What's up with Nvidia?

[Qbah]

I never said you lied... I said you were spreading FUD, and you continue to do so.

Where are you getting this notion from that EOL = no support? The fact that any company can drop support for an EOL product line is true, but there is absolutely no reason to assume or even speculate that NVIDIA would drop support for the GTX 200 series anytime soon.

Both NVIDIA and ATI have a pretty solid track record of supporting their video cards for quite some time. IMO, they are supported well past their useful lifespan for gaming, and non-gaming applications generally don't need the latest drivers anyway.

I know Hopefully people won't take my words at face value as they weren't meant to be taken like that. I know nVidia cares about their customers and nothing of the above will happen.

I think my overdrawing and huge exaggeration didn't go through over the wire very well... What I was mostly aiming at is to take note of my comment about ATi's success with the HD5xxx series and pretty much ignore the tidbit about nVidia (was kinda "joking" here and wasn't completely serious) - sorry if it did sound extremely serious.

 

[SlowSpyder]

There is still a lack of availability. It's an incredibly soft launch.

Cards from several vendors were available on the day of launch. Cards continue to trickle in, as I said, 5850's are available at Newegg now.

Thousands of 5970's at launch: http://vr-zone.com/articles/ati-radeon-hd-5970-roundup/8073.html?doc=8073

Thousands of cards on the day of the launch is not a soft launch.

They came out after the GT200 and were slower.

You have an extremely loose definition of success.

C'mon now... the 48xx cards launched, what was it, a week after the GT2xx?

The 4850 was faster than the $300 9800GTX and cost much less. The 4850 completely shoke up it's price point and even cards that cost $100 more. In a few cases the $199 4850 was even faster than the $450 GTX260. The 4850 was fast enough that Nvidia had to create a new 9800GTX card, and drop it's price while making the part faster, to compete. Pretty impressive.

The 4870 was pretty much the same story. It was much faster than Nvidia's cards at it's price point. The $299 4870 generally convincingly beat the GTX260 192. The 4870 was fast enough that Nvidia hand to change the specs of the card and slash it's price to compete.

The $650 GTX280 even lost in benches to the 4870 at times. Overall Nvidia certainly had the faster part, but the 4870 was fast enough that Nvidia had to cut the price of the GTX280 by $300! Obviously these were successful and competitive parts.

 

[bryanW1995]

This is nothing but FUD.

EOL doesn't mean support is withdrawn, just that they stop manufacturing the hardware. NVIDIA still supports the 6-series (from 2004) on Windows 7 in the latest drivers, and the 6-series has been EOL for a long time now.

To put this into perspective... Everything older than the Radeon HD 2000 (came out in 2007) is not officially supported on Win 7 by ATI.



http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/windows/Legacy/Pages/radeonaiw_vista64.aspx

yes, but getting something to work on a new OS and actively improving the performance of it are two completely different things. We all know how this game works: the minute gt300 launches all optimizations for gt200 or lower cards will cease. 5xxx still has a lot of optimizations in its future, making it an even better buy going forward.

 

[Qbah]

(...)
C'mon now... the 48xx cards launched, what was it, a week after the GT2xx?

The 4850 was faster than the $300 9800GTX and cost much less. The 4850 completely shoke up it's price point and even cards that cost $100 more. In a few cases the $199 4850 was even faster than the $450 GTX260. The 4850 was fast enough that Nvidia had to create a new 9800GTX card, and drop it's price while making the part faster, to compete. Pretty impressive.

The 4870 was pretty much the same story. It was much faster than Nvidia's cards at it's price point. The $299 4870 generally convincingly beat the GTX260 192. The 4870 was fast enough that Nvidia hand to change the specs of the card and slash it's price to compete.

The $650 GTX280 even lost in benches to the 4870 at times. Overall Nvidia certainly had the faster part, but the 4870 was fast enough that Nvidia had to cut the price of the GTX280 by $300! Obviously these were successful and competitive parts.

Just to back that up with dates (from my previous post on last page):

HD4850 June 19 2008
HD4870 June 25 2008
HD4870x2 August 12 2008

GTX260 June 26 2008
GTX280 June 17 2008
GTX295 January 8 2009

I remember the HD4850s were actually sold before the launch date which made quite a commotion...

 

[Wreckage]

Cards from several vendors were available on the day of launch. Cards continue to trickle in, as I said, 5850's are available at Newegg now.

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17859
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17685

C'mon now... the 48xx cards launched, what was it, a week after the GT2xx?

And was slower. Thank you for making my point. It also failed to capture significant market share. In fact at one point this year NVIDIA had close to 70% of the video card market.

The 4850 was faster than the $300 9800GTX and cost much less.

Hurray for beating last gen, it got it's butt handed to it by the GTX260 which was the current gen. I won't deny that ATI most likely sold their cards at a loss to compete. But again that's not success.

 

[nitromullet]

yes, but getting something to work on a new OS and actively improving the performance of it are two completely different things. We all know how this game works: the minute gt300 launches all optimizations for gt200 or lower cards will cease. 5xxx still has a lot of optimizations in its future, making it an even better buy going forward.

NV probably does focus more on providing the most improvements to their newest generation, but then again I'm pretty sure it works the same way at ATI.

 

[Qbah]

The HD5870 is available where I live.

The HD48xx weren't slower, they were in fact faster. Price dictates market segments not what you want to believe. AMD did not grab half the market though as nVidia already captured people's minds with the 8-series. It takes more than better technology to make people buy your products. A proper campaign needs to follow. nVidia was already doing that for the past what? 2 years? Takes more than one launch when you have competition to grow.

And let's just add that right now AMD has the fastest cards on the market and they are available - I can order one and get it next week (as it's weekend now). If that doesn't mean available, I don't know what does. And this will be fact for the forseeable future with no official statements from nVidia and rumors going from early to late Q1 next year for Fermi-based products.

 

[Nemesis 1]

To make a long story short, I think Fermi is Nvidia's next NV30.

Yep and it will likely take A4 stepping befor we see a demo. Maybe may well see Ferma.

In the mean time its a double win for ATI as NV fanbois like wrekage are driving NV costumers away.

 

[Voo]

Hurray for beating last gen, it got it's butt handed to it by the GTX260 which was the current gen. I won't deny that ATI most likely sold their cards at a loss to compete. But again that's not success.

Yeah because we all care about that stuff and not about performance/price where the 48xx thrashed the GT200 chips.
I know it's easy to forget, but the 300$ 4870 performed as well as the 400$ gtx260 - just go looking for the reviews back then..

I think most people agree that while Nvidia had the better chip with the 8 series, ATI "won" with their 48xx cards. Let's see what happens with GT300 and the 58xx cards - right now nobody can say anything about that..

 

[Keysplayr]

TSMC 40nm issues.
New Nvidia architecture
Buy what you want. Either congratulate yourself in January for buying ATI now (January seems to be the rumoured ETA going around) and the 58xx beats out GF100, or be remorseful that you didn't wait if GF100 lays waste to 58xx. If you buy now, you have a 100% chance to be either one of these. If you wait, and see what GF100 is in comparison to 58xx, you can see for yourself what unfolds and pick then. Your chances of being remorseful with your purchase are eliminated.
If you "need" a card now, that is a different story. Needs and wants are different animals.

 

[ronnn]

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17859
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17685


And was slower. Thank you for making my point. It also failed to capture significant market share. In fact at one point this year NVIDIA had close to 70% of the video card market.



Hurray for beating last gen, it got it's butt handed to it by the GTX260 which was the current gen. I won't deny that ATI most likely sold their cards at a loss to compete. But again that's not success.

This is so last year! Must be tough for the green team.......... Don't buy just wait is not a huge money maker, but I am sure all those servers and medical imaging devices will eventually make up for the loss in the gamer market.

 

[SlowSpyder]

http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17859
http://techreport.com/discussions.x/17685

I never said that the parts were plentiful right now. I said that the launch was indeed a hard launch. You continue to call it a soft launch when it clearly was not. I don't think anyone is arguing that the 58xx/59xx are not hard to find. But AMD launched with 'thousands' of $600 cards and sold all of them on launch day. Even if production improves and more parts hit the market I wouldn't be suprised if they still sell out until they get competition from Nvidia.

And was slower. Thank you for making my point. It also failed to capture significant market share. In fact at one point this year NVIDIA had close to 70% of the video card market.

You seem to think the only metric to measure a successful launch is who has the overall fastest part. AMD won by a very large margin at all their price points at launch, and in the case of the 4870, it managed to win compared to parts that cost 50% more from Nvidia. The point was that these were successful launches, AMD got themselves back into the enthusiast market after the 2900 and 3870.

As far as market share: http://www.elitebastards.com/index....ch&catid=27:hardware-press-releases&Itemid=34

Hurray for beating last gen, it got it's butt handed to it by the GTX260 which was the current gen. I won't deny that ATI most likely sold their cards at a loss to compete. But again that's not success.

You are right... Nvidia's $450 part was faster than AMD's $199 part. What part did Nvidia have that was 'current gen' after the GTX2x0 launch in the $300 price range? Nvidia had nothing but last gen, what should AMD competed with at $199 or $299? It's not like Nvidia created a GTX240... instead they used an older gen part at that price point. AMD's $199 part wiped the floor with Nvidia's $300 part to the point that Nvidia had to create a new 9800 part to compete. AMD's $299 part beat Nvidia's $449 part well enough that Nvidia decided to change the specs of the part.

 

[Wreckage]

I know it's easy to forget, but the 300$ 4870 performed as well as the 400$ gtx260 - just go looking for the reviews back then..

Hmm. My GTX260 cost $200. :whiste:

 

[dguy6789]

Hmm. My GTX260 cost $200. :whiste:

You do realize that the GTX 280 failed to take the performance crown from the gen before it right?

 

[SlowSpyder]

Hmm. My GTX260 cost $200. :whiste:

You should thank AMD for that.

But the fact is your card launched at $450. AMD's much cheaper part beat it well enough that Nvidia had to improve the specs and drop the price substantially to compete.

 

[dguy6789]

The vast majority of reviews gave the 4870 512MB the nod over the GTX 260, and they give the 4870 1GB the nod over the GTX 260 Core 216. Even if they were the same price, the Radeons still beat it, but the Radeons were always cheaper.

 

[Wreckage]

The vast majority of reviews gave the 4870 512MB the nod over the GTX 260, and they give the 4870 1GB the nod over the GTX 260 Core 216. Even if they were the same price, the Radeons still beat it, but the Radeons were always cheaper.

You must not have read very many reviews. Most that I read gave the nod to the 260 and when I bought mine it was cheaper than a 4870.

 

[ZimZum]

TSMC 40nm issues.
New Nvidia architecture
Buy what you want. Either congratulate yourself in January for buying ATI now (January seems to be the rumoured ETA going around) and the 58xx beats out GF100, or be remorseful that you didn't wait if GF100 lays waste to 58xx. If you buy now, you have a 100% chance to be either one of these. If you wait, and see what GF100 is in comparison to 58xx, you can see for yourself what unfolds and pick then. Your chances of being remorseful with your purchase are eliminated.
If you "need" a card now, that is a different story. Needs and wants are different animals.

January for retail availability seems far fetched. Feb/march seems more likely. And even then we may be looking at 58xx all over again (limited supply, price gouging from retailers).

 

[Keysplayr]

January for retail availability seems far fetched. Feb/march seems more likely. And even then we may be looking at 58xx all over again (limited supply, price gouging from retailers).

Based on what? A feeling? An educated guess? Do you know something we do not?
Ok, you can be the pessimist, and I'll be the optimist. January availability in quantity. Not just the top end card either, but a whole range of "Fermi" based GPUs. And, we may be looking at G80 all over again. Good supply and competitive price/performance.

Hey, you can be just as right, or wrong, as I am.

 

[ZimZum]

Based on what? A feeling? An educated guess? Do you know something we do not?
Ok, you can be the pessimist, and I'll be the optimist. January availability in quantity. Not just the top end card either, but a whole range of "Fermi" based GPUs. And, we may be looking at G80 all over again. Good supply and competitive price/performance.

Hey, you can be just as right, or wrong, as I am.

Based on the fact that Fermi A2 silicon just taped out this month?

 

[mruffin75]

It's a shame Keys that you're part of the Nvidia Focus Group, which pretty much means you need to be optomistic about Fermi and not critical

But even so, it may be great, it may not. We'll all have to see...

But I'm not expecting it to be anything great..it may be "good enough", but I doubt it'll be amazing (yes, an uneducated guess). My reason for thinking that is mostly from ATI!
They also hyped up the long-awaited R600, which turned out to be not-so-great..
Nvidia doesn't really have a choice but to say what they are saying now... it's not like they'd admit to their card sucking..

 

[Wreckage]

Based on the fact that Fermi A2 silicon just taped out this month?

How is that a fact?

Do you work for NVIDIA or TSMC?

 

[T2k]

I have a friend that is Fermi this Fermi that... well I'm sure it will be all that, nVidia has a damn good track record

Ehh? Like the Dustbuster FX? Or the 3-4 times renamed and rebranded 8000-series aka 9800-series aka GTS240 etc?

Praising Nvidia's track record is probably the weirdest case of living in an alternative reality - a shrink could write a master thesis about it...

 

[T2k]

Based on what? A feeling? An educated guess? Do you know something we do not?

And do you something we don't?

Ok, you can be the pessimist, and I'll be the optimist. January availability in quantity. Not just the top end card either, but a whole range of "Fermi" based GPUs. And, we may be looking at G80 all over again. Good supply and competitive price/performance.

Hey, you can be just as right, or wrong, as I am.

"There are no American infidels in Baghdad. Never!"
"My feelings - as usual - we will slaughter them all"
"Our initial assessment is that they will all die"

Why do your posts always remind me to those of the Iraqi Information Minister...?

 

[T2k]

BTW if someone wants to hurt Nvidia just buy their cards - they are writing checks for their partners to keep their prices afloat.