When can we expect AMD 290 supply situation to improve?

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Sunburn74

Diamond Member
Oct 5, 2009
5,034
2,613
136
One of our members here has two of these racks hashing away in his (large) garage with parts for 2 more arriving:
http://imgur.com/LgWH9y6

That's 72 Radeon 290X cards, if you're counting. And just one of our members.

I have no interest in mining but what are all those GPUs connected to? How are they connected? And what's stopping someone from doing the same thing just with gaming (ie 16 GPUs on a rack to run crysis). Forgive my ignorance please.
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
28
86
Looks like they are using PCIe -> USB cabling -> PCIe connectors for the GPUs. Mining doesn't require much bandwidth especially compared to gaming.

Before these showed up people used standard long ribboned PCIe extension cables, which are harder to manage for racking. They could maintain the bandwidth needed for gaming but are still limited by the type of PCIe ports the motherboard offers, miners have no issue using PCIe x 1 ports.

Doing a search for usb pcie mining cables brings up some listings.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
11,951
204
106
I have no interest in mining but what are all those GPUs connected to? How are they connected? And what's stopping someone from doing the same thing just with gaming (ie 16 GPUs on a rack to run crysis). Forgive my ignorance please.

Windows limits you to 4xgpu's. Even if it didn't there's also a need for driver support and it would be such a niche market that it wouldn't be worth the manufacturers supporting it. nVidia artificially limits you to 3gpu's on some of their models to save support costs and also encourage you to by the higher model up if you want quad SLI. That's the same reason both suppliers don't offer support beyond 2xGPU's for their mid range and lower models.
 

FalseChristian

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2002
3,322
0
71
Windows limits you to 4xgpu's. Even if it didn't there's also a need for driver support and it would be such a niche market that it wouldn't be worth the manufacturers supporting it. nVidia artificially limits you to 3gpu's on some of their models to save support costs and also encourage you to by the higher model up if you want quad SLI. That's the same reason both suppliers don't offer support beyond 2xGPU's for their mid range and lower models.

Except for the midrange GTX 760 which supports 3-way SLI.
 

Soulkeeper

Diamond Member
Nov 23, 2001
6,713
142
106
No, all that will happen is 3.0 will start with a new algorithm that is ASIC resistant. We are already seeing several novel new cryptos attempting to move away from scrypt so that they are ahead of the ASIC curve (e.g. Vertcoin/VTC).

The only things that would cause prices to normalize:
1) Massive increase in supply
2) Massive decrease in price of BTC, and therefore all crypto currencies which are soft-pegged to the value of BTC
and/or
3) Multi-government intervention

No, that's what I said ....
 

Arkaign

Lifer
Oct 27, 2006
20,736
1,377
126
Yeap, mining has pretty much ruined the value of AMD GPUs for gaming in the US (for non-miners, which is most gamers. Out of ~30 or so PC gamers I know, only a handful know what mining really is, and only one mines at all).

I think this will have a negative effect on AMD in the long run if the coin craze ends. A lot of customers will have long since gone Nvidia, and people seem irrationally loyal to corporations. I always go for the best perf/value, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

I had all but committed to buying aftermarket 290/290X for high end gamers this quarter, but haven't sold a single one now that the prices have gone batcrap. For the newegg price of a 290 vanilla, I can get someone 770SLI. Bah.
 

krumme

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 2009
5,956
1,595
136
Normally for a product like a gfx demand will be very dependant on pricechange.
In most part of the world there is no shortages. So it can only be a minor shortage on the global perspective. In the US there is shortages and that will normally not lead to huge price increases, but the mining situation changes that.

The reason is its the marginal product sold that defines price. And the miners obviously needs this product and can not change to another product. Thats a very selvdom situation actually. Normally a small price increase for eg. AMD product will lead to not only people instantly buying NV or instead buying other consumer goods like eg a monitor or a new cpu.

But this time the situation is different. There is a small shortage and that leads to huge price differences.

I think AMD would have expected prices to remain more stable or otherwise they would have allocated more cards for the US.

If gpu production was raised the first of january - when will the cards hit the market?
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
3,743
28
86
Three months sounds about right for AMD at least, Kaveri for example was shipped in the last quarter of 2013.
 

DooKey

Golden Member
Nov 9, 2005
1,811
458
136
It takes around 12 weeks from wafer start to first useable chips in the other end. Just google it. Its not exactly a secret.

The other problem is the Fab has to have production space available. If someone else has booked up all available production then you go to the end of the line.
 

BrightCandle

Diamond Member
Mar 15, 2007
4,762
0
76
There was a article just last week that the vendors were saying that they had 2 types of supply problems with AMDs GPUs.
1) That AMD wasn't producing enough chips.
2) They were having problems getting hold of the GDDR they needed

They denied that bitcoin had had any appreciable impact on the market, the problem wasn't demand it was purely supply that was too low.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
There was a article just last week that the vendors were saying that they had 2 types of supply problems with AMDs GPUs.
1) That AMD wasn't producing enough chips.
2) They were having problems getting hold of the GDDR they needed

They denied that bitcoin had had any appreciable impact on the market, the problem wasn't demand it was purely supply that was too low.

Yeah I doubt it was bitcoin so if you read it literally it may be true, although Lite and dogecoin have probably had an effect at least on pricing!

Who knows in the end. One thing that is different than years ago is that people are stocking up on GPUs, before they'd buy 1-4, not 10, 20, 100 GPUs.
 

KompuKare

Golden Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,076
1,126
136
The 290X hit $900 today on Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&Pagesize=20

Are people still making money mining? Because I hope no one is buying Radeons as gaming cards.

I can't see how unless they pumping and dumping something (in which case why note just buy and sell coins). This is what coinwarz has to say
http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurre...sha256Check=false&scryptCheck=true&e=Coinbase

That's with 900kh/s (which is a bit above average for an 290X I think), drawing 360W and with electricity price of 10c per kHW (a lot cheaper than what would pay, UK price is closer to 25c/kHw).

The most seems to be around $8 per day on Doge and under $5 on Litecoin. There are some coins which are currently higher but those tend to be total roller coasters. Like I said, if people want to speculate or play the market they might as well buy coins in the first place.
 

wand3r3r

Diamond Member
May 16, 2008
3,180
0
0
The 290X hit $900 today on Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...CE&Pagesize=20

Are people still making money mining? Because I hope no one is buying Radeons as gaming cards.

Wow what a joke. That's crazy!

There is quite a bit of money to be made mining, it's easy to pay off a card sometimes in a couple days. If you just sit and mine litecoin it will take a long time to make anything with the current pricing.

I can't see how unless they pumping and dumping something (in which case why note just buy and sell coins). This is what coinwarz has to say
http://www.coinwarz.com/cryptocurre...sha256Check=false&scryptCheck=true&e=Coinbase

That's with 900kh/s (which is a bit above average for an 290X I think), drawing 360W and with electricity price of 10c per kHW (a lot cheaper than what would pay, UK price is closer to 25c/kHw).

The most seems to be around $8 per day on Doge and under $5 on Litecoin. There are some coins which are currently higher but those tend to be total roller coasters. Like I said, if people want to speculate or play the market they might as well buy coins in the first place.

You can't buy a new coin before release, which is how you can make crazy profits for a day or two.

The calculators can hardly predict future benefits. Everyone mining dogecoin since the beginning will be sitting very well off for that 2 months or less of mining, and that's only at current prices. Personally I won't be surprised to see dogecoin take the #2 slot which will make the dogecoin mining in the beginning to dollars per hour.

If you had followed the dogecoin calculator and saw that you will make $5-10/day but at the current rate the daily average (assuming you held) would be a multiple of that.
 

moonbogg

Lifer
Jan 8, 2011
10,637
3,095
136
Looks like they are using PCIe -> USB cabling -> PCIe connectors for the GPUs. Mining doesn't require much bandwidth especially compared to gaming.

Before these showed up people used standard long ribboned PCIe extension cables, which are harder to manage for racking. They could maintain the bandwidth needed for gaming but are still limited by the type of PCIe ports the motherboard offers, miners have no issue using PCIe x 1 ports.

Doing a search for usb pcie mining cables brings up some listings.

This might explain the seemingly ridiculous 6 card + 1 motherboard "mining kits" being sold at newegg. It all makes sense now.
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
1,408
0
0
Yeap, mining has pretty much ruined the value of AMD GPUs for gaming in the US (for non-miners, which is most gamers. Out of ~30 or so PC gamers I know, only a handful know what mining really is, and only one mines at all).

I think this will have a negative effect on AMD in the long run if the coin craze ends. A lot of customers will have long since gone Nvidia, and people seem irrationally loyal to corporations. I always go for the best perf/value, but that just doesn't seem to be the case.

I had all but committed to buying aftermarket 290/290X for high end gamers this quarter, but haven't sold a single one now that the prices have gone batcrap. For the newegg price of a 290 vanilla, I can get someone 770SLI. Bah.

Nope,I have to disagree with that.
AMD making lots of money by selling loads of GPUs, HAS to be good for the company which in turn will be the best outcome for AMD gaming fans.
More money,more research...better graphics cards.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
907
0
0
Except for the fact that AMD is not making "loads" of money due to the fact that they are supply constrained and due to the fact that retailers are (presumably) the ones marking up the price in the first place.

Only the most rabid fanATIc would suggest that these ridiculously inflated USA prices are somehow a good thing for gamers.
 
Last edited:

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
2,335
1
0
I would say about one month from this post
Bitcoins are going down. (i think)
Governments are outlawing them (wow! much surprise! )
 
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