When does one cross the line when it comes to killing animals?

[Apple Of Sodom]

I am all for animal killing, but it to be as quick as possible. Killing a rat is good, even with poison. Trapping it and boiling it is bad. Catching a fish is good. If you pull it out of the water then skin it alive you are a sick bastard.

Even with bugs, it is a dick move to torture them. Do I worry about it or lose sleep? No. But I am not one who will catch an insect then pull its wings off just to be a dick.

 

[polarmystery]

Torturing animals is disgusting. If you are going to kill it, do so swiftly and move on. People who get pleasure torturing anything don't deserve the life they've been given.

 

[NetWareHead]

I don't have a problem with killing animals (well, I try to avoid it personally at least) provided it's done humanely. There's a big difference between, you know, killing that rat with a quick, heavy blow to the head or snapping it's neck vs what the asshole in OP described.

This. I understands things like rats are vermin and reviled but I still feel guilt when they die horribly. My father and I were opening the shed after a winter and were prepping yard tools for spring. This was the first time the shed had been opened in months. We found a huge rats nest made in the engine of the lawnmower, all kinds of rags, scraps of lint etc... all bundled together. The adult rats all ran away and left behind dozens of newborn pink rat babies. We had no idea what to do with them but realized that hunger would set in and the babies would slowly perish. My father took each baby and threw it forcefully against the concrete walkway, pretty much killing it instantly from the impact. The ones that still moved, got another slam. it was probably the most humane way to kill them... The little bodies went into the compost after that.

Another time my dad witnessed a car ahead of him on the highway strike a deer. Car nearly lost control and pulled over. The entire front end was totalled. My dad also pulled over to assist the guy and see if he needed any help etc... They found the deer, back broken and unable to move. In pain and making screaming noises it was trying to stand up but unable to due to its extensive and probably soon to be fatal injuries. My father put his foot on its throat to end its misery. Then he took it home and we ate the venison (the non bruised salvageable part.

 

[mikeymikec]

Yeah but this was a fully grown adult doing it. You can chalk it up to young children doing it as a matter of curiosity or not really understanding what they are doing. Besides, a fly can't scream so there isn't much emotional baggage.

A quote from a film I quite like:

"We weep for the blood of a bird, but not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those with a voice."

 

[waggy]

I have no issue with the trap.

I have issue with how he killed it. What really gets me is the OP said he sounded like he enjoyed the fact the animal was alive while he tortured it.

I hunt and will kill animals that are damaging my property. I don't take joy in how i kill them. i take joy in the meat i get while hunting and knowing i am protecting my house and kids.

 

[HenryC]

A quote from a film I quite like:

"We weep for the blood of a bird, but not for the blood of a fish. Blessed are those with a voice."

Such a great quote! I'd "like" this post if I could.

 

[Scarpozzi]

Such a great quote! I'd "like" this post if I could.

If fish did have a voice, it wouldn't be too different than this interaction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONC7AQwBzRY

 

[Smoblikat]

How does one differentiate between killing an animal legitimately, and flat out animal cruelty? Sometimes there's a fine line there, but I realise that such a line is subjective. A recent thread on catching mice reminded me of someone I knew in college. He would brag to me (and other people) about his pest killing exploits.

Apparently he had a short term rat problem, so he purchased one of those diabolical glue traps. Eventually he caught the rat. Noting that the animal was still alive, he decided it was a good idea to boil a kettle of water, which he eventually poured the boiling water over the helpless animal. Not in one go, but slowly, as if to drag it on. Seemingly proud of himself, he would describe in detail the rat's screams and frantic wriggling. When he finished with the kettle, he boiled another kettle of water and did the same thing. Unfortunately the animal was not still dead by then, according to him it was wheezing and in a state of convulsions. He then noted that the fur started to fall off, and that the skin was reddening and blistering from the heat. Despite the poor creature being horribly burnt and still alive, he throws the animal, trap and all, into the dumpster outside.

I'm no psychologist, but I thought to myself "yep, future serial killer right here". Maybe he was just making it up and trying to offend people, though from talking to other people he might have had a history of this. Sure, rats may be pests, but it is really horrible to torture and kill something like that. Especially if the person telling the story had a creepy grin on his face, as if he enjoyed the experience!

Don't know about you, but something like that would certainly cross my ethical line. I have no problem killing animals, but this was something else altogether. It was quite sickening. I don't know what he is doing now, my best guess he's either in jail or in a mental institution. This was a grown man, not a little kid who's just curious and doesn't know right from wrong. Then again even when I was as young as 5 I knew doing that sorta shit was wrong.

So what do you think, was his actions justifiable or did it cross the line? When does it cross the line for you?

Disgusting behavior, absolutely crossed the line. The way I see it, I dont kill animals (minus bugs, kill them ALL) unless they are attacking me, or invading me. But I would try to make it as quick and painless as possible.

 

[Kadarin]

I draw the line at causing unnecessary suffering.

 

[nickbits]

Animals are animals. There is no such thing as animal cruelty. Animals don't have feelings. Fucking bleeding hearts anthropomorphize them, attributing human qualities that just plain don't exist. Yes, I know your dog whimpers when you kick him, but 10 seconds later he'll love you if you bring him a treat. That's not feelings, that's instinct.

I don't like animals much but that's really dumb. Animals do have feelings, they aren't as complex as a humans, but they still exist.

PS humans are animals.

 

[zinfamous]

rats deserve no mercy and neither do mice.

they are vermin and death is the only answer.

are we going to wring our hands over killing mosquitoes? Bug zappers? roach hotels? ant traps?

They are creatures just occupying their niche on this planet and--quite effectively you would have to agree--are adapted quite well at doing the things they do.

As far as pests go, it happens that they get in our way and we get in their way, from time to time. Truth be told: if you actually have a rodent problem, it's really your problem for providing them such a wonderful happy place to live. If they bother you, then by all means deal with them because they can carry disease. Best solution for me has always been to attract (or simply introduce) a rat snake into your crawl space. You also have to stop being a pigslob and clean your place every now and then.

I'm no hippy dippy PETA fucktard and am certainly not against the killing of animals for meat or for pest control (sport as well--as long as it's in addition to meat and population control), but the actions described in the OP, which certainly fall under the "no mercy" blanket, are completely unacceptable.

Consider that these bastards survived a life-ending meteor strike some 75 million years ago, and are, quite frankly, far better adapted at surviving us than even we are at surviving ourselves. Respect for the rodents; though it doesn't mean you have to like them.

 

[JumBie]

Animals are animals. There is no such thing as animal cruelty. Animals don't have feelings. Fucking bleeding hearts anthropomorphize them, attributing human qualities that just plain don't exist. Yes, I know your dog whimpers when you kick him, but 10 seconds later he'll love you if you bring him a treat. That's not feelings, that's instinct.

Good to know we got a sadist in the AnandTech forums.

 

[zinfamous]

Animals are animals. There is no such thing as animal cruelty. Animals don't have feelings. Fucking bleeding hearts anthropomorphize them, attributing human qualities that just plain don't exist. Yes, I know your dog whimpers when you kick him, but 10 seconds later he'll love you if you bring him a treat. That's not feelings, that's instinct.

This is demonstrably false.


There is certainly a level of pet ownership and crazy folks out there that obviously engage in ridiculous anthropomorphizing of animals, to a largely unacceptable degree (that bear idiot in Alaska that got eaten by the bears, comes to mind).

Of course, the existence of such idiotic humans does not negate the fact that animals certainly do engage in emotive behavior, and some very clearly display empathy. Shit, just look at crows and the creepy "funerals" that they hold.

 

[Iron Woode]

If fish did have a voice, it wouldn't be too different than this interaction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONC7AQwBzRY

or this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yz_gzUxfYjg

:awe:

 

[Vdubchaos]

There is no lines.

Lines are defined by convenience. If we do it to survive, than it's ok.

But if you do it for any other reason, it's not.

Just some more of human arrogance and stupidity there for you.

And WE are animals too.....let's not forget.

I'm sorry I take that back, we are MORe than animals, "we are higher level creatures".......

 

[surfsatwerk]

I am not going to get emotional over using glue traps to get rid of mice. If I put them out I make an effort to check them every day.

 

[Vdubchaos]

I don't like animals much but that's really dumb. Animals do have feelings, they aren't as complex as a humans, but they still exist.

PS humans are animals.

I don't like humans much either, don't worry.

Heck MOST animals are WAY better than your "average" human.

 

[moonbogg]

If its dead, you crossed the line. Eat turnips.

 

[Gooberlx2]

So what do you think, was his actions justifiable or did it cross the line? When does it cross the line for you?

That guy blew past the line like it never existed. If you have to kill an animal, like a pest, you do it in the quickest, most humane way you're able given the circumstance. It's that simple.

Fishing, hunting, slaughtering, etc...different discussion. IMO, cruelty/abuse has more to do with sociopathic frame of mind, intentions and/or neglect.

 

[NoTine42]

I don't like humans much either, don't worry.

Heck MOST animals are WAY better than your "average" human.

So, how do you explain cats? My cats like "play" with chipmunks and mice...to death. It's great watching a cat fling a living rodent in the air, watch it try to scamper away (in fear) only to have the cat pounce and fling, again and again..until the rodent is completely dead. The cats could kill the rodent in one bite, but they prefer the extended "play" time.

 

[biostud]

As long as you do it as quickly and painless as possible and don't extinguish any species it is fine.

 

[zinfamous]

So, how do you explain cats? My cats like "play" with chipmunks and mice...to death. It's great watching a cat fling a living rodent in the air, watch it try to scamper away (in fear) only to have the cat pounce and fling, again and again..until the rodent is completely dead. The cats could kill the rodent in one bite, but they prefer the extended "play" time.

This is how you explain cats:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

 

[waggy]

This is how you explain cats:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/cats_actually_kill

LOL

 

[Zargon]

nice

and yeah op dude is psycho, run away

 

[disappoint]

Using sticky traps in general is a sicko move. If you want to kill them use something that's instant like a snap trap or electrocution trap.

I have occasional mice in my attic and I keep trying to figure out how they're getting in but there's nothing really obvious and since the problem is not that often it's harder to track. If I try one thing it takes a year before I know if it worked.

That said I just use snap traps which are monitored by my server. When it goes off it breaks the circuit and I get a notification. There's only been once instance where I caught one that was still alive, I just whacked it really hard against the floor, killing it instantly. TBH I kinda felt bad. it's one thing to go dispose of an animal that's already dead but to physically kill it myself, I felt bad after.

Sometimes I'm even thinking I should just switch to live capture traps then drive them far in the woods when I catch any.

Deliberately torturing is just completely wrong and sicko. Even ISIS has some level of remorse and they are fairly speedy when they behead someone.

FUSK ISIS. Decapitating humans because they don't believe in your religious bullshit is
DISGUSTING