When did gamers become such <insert expletive here>!?

[Anomaly1964]

I agree with OP...

I had a thread a few weeks back and many said they only play a game on Easy or Medium...

...what a bunch of kitty kats!

 

[gothamhunter]

I don't think LTTP had any sections where you'd have 6 identical enemies of which 2 were totally invulnerable due to nothing but magic plot protection. And LTTP had a pronounced "plink" sound specifically to let players know their attacks were ineffective. The feedback is there, and designed to make it obvious that you're doing it wrong. This doesn't have that.

No, but it did have bosses that would only have certain attacks do any damage to them, and sometimes only if done in a certain way. Yes, LTTP had the distinctive "plink" sound, but I guess in my eyes the fact that the traps just wouldn't work on those two is feedback enough to let me know they're ineffective.

 

[Iron Wolf]

The Witcher isn't the only game with f'ed up boss battles. I finally got around to DA2, and was enjoying it on hard and even nightmare, except for the boss battles, which were nigh unwinnable unless you had exactly the right party and used exactly the right strategy. So much for RP. Normal was too easy though, even for the bosses. Should have been something in between. DAO didn't seem to have all these issues with difficulty levels.

I'm not sure who first came up with the idea that it was great fun to waste the player's time with a bunch of trash mobs that were relatively easy to beat (even in packs), and then hammer him with a hugely tougher boss mob rather than making the game an even difficulty throughout.

I guess we can blame WoW. Blame everything on WoW.

 

[motsm]

:sneaky:

EDIT: Is complaining about complainers sort of like being intolerant of intolerance?

Depends on the intolerance, and depends on the complaint. In this case, where both complaints are just completely harmless personal opinion, I find it hypocritical. Either way, my post was dramatized for sarcastic effect, so no worries.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Well, that's pretty clear to me - you try a trap, and it doesn't work, so it must not work on those. Stuff like that seems to be the main complaint nowadays. Historically, if you tried something and it didn't work, that means it doesn't work. Now, unless you're told it doesn't work by an in-game pop-up or something, then you think it's just a bug and this game is stupid (not you, just saying majority).

Can you imagine if A Link to the Past told you how to defeat all the bosses for you? God I would of hated that lol.

Well, to be fair there are so many bugs in modern games that it is a fair assumption that if something does not work as you expected it to that it might very well be a bug.

I was playing DA:O last night and came up to a group of enemies with a head on the ground. Killed all the other hurlocks, but I could not target the head, but it was attacking my party. I finally started throwing fireballs and cone spells and killed it. Now, was that head on the ground a special enemy that is not able to be targeted by melee or was it a bug? (I am pretty sure it was a Alpha that had fallen though the ground)

 

[Barfo]

To the people whining about the whiners: Go and play Super Meat Boy. Fantastic old school side scroller, some of the levels are so difficult you want to throw the controller at the wall, but so satisfying when you complete them.

 

[Iron Wolf]

To the people whining about the whiners: Go and play Super Meat Boy. Fantastic old school side scroller, some of the levels are so difficult you want to throw the controller at the wall, but so satisfying when you complete them.

That's true that there are still challenging games out there. Men of War is the one I thought of first as being particularly unforgiving.

 

[dpodblood]

To the people whining about the whiners: Go and play Super Meat Boy. Fantastic old school side scroller, some of the levels are so difficult you want to throw the controller at the wall, but so satisfying when you complete them.

Actually I never got frustrated with SMB. I often get angry at games, but not because they're hard. Because of poor controls, poor level design, or cheap deaths. The controls and level design in SMB are perfect. I went in knowing what to expect; a lot of trial and error, and a lot of challenge. That's what I got and it wasn't infuriating or disappointing.

 

[lord_emperor]

Todays gamers are pussies.

While I agree with you in principle I think the issue is more detailed. Gaming used to be a niche form of entertainment enjoyed by - for lack of a better term - "geeks". With the advent of gaming as a mainstream form of entertainment, a larger cross section of the population is now involved. Anyone with opportunity to interact with the public can attest that the average person lacks the motor skills, reasoning skills and determination that games required in the past.

 

[DangerAardvark]

I downloaded Serious Sam 1 and 2 from Steam when it was on sale the other day, and made the mistake of turning it to Hard right off the bat (only the third most difficult option BTW). And I was like "WTF is going on here, 'Hard' is hard!"

 

[Alienwho]

Chapter one of the witcher was kind of hard. The boss was easy once I figured out I was supposed to trap the tentacles. I am now on chapter 2 and I feel Godlike beating everything without any problem. Part of why it's easier now is because I just 'get' the game now and how it works. I'm just playing on normal.

I heard they were inspired by the combat and difficulty level of demon's souls. I loved demons souls and found it much more difficult than the witcher 2 because of the inability to save the game obviously.

 

[Dumac]

Assume the boss you're talking about from Witcher 2 is the Kayran, there's a specific problem with the boss battle independent of it's difficulty. It's a typical old tentacle beast, and as required the fight consists of chopping of it's tentacles before attacking it's body. First, you trap the tentacle, then cut.

The thing is, the boss has 6 tentacles which all behave the same in the first section of the fight. However, the 2 center tentacles cannot be trapped or attacked. There is no feedback on this other then the traps inexplicably not working on the center 2 tentacles, and nothing in the game that would lead you to believe they're special.

That's why it gets complaints. It's not so much difficult as it is needless obtuse.

It isn't obtuse at all. Did you look at the tentacles?

Here is a picture for reference (spoilers for those who haven't faced the beast in Chapter 1) http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/201140-meet-the-monsters-of-the-witcher-2/Kayran03-620x.jpg

You don't see anything special about the front tentacles? Not only are they longer, but htey also do not have the all important giant, attention-grabbing orange ball. It is this orange ball that you trap, and also this orange ball that you hack and slice and cut in half. So it makes sense the the two front tentacles, without orange balls, would not suffer the same fate.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

When I read the thread title, I thought this would be a thread about why there are so many jerks, cretins, and other scumbags in online multiplayer.

 

[smackababy]

It isn't obtuse at all. Did you look at the tentacles?

Here is a picture for reference (spoilers for those who haven't faced the beast in Chapter 1) http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/201140-meet-the-monsters-of-the-witcher-2/Kayran03-620x.jpg

You don't see anything special about the front tentacles? Not only are they longer, but htey also do not have the all important giant, attention-grabbing orange ball. It is this orange ball that you trap, and also this orange ball that you hack and slice and cut in half. So it makes sense the the two front tentacles, without orange balls, would not suffer the same fate.

You mean I have to look at the boss to figure out what to do? That is way to complicated...

 

[PhatoseAlpha]

It isn't obtuse at all. Did you look at the tentacles?

Here is a picture for reference (spoilers for those who haven't faced the beast in Chapter 1) http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/201140-meet-the-monsters-of-the-witcher-2/Kayran03-620x.jpg

You don't see anything special about the front tentacles? Not only are they longer, but htey also do not have the all important giant, attention-grabbing orange ball. It is this orange ball that you trap, and also this orange ball that you hack and slice and cut in half. So it makes sense the the two front tentacles, without orange balls, would not suffer the same fate.

I notice the lack of orange balls in the still picture. They're the same length as of all them though. It's an awful lot harder to see it when you're dodging around, and can't actually look at the thing because of it. It's especially difficult when the things are hovering above your head. Which they are for the entire damned fight.

 

[MemberSince97]

To the people whining about the whiners: Go and play Super Meat Boy. Fantastic old school side scroller, some of the levels are so difficult you want to throw the controller at the wall, but so satisfying when you complete them.

ROFL , yeah that shiz is hard

 

[coloumb]

Kayran was a bit difficult - as it should be. It took me about 7 tries on easy mode to kill it - 3 or 4 times I died from tentacles, and the rest died while trying to figure out how to kill the beast.

- The sorceress told me what spell to use to trap the tentacles.
- The orange balls on the tentacles made the most sense on which one's to attack
- I had no idea how to finish/kill the Kayran though - I had to youtube that part. [I probably wasn't paying attention during a conversation or didn't fully read the quest notes]

 

[Dumac]

I notice the lack of orange balls in the still picture. They're the same length as of all them though. It's an awful lot harder to see it when you're dodging around, and can't actually look at the thing because of it. It's especially difficult when the things are hovering above your head. Which they are for the entire damned fight.

When you start the fight, you are looking right at the kayran, and that is when i noticed the orange balls on the left and right side tentacles.

You didn't have your camera focused on the boss the whole time? How did you know when to dodge? You can aim the camera while dodging - the kayran rarely left my sight. I don't get how you couldn't have seen it. They are so bright; it was obvious for me :/ It is a pretty common dev tactic (portal 2, mirror's edge)

But the important thing is that you beat it in the end

EDIT: Also, no, they are shorter, and the picture shows that. Here is a better picture. http://i55.tinypic.com/2py9dft.jpg

You can see how far back the top tentacles go compared to the side one.

 

[raasco]

Alot of younger gamers don't know what a challenge is. They didn't grow up with nintendo hard games. They just want to mash a few buttons in the sequence displayed on screen and have the boss die. They also want a pat on the back and a trophy for all the "hard" work they did.

Just look at final fantasy for example. The original could be unforgiving if you chose the wrong party members. If you ventured to the wrong areas, you could your ass handed to you easily. Save it in the end dungeon with no black mage (or out spells) and your stuck there forever. Now look at FF13. I could tape the joystick forward and just press x over and over while watching tv and the game would beat itself.

I spent hours trying to beat Tyson the first time through in Punchout.

 

[Zenoth]

Generally speaking yes games are "easier" than most games a couple of years ago. Why exactly? Well we could spend months on this and never really find out what's the source. There are still some welcomed exceptions though (most of which are of course seen as "too difficult").

I could name a few I guess, from my own recent experiences...

Dragon Age: Origins, on Nightmare (no mods, no extra godlike items, just vanilla) isn't particularly easy, I HAD to pause for about 90% of the battles and MANUALLY engage EACH mobs individually with the proper party member (Alistair tanking and taunting, Morrigan/Wynn for Healing, CC'ing, Sten for DPS, Ogren for general melee purpose, Leliane for Traps and Bard buffs, etc), I STILL haven't finished that specific Nightmare playthrough, I started it about four months ago and I only play that specific game-in-progress once in a while because it's very demanding in terms of tactics and I (well, the entire party) die very often, but almost every fights feel like I'm trying to take down the Sacred Ashes' High Dragon (and I can't imagine how hard that one will be on Nightmare). As a side note, the "energy" Dragon boss in Awakening (can't remember the actual name of it) is from what I can remember one of the most difficult boss of the game (I.E of both Origins and Awakening).

Mass Effect 2 on Insane is... quite insane yes, still have a game-in-progress on Insane and I haven't touched it in months as well (difference with that one and Origins is that ME2's Insane brings frustration when I die, contrarily to DAO's Nightmare where I feel I HAVE to start again until I beat the damn battle).

S.T.A.L.K.E.R., seriously guys, no one thought about that one? Even playing it on Normal can often be difficult. I once tried playing on Veteran in Clear Sky, never made it past the checkpoint after the Swamp (and I won't bother trying that again).

Dark Messiah of Might and Magic (one of my all-time favorite sleeper hit) on Hard (or whatever the difficult was called, I do think it was named "Hard", not sure anymore) was indeed hard, I made it but damn, that game wasn't easy.

Painkiller on highest difficulty, I tried once, made it to that Frankenstein-like giant boss, never beat him. That game is long gone though I might try it again eventually, and if I recall correctly Battle out of Hell was even more difficult.

Well anyway, I could name a good number of recent games I played that were difficult, but I had to go for the higher difficulty options in the game's settings, are most players complaining about games being too easy even bothering to change those difficulty options to start with? Or are they just clicking on "New Game" immediately and expect the difficulty of it to adjust as it goes for their own taste out of the big blue or something? Anyhow, yeah, generally I agree, most games aren't challenging, but there's still a good number of "exceptions".

 

[smartpatrol]

Actually, my question is - when did PC gamers become such bitches? All you guys do is whine about everything. DRM, DLC, games are too easy, games are too mainstream, you'd probably kill yourself if you even looked at a controller, console kiddies are so stupid, etc etc.

It makes me ashamed to be a PC gamer.

You forgot "it doesn't support DX11!!!"

Is it any wonder that PC gaming is becoming increasingly marginalized? It's like PC gamers are just digging for faults to complain about well before a game is even released. What developer would want that kind of audience?

 

[frozentundra123456]

I wont address the whininess of PC gamers. My opinion is that people in general have developed a me first attitude and this carries over into PC gamers.

As to the difficulty of games, I think the best solution is to have different levels of difficulty and to be able to choose the one you want. Make "easy" really easy and "hard"
much more difficult.

I do enjoy a certain amount of challenge in games, but I dont enjoy beating my head against the wall and wasting hours and hours trying to get past one level. If someone else does enjoy that challenge, fine, go for it.

Personally though, I play games to relax or get away from the frustrations of work, family, finances, etc. so why would I want an overly difficult game to frustrate me even more.

 

[shortylickens]

I think the pussification of games started with the PS2.

Also I agree difficulty settings should be more meaningful. "Hard" needs to be hard and "Easy" needs to be easy.

 

[ImpulsE69]

I think the pussification of games started with the PS2.

Also I agree difficulty settings should be more meaningful. "Hard" needs to be hard and "Easy" needs to be easy.

I love the PS2 so I would disagree. I think it started with the Wii. NSMB you died too many times want us to go through the level for you? Yea..that was the start of a downfall, but that being said Monster Hunter Tri is a hard frickin game.

 

[Zenoth]

LoL ok seriously guys?

"Started with the &#171;console's name&#187;"

How can a console start something, developers do, in their games, not consoles (huh, anyway). Have any of you ever played... say... Pilotwings? The SNES version? WHOA wait for a sec! Could it be... could it be... could it be possible that it even "started with the SNES"?!?! I THINK SO!

-_- ....

At least be specific, specific game titles, genres, they try to accomplish different things, they are for different play styles. If "games are easier than before" then which ones? Compared to... to what? There ARE many "easy" or "too easy" games, yes I DO agree (as I said in my previous post, and I did generalize, I'd still do), but please guys don't go about naming actual consoles and pretend it "started with" this or that one. The "pussyfication" exits since probably the Atari days... ah crap, I named a company, it must refer to the Atari 2600! Damn I just contradicted myself.