, Tibetans, Thai, Vietnamese, etc.

And I guess you don't think Australian, Canadians, Americans, English, French, Germans, etc. do not look similar both in appearances and culture.


BTW, what you said about the "story" is just that. A story.
In other words, it's hogwash.
A literature published by a communist state to lift up the spirits of the people.

It's amazing how the chinese people want to desparately try to prove they are racially "superior"
than any other race.
Just look at China right now with Yao Ming playing in NBA. I heard there's an overpowering feeling
among many chinese people that they are racially superior than americans.

 

[monckywrench]

The atomic bombs were not dropped as an "experiment", though measuring their effects was sensible as with any weapon. The aspect of using them to remind Stalin that we don't play does not negate operational reasons to use them to compel Japan to submit. Politically correct revisionist thinking conveniently decides to ignore the vast casulaties we would incur in a land invasion, which would have dwarfed those at Iwo and Saipan. Destruction exceeding the "firebreak distinction" had already happened in incendiary raids, and a nuclear device was not so remarkable when measured against the prevailing standard of destruction by air or lans action throughout the war. What WAS unique is doing it with single aircraft instead of several hundred or more. The fascination in recent years with Hiroshima and Nagasaki is interesting in that it ignores the historical context in which the weapons were used. Cities were fair game in total war because total war is the result of combined efforts of the population (who build the war machine and are its logistic base) and the military who carry out the mission. Total War isn't some duel fought between men in tights. ..
Where wars are more limited to a contest fought by armies with stocks on hand instead of being the result of national consensus and concerted effort destroying the infrastructure and de-housing the war workers/population is against custom and to some extent, law.
"Apologies" or other gestures of acknowledgement of past actions by nations are not so much about acceptance of guilt (after all, non-participants aren't guilty) as much as an acknowledgement of fact. That acknowledgement by Germany has helped keep their proto-Fascist groups in check and kept an honest view of history in the public eye.
Japan by contrast has effectively effaced public memory of the Imperial Armys atrocities in WWII and will never confront the aspect of theiir national psyche that led to them. Saving "face" by denial has been accomplished and as the witnesses die of old age the game will shortly end.

 

[waggy]

Amazing. I never knew of the experiments the Japanese performed. We did NOT go over it in high school or college. Of course we learned at what the Germans did in WW2.

Should Japan apologize? Yes they should.

Should the US apologize for slavery? Yes. Will they? No. if they do the repartitions people will then use that to force the government to give blacks here money. (another debate another time)

 

[Doggiedog]

I got to this thread a little late but here is what I have to add:

I'm of Japanese descent but lived here in the US practically all my life. I've lived and worked in Japan. I even taught JHS in Japan for 2 years. I am familiar with the history of Unit 731 and horrified at what happened.

As a former teacher in Japan I can tell you they do teach what happened in Asia during WW2. I made sure I read the history textbooks they use just to see. They do talk about Nanking and Korea and the attrocities committed. The passages may not be long but they are there in the textbooks. There was a controversy a couple years ago about whitewashing the WW2 attrocities but that was something extraordinary. The government has something like 50 different history textbooks approved for use in public schools and one small rightwing school district decided to use one that was whitewashed. But because one district used the book, there was an uproar in China and Korea over whitewashing. In the US, it would be similar to some school district using a creationist science book rather than a book that teaches evolution. They are abberations.

I do sympathize to all those who want apologies from Japan though. The Japanese government is ruled by many people from the WW2 generation and is heavily influenced by nationalistic groups. Even when there are Prime Ministers that are willing apologize, pressure from these people and groups tend to overrule their actions. If you are in Tokyo, these nationalists are a very common site. They travel around in big buses with loudspeakers on top screaming nationalistic propaganda. The average Japanese person thinks they are nuts though. I personally think Asia won't get an apology until the last WW2 gen politician dies and a new younger generation of politicians moves in.

War is a bad time. I've read lots of stuff on the cruel things people do to each other during war and conquest. The Japanese aren't alone in commiting these atrocities. After WW2, the Soviets killed millions of Japanese too and not so nicely either.

If you are going to judge the Japanese, I think you should at least separate government policy from its people. In the older generation, I know there are a lot of people that express regret for what the country did to its neighbors. And for the younger generation, I don't think you can blame them just because they are born Japanese.

You should forgive but never forget.

 

[Dexion]

Yup, cause we know all the 20 and 30 year old hard working Japanse today were the same ones that did this over 50 years ago. It's people like you that cause the hatred to continue because you can't look beyond the past.

I personally don't fully agree with the above statement. The past is something to accept and move on from, learn from by experience and a constant reminder to guide you for the future. What Japan has done was indeed horrific and shocking. What their biggest crime is the lack of acknowledgement by completely denying the past of all their crimes. Most of the Japanese history books, education material and even media LACK ANY of the above mentioned "shameful" disasters. Their current generation is completely oblivious to them. How can this be acceptable?