What's wrong with the economy?

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ahurtt
Good reading. Good stuff. So what are we going to do about it? How can we fix it? Why is this happening and how can we stop it? That's what I want to know.

Quit buying crap and pay of your debts. Hope all your neighbours do the same.

Get Politicians to deal with the Deficit and other Fiscal issues. Be prepared for Tax Increases or loss of recent Cuts, might suck, but is worth it if the Politicians deal with the Deficit.

Paid mortgage off last week. Hope to have cars paid off in 6 to 8 months. Debt free at 37!!!

Damn, I am still ways to go on this in Chi-town... prices here are crazy...

The Chi-town real estate prices are what is keeping me in Central Illinois... prices and property taxes are 2x-5x the similar properties down here.

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
If we would quit raising minimum wages and taxing/regulating businesses at the state and local level, small businesses would flourish and demand for jobs will increase and so will pay.

When's the last time minimum wage was raised? Long time ago.

Here's some info for you to digest:

Last updated January 2006
General Information on the MinimumWage
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwage

chart


The rest of your post is just total nonsense.

Where did I say federal? Our state's minimum wage is now at $7.63 an hour and the locally owned restaurant I work at has to keep raising it's prices to keep up and older folks living on fixed income are starting to complain. Only places unaffected by this seem to be the corporate chain stores and restaurants.

It all starts at the bottom and major corporations aren't going to have any competition if they're the only ones with the bank big enough to withstand regulations, unions, and minimum wage increases.

 

[BlancoNino]

I agree that people are in debt because of spending, but those of us who aren't should take advantage of that. At age 20, I was moved out with 1 roomate, worked 30 hours a week, had a car payment, cell phone bill, and even went to junior college (with some help from my parents) even though I was only making around $10,000 a year. I wound up saving around 75-100 dollars each month.

 

[nergee]

stop consuming...there's a novel idea............

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Gee I wonder whose fault was that...all I know is that McMansions and a luxury car in every driveway is on the rise...people are living beyond their means...it is a American "super size" cultural dynamic that I am not sure how to reverse.

Since most of your reply was total BS, i just picked one that was particularly stinky.

I have ~$55k in debt. I dont have a car and a have a sh!tty little apt near campus so i can walk to work. Why am i not reaping the benefits of retraining myself in this offshoring economy? Oh, wait, i remember, its because all the jobs are in India or China. I dont want a "McMansion" or even a car. A job that pays enough to rid myself of debt would be nice though. Is this "my fault?"

 

[Starbuck1975]

Since most of your reply was total BS, i just picked one that was particularly stinky.

Care to demonstrate how it was BS, or should I just take your word for it.

I have ~$55k in debt. I dont have a car and a have a sh!tty little apt near campus so i can walk to work. Why am i not reaping the benefits of retraining myself in this offshoring economy? Oh, wait, i remember, its because all the jobs are in India or China. I dont want a "McMansion" or even a car. A job that pays enough to rid myself of debt would be nice though. Is this "my fault?"

Everyone has their own story...I am not in a position to make judgements on your situation, but from your post it appears that you are a student...you mention all of the jobs are in China and India...that is not entirely true...I certainly found the economy to be quite robust in my career field, and I work in manufacturing of all sectors...an industry supposedly on the decline...if the path you have chosen is a job function that is easily outsourced and replicated, well then perhaps it is time to pursue a different path...I changed course at the age of 28 and never looked back...it can be done.

 

[homercles337]

Originally posted by: Starbuck1975

Since most of your reply was total BS, i just picked one that was particularly stinky.

Care to demonstrate how it was BS, or should I just take your word for it.

I have ~$55k in debt. I dont have a car and a have a sh!tty little apt near campus so i can walk to work. Why am i not reaping the benefits of retraining myself in this offshoring economy? Oh, wait, i remember, its because all the jobs are in India or China. I dont want a "McMansion" or even a car. A job that pays enough to rid myself of debt would be nice though. Is this "my fault?"

Everyone has their own story...I am not in a position to make judgements on your situation, but from your post it appears that you are a student...you mention all of the jobs are in China and India...that is not entirely true...I certainly found the economy to be quite robust in my career field, and I work in manufacturing of all sectors...an industry supposedly on the decline...if the path you have chosen is a job function that is easily outsourced and replicated, well then perhaps it is time to pursue a different path...I changed course at the age of 28 and never looked back...it can be done.

Heres a start.
"Lost technological edge." More patents are awarded to american companies than any other. The fact that many large R&D firms are moving R&D to china/india doesnt matter to you?

Student? Nope. Postdoctoral Fellow for the last 3 years.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Too bad they don't teach kids valuable stuff in schools, like how to complete a 1040, how credit cards work, interest rates, and how to balance a checkbook.

So, yeah, the average American Joe and Jane needs to learn the concept of delayed gratification, save, and eliminate debt. Then we need politicians who believe in the same concepts...cutting back spending, savings more, paying off debts, and eventually collecting less.

But none of the above can happen until we have a society that cares about education again: eliminate the teacher's union, the DOE, and introduce a school uniform standard, and school vouchers. Force schools/teachers to compete, improve, or die. I recently visited an inner-city high school school in Atlanta: 90% minority, beautiful clean campus, laptops for all students, data projectors galore, WiFi networks galore, more money spent per child than any private school in Atlanta...yet the 9th graders I saw COULD NOT READ and COULD BARELY SPEAK the ENGLISH LANGUAGE! I have never been so depressed in my life after seeing what I saw with my own eyes and ears! Represents much of what is wrong in America today: affirmative action, political correctness, unions, lack of discipline, lowering of societal standards (dumbing down America), and throwing money at solutions that government KNOWS will not fix the true problem!

Vouchers won't do sh*t. Drop the worthless NCLB and allow teachers to teach instead of training kids to take tests. Hold them accountable, yes, but develop curricula to help them teach kids to learn instead of just rote lessons.

I think mandatory classes in high school teaching kids how to file taxes, what their FICO score is and how to keep it in good shape and keep an eye on it, how to budget for once they're out of college (or go into the work force and leave the parents), what it's like to buy a car or a house, etc. will prepare them for when they're on their own and help them develop a mindset with savings in mind.

I also think parents need to be held more accountable for the failures of their kids in schools. Some states are only just now starting to crack down on truancy. A good first step.

But, that won't cure the economic woes facing this country. It's not just the consume mindset of Americans that's been drilled in over decades of marketing from the corporations, it's the politicians and corporate execs that abuse the public trust in order to make some short-term bucks and exert a bit of power that their huge egos demand.

There needs to be accountability and consequences at every level of corporate America as well as in the government.



P.S. Nice troll, Stunt.

 

[TheSlamma]

This is good news for me, cause as long as I keep a job and everyone else gets more poor the higher up in the crust I become right?


Oh wait nevermind I said I have a job, I'm just a lowlife.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: Hacp

Originally posted by: dahunan
Who cares.. let the starving starving and make the poor people our SLAVES.. Brint It On beeyotch.. The fat welfare cats in DC don't give a damn about poor people.. Dems or Repubs... none of them care..

looks like government is out of sync with the american people.

Fixed. And it's been that way for a long while now.

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
If we would quit raising minimum wages and taxing/regulating businesses at the state and local level, small businesses would flourish and demand for jobs will increase and so will pay.

There are plenty of jobs, but not enough skilled people to fill them.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
If we would quit raising minimum wages and taxing/regulating businesses at the state and local level, small businesses would flourish and demand for jobs will increase and so will pay.

When's the last time minimum wage was raised? Long time ago.

Here's some info for you to digest:

Last updated January 2006
General Information on the MinimumWage
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/issueguides_minwage_minwage

chart


The rest of your post is just total nonsense.

Where did I say federal? Our state's minimum wage is now at $7.63 an hour and the locally owned restaurant I work at has to keep raising it's prices to keep up and older folks living on fixed income are starting to complain. Only places unaffected by this seem to be the corporate chain stores and restaurants.

Is this the Seattle area? If so, I'm surprised the minimum wage isn't higher. That's a very expensive place to live, esp. on a minimum wage salary. At least WA finally did the right thing and tied minimum wage increases to inflation.

And, btw, you're complaining of older folks living on fixed wages but you want to eliminate even that? You're a real piece of work.

It all starts at the bottom and major corporations aren't going to have any competition if they're the only ones with the bank big enough to withstand regulations, unions, and minimum wage increases.

Minimum wage increases have not affected the economy in a bad way. Not at all.

And, oh gee, look at this:

Oregon restaurants fare better after minimum wage increase
http://www.ocpp.org/1999/es032399.htm

 

[Stunt]

wtf...my post was pulled?

gimme a break...



How about a 1 week vacation instead?
AnandTech Moderator

 

[DickFnTracy]

Originally posted by: Stunt
wtf...my post was pulled?

gimme a break...



How about a 1 week vacation instead?
AnandTech Moderator

My fault

I was just getting around to you.
AnandTech Moderator

 

[bamacre]

Our economic woes are the direct result of inefficient and just plain poor education. The unemployment numbers are high, yet there are tons of jobs out there waiting to be filled. Teachers' salaries need to be raised, making the job more competitive. But without teachers' also being held accountable, throwing money at the problem won't work.

I don't know how many of you have had experience working with minimum-wage workers doing low-skilled jobs, but around here, most of them are horrible. They can barely read/write, they lack responsibilty and accountability. I blame their parents just as much as the education system.

This isn't an R or D issue, both have their share of blame for all of this. The current admin and past Republican admin's have been throwing hundreds of billions of dollars into "protecting" America from boogeymen, and the Democrats have spent more money and resources trying to parent our children rather than actually teach them a useful skill.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Stunt
wtf...my post was pulled?

gimme a break...

Which leg?

 

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Trianon

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ahurtt
Good reading. Good stuff. So what are we going to do about it? How can we fix it? Why is this happening and how can we stop it? That's what I want to know.

Quit buying crap and pay of your debts. Hope all your neighbours do the same.

Get Politicians to deal with the Deficit and other Fiscal issues. Be prepared for Tax Increases or loss of recent Cuts, might suck, but is worth it if the Politicians deal with the Deficit.

Paid mortgage off last week. Hope to have cars paid off in 6 to 8 months. Debt free at 37!!!

Damn, I am still ways to go on this in Chi-town... prices here are crazy...

The Chi-town real estate prices are what is keeping me in Central Illinois... prices and property taxes are 2x-5x the similar properties down here.

And you can make just about as much as up there, if you play your cards right :thumbsup:

 

[UptheMiddle]

Originally posted by: bamacre
Our economic woes are the direct result of inefficient and just plain poor education. The unemployment numbers are high, yet there are tons of jobs out there waiting to be filled. Teachers' salaries need to be raised, making the job more competitive. But without teachers' also being held accountable, throwing money at the problem won't work.

I don't know how many of you have had experience working with minimum-wage workers doing low-skilled jobs, but around here, most of them are horrible. They can barely read/write, they lack responsibilty and accountability. I blame their parents just as much as the education system.

This isn't an R or D issue, both have their share of blame for all of this. The current admin and past Republican admin's have been throwing hundreds of billions of dollars into "protecting" America from boogeymen, and the Democrats have spent more money and resources trying to parent our children rather than actually teach them a useful skill.

UP the salary of teachers? You're out of your mind. For the amount of time worked per year (7-8 months), benefits package, and the retirement packages, I'd say that the rate of pay is WAY out of line. And increase gov't spending, great idea.
The US education system has failed MISERABLY and you want to reward that?

 

[bamacre]

Originally posted by: UptheMiddle

Originally posted by: bamacre
Our economic woes are the direct result of inefficient and just plain poor education. The unemployment numbers are high, yet there are tons of jobs out there waiting to be filled. Teachers' salaries need to be raised, making the job more competitive. But without teachers' also being held accountable, throwing money at the problem won't work.

I don't know how many of you have had experience working with minimum-wage workers doing low-skilled jobs, but around here, most of them are horrible. They can barely read/write, they lack responsibilty and accountability. I blame their parents just as much as the education system.

This isn't an R or D issue, both have their share of blame for all of this. The current admin and past Republican admin's have been throwing hundreds of billions of dollars into "protecting" America from boogeymen, and the Democrats have spent more money and resources trying to parent our children rather than actually teach them a useful skill.

UP the salary of teachers? You're out of your mind. For the amount of time worked per year (7-8 months), benefits package, and the retirement packages, I'd say that the rate of pay is WAY out of line. And increase gov't spending, great idea.
The US education system has failed MISERABLY and you want to reward that?

Obviously, you failed to read what I said in total...

But without teachers' also being held accountable, throwing money at the problem won't work.

But I forgive you, maybe you're just a victim of our poor education system. But yes, teachers make crap, and the job is not competitive. Why teach accounting when you can make more practicing it?

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: conjur
I also think parents need to be held more accountable for the failures of their kids in schools. Some states are only just now starting to crack down on truancy. A good first step.

The lack of parental accountability is one of my biggest complaints about NCLB. When I was in school, it was always obvious which kids had parents who cared and which kids' parents would rather just sit and watch TV. The kids with good, attentive parents always had better grades and were never in trouble. The kids with the worthless parents were always in trouble and failing classes.

NCLB puts too much burden on the teacher to get test performance out of the kids and ignores the parents' role in the child's education. No surprise its not doing too much in the low performing school districts...

 

[EatSpam]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Originally posted by: EatSpam

Originally posted by: Trianon

Damn, I am still ways to go on this in Chi-town... prices here are crazy...

The Chi-town real estate prices are what is keeping me in Central Illinois... prices and property taxes are 2x-5x the similar properties down here.

And you can make just about as much as up there, if you play your cards right :thumbsup:

You can, but its harder. Less companies and less job openings down here...

 

[Zebo]

The recovering economy is all smoke in mirrors have a look at this graph. People are trading thier home equity for trinkets (usually chinese ones) as our industrail base and jobs with it disappears before our polly anna eyes.
http://www.financialsense.com/Market/cpuplava/2006/images/0125.a.gif

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

 

[bctbct]

Whats wrong with the economy? Where do you start and stop, how would you answer that without a book and an editor to make it comprehensive. Ill try the short jumbled version.

Many people are naturally driven for low cost.

A few sectors we have no choice to price shop

Oil
Health care
Utilities
Taxes

The above are monopolies that consumers have no choice, yet they are some of the major expenses in our budgets. All have had major hikes with the exception of taxes which have held steady.

So how when wages are stagnant do we try to stablize our budget?

Optional luxuryies like cars
Everyday consumer products
Vacations


Americans have looked to other countries cheap labor to help our survival. Everytime we fill the tank, everytime we mail in the natural gas bill, it is in our mind that things are not good. When we go to the store, we look to the price....3 products look at the back of the package....made in "china" usually the cheapest.

Elimate 4000 40K jobs, replace them with 4000 20K jobs. Still the same number of people working...but you just lost the sale of 500 new cars. $208,000 less consumer dollars spent in a local economy. (just numbers pulled out of my ass)

Everyone talks about higher education being our savior, how?

Can you take a town like Atlanta which just lost 5000 auto jobs and replace them with 3200 engineering jobs to replace the economy dollars?

I firmly believe that manufacturing is the backbone. People think that US manufacturing is to expensive. I say foreign manufacturing is too cheap.



Manufacturing creates a lot of engineering jobs

Manufacturing keeps and expands dollars into other sectors like raw materials and construction.

Manufacturing historically has led to very good US economies.

Loss of manufacturing would cripple us during war.

I firmly believe it is time for the govt to react to the loss of manufacturing. Cheap foriegn labor may save me .10 on an item tommorow, but raises the amount I must pay in income tax. A good place to start would be elimiting the imports of products produced in slave conditions. We condemn China politically and yet purchse all their products???? Sort of a mixed message.

I would rather pay .30 more for a orange than have illegal workers getting free medical care in California ( I do not live in California)

I would rather pay $5 more to stay in a hotel than have a illegal worker getting a free education in Texas ( I do not live in Texas)

Now before anyone screams racism, my emphasis is on illegal people devaluing a labor market...that is all

Cheap, cheap cheap is not good for anyone.

Workers earning minumum wage should be described as being in a vegatative state. How could earning so little really be considered having a life.

Many jobs have been outsorced and many more are to follow. Corporate America has a thirst for cheap labor. It will never be quenched. Educated people are probably the easist to outsource with technology advancements.

Every $1 saved on labor is .20 loss in tax.

Inflation is higher than most will admit.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: Engineer

Originally posted by: sandorski

Originally posted by: ahurtt
Good reading. Good stuff. So what are we going to do about it? How can we fix it? Why is this happening and how can we stop it? That's what I want to know.

Quit buying crap and pay of your debts. Hope all your neighbours do the same.

Get Politicians to deal with the Deficit and other Fiscal issues. Be prepared for Tax Increases or loss of recent Cuts, might suck, but is worth it if the Politicians deal with the Deficit.

Paid mortgage off last week. Hope to have cars paid off in 6 to 8 months. Debt free at 37!!!

That's awesome.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: Zebo
The recovering economy is all smoke in mirrors have a look at this graph. People are trading thier home equity for trinkets (usually chinese ones) as our industrail base and jobs with it disappears before our polly anna eyes.
http://www.financialsense.com/Market/cpuplava/2006/images/0125.a.gif

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

It doesn't look pretty, does it. I do have to say that inflation is better then having a major depression, but I still think they need to crank the interest rates up some.