What's wrong with CREATIVE?

Jan 24, 2005
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There are alot of negative vibes out there about CREATIVE LABS as a company. I am posting this to try to understand where those attitudes are coming from. They seem to make very good products, at least it is generally held that there are no sound cards which are competative with SOUNDBLASTER when it comes to gaming. So, why the anti-creative undertones?
 

the wombat

Member
Mar 13, 2005
194
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0
Are we talking about negativity towards their sound cards? Because I've heard nothing but great things about their mp3 players.
 
Jan 24, 2005
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Yes, I think so. It seems that many people are saying "I hate creative" when they post on this and other forums with respect to creative's sound cards. I get the feeling this is a reaction to creative's market dominace. I was just wondering if there are any legit beefs about their hardware/drivers/support per say.
 
S

SlitheryDee

I wasn't aware of any anti-creativism.

If there is I suppose it's because they are more successful than other computer audio companies. Some people automatically seem to be against the larger companies.

You can definitely see this in AMD versus Intel/Linux versus Microsoft/Mac versus PC debates.
 
Jan 24, 2005
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Just to get it out in th open, I have noticed that they do not make their drivers available for download, as brought up in another post. Ignoring this, they seem to make good products to this non-techie/non-audiophile. So, I am wondering what people have against creative.
 

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,453
2
81
Originally posted by: SlitheryDee
I wasn't aware of any anti-creativism.

Well, there is oner on P&N. Oh sorry, that's anit-creationism.

But creative drivers are the reason I don't like them. Too many installation nightmares, particularly with the old SB Live.
 
Jan 24, 2005
168
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Hey Daveshel, are we talking about past driver problems or current ones?

As I already stated, I am annoyed with needing their CD to get the drivers, but are the drivers themselves poor?
 

Romir

Member
Jun 5, 2005
50
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0
Buying and killing off the better Aureal EAX format somewhat annoyed me. Continually selling a slightly newer rehashed version of old SB Live! all these years just reeks of stagnation. That being said, I'll probably buy a their new XiFi card with the 25% off settlement coupon just to keep getting the best gaming FPS.
 

esun

Platinum Member
Nov 12, 2001
2,214
0
0
For me, the #1 reason is because of the whole drivers thing. Always need my driver CD for my sound card (EMU 0404, Creative's professional line) while I don't need a driver CD for anything else in my system.
 

kazeakuma

Golden Member
Feb 13, 2001
1,218
0
0
Drivers mostly. I still find it hard to swallow that an Audigy install can swallow 300mb of hard drive space. That's just plain ridiculous. 99% of my applications are smaller. And as others have mentioned you cannot download the drivers.... are we in 1994? NO.

And the price is a little over the top here too. A sound card shouldn't cost more than half a computer.
 

ViRGE

Elite Member, Moderator Emeritus
Oct 9, 1999
31,516
167
106
The short list:

1) They (ab)used legal manoeuvres based on false claims to drive Aureal(A3D) out of business at the turn of the century, knowing that Aureal didn't have the cash reserves to fight a protracted legal battle and continue to design sound technology. They then turned around and bought out Aureal's superior tech.

1b) They also bought out Sensaura's tech(which the nForce APU was based on). Both of these actions are anti-competitive.

2) They patented the Carmack's Reverse technique for real-time lighting(created by id's John Carmack for the D3 engine), then used that patent to force id to integrate EAX technology in to the D3 engine(D3 had a custom sound engine), or else face a lawsuit over the patent.

3) They have stayed stagnant in the sound card market for years now, dragging on the same architecture since 1997(where the Live was released, even the current Audigy 4 is derived from the Live). Only now, 8 years later are they releasing a new sound card(the X-fi), and frankly we don't have enough info to make sure if it's not another rehash of some sort.

3b) They artificially end support of older sound cards in spite of the fact that they are the same in order to apparently drive the sale of new cards. Creative has stopped releasing drivers for the A1 even though it's exactly like the A2/A2ZS/A4, down to the point where the A2 drivers install and work just fine on the A1(Creative couldn't even be bothered to change the device ID).
 
S

SlitheryDee

Originally posted by: ViRGE
The short list:

1) They (ab)used legal manoeuvres based on false claims to drive Aureal(A3D) out of business at the turn of the century, knowing that Aureal didn't have the cash reserves to fight a protracted legal battle and continue to design sound technology. They then turned around and bought out Aureal's superior tech.

1b) They also bought out Sensaura's tech(which the nForce APU was based on). Both of these actions are anti-competitive.

2) They patented the Carmack's Reverse technique for real-time lighting(created by id's John Carmack for the D3 engine), then used that patent to force id to integrate EAX technology in to the D3 engine(D3 had a custom sound engine), or else face a lawsuit over the patent.

3) They have stayed stagnant in the sound card market for years now, dragging on the same architecture since 1997(where the Live was released, even the current Audigy 4 is derived from the Live). Only now, 8 years later are they releasing a new sound card(the X-fi), and frankly we don't have enough info to make sure if it's not another rehash of some sort.

3b) They artificially end support of older sound cards in spite of the fact that they are the same in order to apparently drive the sale of new cards. Creative has stopped releasing drivers for the A1 even though it's exactly like the A2/A2ZS/A4, down to the point where the A2 drivers install and work just fine on the A1(Creative couldn't even be bothered to change the device ID).


Wow, I certainly didn't know all of that.
 

cryptonomicon

Senior member
Oct 20, 2004
467
0
0
Originally posted by: concernedsophist
Yes, I think so. It seems that many people are saying "I hate creative" when they post on this and other forums with respect to creative's sound cards. I get the feeling this is a reaction to creative's market dominace. I was just wondering if there are any legit beefs about their hardware/drivers/support per say.

yes there are legit beefs. there have been IRQ/chipset incompatability horrors in the past (particularly with VIA). also the creative card tools can be buggy, their surround mixer is poorly coded in my opinion, it can hang and cause 100% cpu usage.

overall creative is good though. their cards are reasonably priced and are compatable in every system i have used AFTER i figured out how to tweak them. usally it involves moving the card to a different PCI slot, or adjusting the hardware acceleration feature.
 

Brian48

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
3,410
0
0
Originally posted by: ViRGE
The short list:

1) They (ab)used legal manoeuvres based on false claims to drive Aureal(A3D) out of business at the turn of the century, knowing that Aureal didn't have the cash reserves to fight a protracted legal battle and continue to design sound technology. They then turned around and bought out Aureal's superior tech.

This is absolute bullsh*t perpetuated by all anti-Creative twits who completely ignore the facts of Aureal's demise.

1b) They also bought out Sensaura's tech(which the nForce APU was based on). Both of these actions are anti-competitive.

Sensaura put itself up for sale. The price was dirtcheap (only 6+ million). Nobody else picked it (including nVidia), so Creative went a head and plunked down the bucks. So what? It's called BUSINESS, ever hear of that? It was a smart move that anyone here with a lick of sense would have done as well.

2) They patented the Carmack's Reverse technique for real-time lighting(created by id's John Carmack for the D3 engine), then used that patent to force id to integrate EAX technology in to the D3 engine(D3 had a custom sound engine), or else face a lawsuit over the patent.

First of all, Carmack cannot claim ownership or credit for creating the technique. He may have come up with the most perfect implementation of it, but he certainly didn't create it.

Second of all, IdSoftware went to Creative first and initiated the negotiation. Creative didn't even know about it let a lone "force" them to integrate EAX. It was a deal cut to save IdSoftware of any licensing fees and at the same give Creative a little extra marketing strength. Both sides made out as well as the end user. Don't like EAX? Guess what, you DON'T have to use it.

And third, the only idiots who ever even mentioned a lawsuit was same fore mention anti-Creative twits. Creative never threatened IdSoftware. IdSoftware stated that if it ever even got that far, they would have simply implemented an alternate option that would have worked just as well, albeit with a performance hit.


3) They have stayed stagnant in the sound card market for years now, dragging on the same architecture since 1997(where the Live was released, even the current Audigy 4 is derived from the Live). Only now, 8 years later are they releasing a new sound card(the X-fi), and frankly we don't have enough info to make sure if it's not another rehash of some sort.

The WHOLE PC audio industry has stagnated. True, innovation has not been great, but to compare a SBLive to a Audidy 4 is just idiotic.

3b) They artificially end support of older sound cards in spite of the fact that they are the same in order to apparently drive the sale of new cards. Creative has stopped releasing drivers for the A1 even though it's exactly like the A2/A2ZS/A4, down to the point where the A2 drivers install and work just fine on the A1(Creative couldn't even be bothered to change the device ID).

This is perhaps the only area where I agree. There's no obligation for any manufacturer to continue support for legacy product, but in this case, I don't think it would be too difficult for at least compatibility updates if the software architect is not too difficult to adapt.
 

leigh6

Diamond Member
Jun 2, 2004
3,011
0
0
The only company in the industry that I get nausous talking about. Just yesterday tried to install a 5.1 card and tried to get a driver from them.

THEY JUST SUCK!!!!! No support for a product I bought from Newegg 3 months ago!!!! That is crap!!!! (My first blue word I have ever typed on this forum and no company deserves it more than Creative!!!!!)
 

JBDan

Platinum Member
Dec 7, 2004
2,333
0
0
I've had bad luck with their cards and their drivers. Dont hate them at all... just will not buy one again. So tell me, what is an equal alternative which has excellent fidelity and good 5.1 spdif out. Is Chaintech's card an alternative. Anyone with experience w/ a viable alternative plz respond. Just a couple will be fine as I dont want to hijack this thread.
 

Brian48

Diamond Member
Oct 15, 1999
3,410
0
0
Originally posted by: JBDan
I've had bad luck with their cards and their drivers. Dont hate them at all... just will not buy one again. So tell me, what is an equal alternative which has excellent fidelity and good 5.1 spdif out. Is Chaintech's card an alternative. Anyone with experience w/ a viable alternative plz respond. Just a couple will be fine as I dont want to hijack this thread.

I've got the Chaintech. A great music card, but doesn't compare to the Audigy line when it comes to gaming. I've used almost every consumer level sound card on the market. The best alternative I've ever come across that also offered a decent balance between gaming and music was/is the Herc Fortissimo II/III. Almost as good for music as the Chaintech AV-710 and almost as good for gaming as the Audigy. Unfortunately, Herc doesn't produce this card any more as Cirrus Logic has stopped production on the chipset. I still have mine in a backup and will continue to use it so long as the drivers remain compatible.
 
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