When Is Anandtech Going To Expose Gigabyte's Failure To Support Its Products?

[TheBeagle]

Good Morning Everyone,

The time has come to ask the Editorial Board of this web site (Anandtech.com) a simple question. Why has Anandtech utterly failed to honestly investigate and write about the rather disreputable (some might even say deceitful) denials emanating from Gigabyte concerning their failed GA-N680SLI-DQ6 motherboard?

The basic proposition is quite simple. Gigabyte unequivocally advertised that motherboard as being capable of running Intel Quad Core, 1333FSB processors. That, as it turns out, is untrue. Many buyers, myself included, purchased that rather expensive motherboard ($350.00+ USD in 2006) expecting to be able to upgrade the processor to a 1333FSB Quad Core when that chip became available. That chip eventually became available, but the board would not handle it. In fairness, Gigabyte was not the only manufacturer to experience this dilemma, but it certainly seems the worst of the bunch. Additionally, some of the other defaulting board manufacturers have made the situation right for their buyers by upgrades or rebates, but Gigabyte has refused to do so.

Now to the point of this Thread. Anandtech, and other computer technical web sites as well, have apparently earnestly avoided any fair investigation and reporting of this debacle. The Collective Silence In The Technical Media Is Deafening!!

It is quite obvious that Gigabyte is a major player in the computer industry, and therefore spends enormous sums of money on all forms of advertising. Intel is an even bigger player, and may have their hands dirty in this whole mess (up past their corporate elbows as well). Then there's the involvement of nVidia, and their inter-relationship with the processor giant, Intel, which is not at all clear in this whole mess.

The bottom line is the unmistakable fact that the buyers of the GA-N680SLI-DQ6 motherboards were collectively misled (a/k/a hosed), and Gigabyte refuses to make it right for those buyers that relied, to their detriment, on Gigabyte's clear (but false) advertising when making the decision to purchase this particular motherboard. Gigabyte's responses, at least so far, have been nothing but denial, deflection, and continuous attempts to change the topic or distort the discussion. Buyers of that motherboard have posted clear, unmistakable photos (on this Forum) of the Gigabyte advertising and board packaging that shows that this board was marketed as being designed for use with an Intel Quad Core 1333FSB processor - that advertised statement is plainly false! Shame on you Gigabyte!

So the question now resounds - Where and what are the editorial ethics of Anandtech (and other similar publishing houses as well) in this matter? Why has Anandtech failed TO INVESTIGATE AND HONESTLY WRITE ABOUT THIS SITUATION? It's a fair question Anandtech.

I believe that Anandtech owes us all an explanation of their deafening silence. Is Anandtech afraid of invoking the wrath of Gigabyte, and even Intel, if they investigate and report on this situation - I sure hope that's not the case. We all know that "money talks and people walk" as the expression goes. Is Anandtech afraid of losing the big corporate advertising dollars from Gigabyte, or possibly Intel, if they report the truth about this situation? I sure hope that Anandtech has more steel in their spine than that!

I, for one, have always had considerable faith and confidence in the professional endeavors of Anandtech. I, like literally hundreds of thousands of others, have relied upon Anandtech's honesty and integrity when reporting on products that I was considering to purchase. The reputation of Anandtech for "calling it like it is" has earned them esteem around the world. However, in this particular instances, I must again repeat, YOUR SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!

 

[FireTech]

Nice Rant :thumbsup:

However, nowhere in there does it actually state how this is in any way AnandTechs problem and how they have any responsibility regarding it.

Sorry but it sounds like a job for consumer affairs and not a tech review website.

 

[Sylvanas]

Originally posted by: FireTech
Nice Rant :thumbsup:

However, nowhere in there does it actually state how this is in any way AnandTechs problem and how they have any responsibility regarding it.

Sorry but it sounds like a job for consumer affairs and not a tech review website.

Agreed. It is not of Anandtech's concern as a product review site. Sure it would be nice to do follow ups on products a year or so after release to see how things like BIOS maturity are coming along but where do you draw the line on what products get further coverage and what ones don't? The workload would be far too immense. In short, AT receive a piece of hardware, put it through its pases in a few benches, discuss the architecture and provide a conclusion/analysis. Now if they recommended this motherboard they can only go on what information they had available at the time, so if Giga had only a few preliminary BIOS's for Quads then it would be assumed the situation would only get better- I assume from you're post that it hasn't and thats unfortunate.

I think the best message one can send to Gigabyte is not purchasing their hardware in future .

 

[Blazer7]

It is common knowledge that Gigabyte and lots of other companies use Tech sites like Anandtech to promote their products. For one, I?ve purchased the aforementioned board. Before I did so I did had a look around to gather whatever info I could and one of the best articles regarding this board was here at AT. I?ve been a regular reader of AT for nearly 5 years now but it took this GA-N680SLI-DQ6 fiasco for me to join the forums.

I guess that it is ok to test products and make the results public but is it ok to remain silent when these products fail to stand up to the manufacturer?s claims ?

 

[Miramonti]

No question, I'd be pissed too. :frown:

 

[Blazer7]

you should go here if you want to see pissed.

 

[Pilsner73]

My take on this is that people should do these things
Contact the BBB
Contact their states Attorney General
Spread the word in a concise manner

As for hardware review sites like Anandtech and others it's a good question. I think any site that promotes products and makes recomendations should decide to point out when a product/company fails to perform as advertised even if it's down the road.

I had problems in the past with a motherboard (abit is7) and a problem with the internal sound card and microphone. I bought this mobo because of general recomendations from sites and their reviews. The problem was a squeal when recording with the microphone and it seemed to be a design flaw that was widespead. I wrote to a few of the sites about checking for this problem and maybe posting a warning about it. Only one site got back to me and they claimed they did check for it and could not recreate the problem so they wouldn't post anything but at least they looked into the issue.

 

[jaggerwild]

Originally posted by: TheBeagle
Good Morning Everyone,

The time has come to ask the Editorial Board of this web site (Anandtech.com) a simple question. Why has Anandtech utterly failed to honestly investigate and write about the rather disreputable (some might even say deceitful) denials emanating from Gigabyte concerning their failed GA-N680SLI-DQ6 motherboard?

The basic proposition is quite simple. Gigabyte unequivocally advertised that motherboard as being capable of running Intel Quad Core, 1333FSB processors. That, as it turns out, is untrue. Many buyers, myself included, purchased that rather expensive motherboard ($350.00+ USD in 2006) expecting to be able to upgrade the processor to a 1333FSB Quad Core when that chip became available. That chip eventually became available, but the board would not handle it. In fairness, Gigabyte was not the only manufacturer to experience this dilemma, but it certainly seems the worst of the bunch. Additionally, some of the other defaulting board manufacturers have made the situation right for their buyers by upgrades or rebates, but Gigabyte has refused to do so.

Now to the point of this Thread. Anandtech, and other computer technical web sites as well, have apparently earnestly avoided any fair investigation and reporting of this debacle. The Collective Silence In The Technical Media Is Deafening!!

It is quite obvious that Gigabyte is a major player in the computer industry, and therefore spends enormous sums of money on all forms of advertising. Intel is an even bigger player, and may have their hands dirty in this whole mess (up past their corporate elbows as well). Then there's the involvement of nVidia, and their inter-relationship with the processor giant, Intel, which is not at all clear in this whole mess.

The bottom line is the unmistakable fact that the buyers of the GA-N680SLI-DQ6 motherboards were collectively misled (a/k/a hosed), and Gigabyte refuses to make it right for those buyers that relied, to their detriment, on Gigabyte's clear (but false) advertising when making the decision to purchase this particular motherboard. Gigabyte's responses, at least so far, have been nothing but denial, deflection, and continuous attempts to change the topic or distort the discussion. Buyers of that motherboard have posted clear, unmistakable photos (on this Forum) of the Gigabyte advertising and board packaging that shows that this board was marketed as being designed for use with an Intel Quad Core 1333FSB processor - that advertised statement is plainly false! Shame on you Gigabyte!

So the question now resounds - Where and what are the editorial ethics of Anandtech (and other similar publishing houses as well) in this matter? Why has Anandtech failed TO INVESTIGATE AND HONESTLY WRITE ABOUT THIS SITUATION? It's a fair question Anandtech.

I believe that Anandtech owes us all an explanation of their deafening silence. Is Anandtech afraid of invoking the wrath of Gigabyte, and even Intel, if they investigate and report on this situation - I sure hope that's not the case. We all know that "money talks and people walk" as the expression goes. Is Anandtech afraid of losing the big corporate advertising dollars from Gigabyte, or possibly Intel, if they report the truth about this situation? I sure hope that Anandtech has more steel in their spine than that!

I, for one, have always had considerable faith and confidence in the professional endeavors of Anandtech. I, like literally hundreds of thousands of others, have relied upon Anandtech's honesty and integrity when reporting on products that I was considering to purchase. The reputation of Anandtech for "calling it like it is" has earned them esteem around the world. However, in this particular instances, I must again repeat, YOUR SILENCE IS DEAFENING!!

Mr. Beagel !
Cheers!
You do not mince words and are Very articulate with them (only wish I could be)! Thank you for saying the things I couldn't get close to saying, you have and always had my respect.
Again Thank You !
Jaggerwild Gig-a-crap owner

 

[TheBeagle]

Good Afternoon Everyone.

Thanks for the commentary on this Thread and the discussion concerning Gigabyte's lack of commitment to support its customers who unfortunately purchased the GA-N680SLI-DQ6 motherboard. Although I certainly respect each of your opinions, I must take exception with the notion that Anandtech has no duty to follow up on this situation.

Circumstances such as these will surely reoccur IF no one holds the manufacturers accountable for their misstatements, indeed false claims. Oh sure, we can all speculate on whether or not Intel porked GB, and nVidia in particular, by "tweaking" something in the production run of the Quad Core 2 1333FSB Extreme processors (which Gigabyte unmistakably and openly advertised would be "supported" in this failed board). But that's not the point.

The simple point of THIS THREAD is that those segments of the computer industry who hold themselves out as experts in the testing and article review of these products, i.e. Anandtech.com, have utterly failed in their ongoing responsibility to set the record straight about the misleading portions of THEIR OWN REVIEW ARTICLES, which were published on this web site, as it pertains to the false claims of the manufacturer (Gigabyte).

I will certainly presume, until it is proved to be otherwise, that Anandtech was equally taken in by Gigabyte's misleading advertising. However, at some point (now quite a while ago) Anandtech had much more than a strong suspicion that Gigabyte's claims of future processor compatibility were not going to bear out to be true. Indeed, it harkens to the famous quote from the infamous Watergate Hearings, when Senator Howard Baker asked, "What did the President (Nixon) know, and when did he know it!" At that point where Anandtech knew or should have known about Gigabyte's misleading advertising, Anandtech had an affirmative professional duty as journalists to CORRECT THE RECORD! If you don't believe me on that assertion, just ask any credible journalist about that ethical responsibility. It's part of what is taught to first-year journalism students in their ethics classes. I sure hope that someone on the Anandtech professional staff recalls learning that in college.

An electronic publishing house such as Anandtech cannot legitimately adopt an attitude like Pontius Pilate, and wash their collective hands of their own published article's contents, and just attempt to walk away from the whole unpleasant matter. As I said, it is Anandtech's DUTY to correct the record AND to report the underlying facts as to HOW this happened. That's the only way that the likelihood of a repeat performance will be reduce or eliminated.

To Anandtech - Remember, prolonged silence can reasonably be construed as affirmation and endorsement of Gigabyte's corporate behavior in this matter. Query, is that affiliation with Gigabyte's deplorable conduct going to be part of your journalistic legacy going forward? Inquiring minds would like some straight answers Anandtech.

Best regards to everyone. Have a nice day. TheBeagle :beer:

 

[evident]

im in outrage that s3 suspend doesn't work on my ep35-ds3r and e8400! not to mention their ADVERTISED DES software doesn't work with it either!

 

[Sterman]

I'm with the Beagle on this one... Of course i'm a little biased seeing as I bought one of these 41,980 Yen boat anchors. *361 bones (us) at the time 116 - $1 plus whatever visa charged me to convert dollars to yen* I was stationed in Japan at the time of purchase and bought it off the local economy. Although not as eloquent as mr beagle I'll add my wandering rant below.

If the people paying 350+ for a board get this kind of support (ie eol a product instead of fixing it and then ignore the customer instead of take care of them), then what kind of support do you think the average joe spending 100-200 bucks for a board is going to get?

We (long time lurker, don't post much) still receive the occasional post from people that have just bought this board after doing their research and reading the reviews that call it the greatest thing since sliced bread. Then they stumble across our forum when they start having issues getting it to perform how the box says it should. Then they find out oh yeah btw its EOL and they never fixed what was supposed to be fixable by a bios update which come to find out is an engineering problem that can't be adjusted by the bios... which is intels fault for changing something between the blah blah blah... we don't care why... it doesn't fricken work as advertised.

Not only would I be pissed at Gigabyte if I was one of these guys... but you can be darn sure I'd never read another review from that site again. This should clarify why review sites should want to hold manufacturers responsible for what they print on the box... It calls their credibility into direct question even if they too were duped by the manufacturer.

regards

Sterman

 

[eklock2000]

Much Kudos to all those contributing here and elsewhere to help pressure this issue.

Unfortunately, the GIANT Gigabyte DES, etc. advertising banners on every forum page at this website will most likely preclude any comment or follow-up from Anandtech. I bet those banners pay for a lot of jobs at Anandtech. Suxors.

EK2K

 

[TheBeagle]

Good Afternoon Mr. Sterman & Everyone.

Mr. Sterman: You are absolutely correct! A situation such as this one does, indeed, draw into question the credibility of not only the manufacturer (Gigabyte), but also the publisher - Anandtech.com. The failure of Anandtech (and the other journalists as well) to hold Gigabyte accountable is akin to a CONSPIRACY BY SILENCE! There's just no "nice" or "politically correct" way to say that - it is what it is.

However, it is not at all too late for Anandtech and the other publishers to do the right thing. All they need to do is simply investigate this situation, report the facts, and then let the chips fall where they may. They could also use their individual and collective publishing clout to cause Gigabyte to reassess its indefensible position in this matter, and make the situation right for its customers.

Think about it. One the scale of 10, correcting this failed motherboard fiasco would not even amount to a portion of a 1. Gigabyte is a multi-multi-million dollar, international corporation. The net cost to Gigabyte in order to rectify this situation is minuscule at best - especially as compared to the harm to its reputation each and every day this matter goes unresolved. However, so far, the position and attitude adopted by Gigabyte is an open display of raw corporate arrogance and greed - pure and simple.

Come on Anandtech - find your man-sized jewels, and do the right thing yourselves!

Best regards to everyone. Have a nice day. TheBeagle :beer:

 

[cdfire]

You know I agree with you Beagle. In fact the only time I have seen a review site come back and say hey that review on the 680I we did turned out to be wrong, was When hard OCP did a review on the 680I and then a week or two later came back and stated how upset they where with the board after further review and then they also came back after EVGA fixed the issue and supported there customers and said such. The gave there first review of which was great for the board, then came back and said hey wait a second, this thing sucks, and then came back yet again and said good job fixing the issues. I believe it was a EVGA board in question.

I do however thank Gary very much for all his help with our Gigabyte issue. I think he went way out of his way to try to help us all out, even if a final review was never entered, for if you all recall, the Review here at Anandtech on this board was a early review with another more in depth review at a later time of which it never came.

 

[TheBeagle]

Good Evening Mr. CD & Everyone.

To Mr. CD: I totally agree with you about Gary Key's outstanding efforts to help everyone with this faulty board. And yes, Gary went went way above and beyond the call of duty trying to work with Gigabyte on behalf of all the consumers that purchased that ill-fated board. However, as good a technician and writer as Gary is, he's not an alchemist, and can't turn lead into gold. And that's what we have here - a lead motherboard that was advertised to be the best and all encompassing motherboard that we were all waiting to have. As it turns out, the motherboard became a sort of pagan "Golden Calf" referred to in the biblical writings (Exodus, Chapters 19 - 32). It is especially significant to remember that Gary has had a personal family crisis, the magnitude of which I would not wish on my worst enemy - God Bless him and his family. The mere fact that he is still testing, writing and trying to help us is a testament to his sterling character. Lesser men would have folded a long time ago under that unbelievable stress and strain.

It would be VERY naive for anyone to believe that Gary would be "allowed" to write an article about Gigabyte's deplorable conduct without the direct authorization of Anand himself. We shall see if Anand has the moral courage to allow that type of an honest article to be written. Don't also forget that Anand and other publishing colleagues also have a BIG stake in their print magazine, CPU, and that mag enjoys significant revenues from Gigabyte, Intel and others on a monthly basis. In the cutthroat environment of the printed media, the competition for advertising dollars is the fiercest.

Have you also noticed that not a peep has been forthcoming from the Administrators of Anandtech? It would also be very naive to believe that every one of these critical postings are not being read and forwarded on to the highest levels of management. I suspect that the "hunker down" mentality is prevailing at the moment, and it is expected that this issue concerning Gigabyte's attitude and conduct will run out of steam in short order and then become irrelevant. We shall see on that issue as well.

Best regards to everyone. Have a nice evening TheBeagle :beer:

 

[golem]

Originally posted by: FireTech
Nice Rant :thumbsup:

However, nowhere in there does it actually state how this is in any way AnandTechs problem and how they have any responsibility regarding it.

Sorry but it sounds like a job for consumer affairs and not a tech review website.

I'm sorry TheBeagle, but I sort of agree with FireTech on this one. Pick just about any tech product and there will be something that doesn't work as it should. Should Anandtech or any review site have to go back and do research on it? Is it really there duty as you put it?

 

[bka4u2c]

Well, I have been following the original thread for this motherboard, as I owned one and posted earlier on in the thread. However, my hardware changes like weather in Michigan so I didn't have the motherboard for too long.

I will say this, follow-up reviews can only beneifit all envolved. And because of this whole thing with Gigabyte, I refused to buy another one of their products. I considered it for my P35, went with Abit; considered it for my 780i; went with MSI. At one time I was a big Gigabyte fan, but this is twice now that I know of that they have had a product go EOL, leaving customers in the cold. Not cool.

 

[TheBeagle]

Good Evening Mr. Golem & Everyone.

Mr. Golem: May I respectfully suggest that you read the 103 pages or so of postings about the GA-N680SLI-DQ6 motherboard. You will soon note on such reading, that the Anandtech staff was quite aware that there were serious problems with the performance of Quad Core procs in this board. That problem became acute when the 1333FSB Dual Core 2 Extreme procs became available later in 2007. That very processor was advertised to work and be supported by the unmistakable Gigabyte literature and even on the board packaging. Notwithstanding the valiant efforts of Gary Key to work with Gigabyte to find a solution, none was forthcoming, since a solution was beyond the realm of board structure and design, and therefore an impossibility .

Gigabyte apparently realized that there was "Trouble in River City" about that time, and decided to release a Rev. 2 of the Board. That wasn't much help. Then Gigabyte EOL'd the whole board. The bitching and screaming promptly followed - thus the Pontius Pilate comparison I made earlier. It is important to remember that Anandtech KNEW about these board failures to meet advertised performance standards, but did nothing to investigate and report it. Thus the conspiracy by silence comparison.

This is not a case where a publisher does a one-time review on a product and then has little or no followup contact with that product thereafter. Quite to the contrary, Anandtech knew all about these problems from the very first days when they began to manifest themselves - but apparently decided to say nothing. The promised follow up article that was supposed to be published after the initial quite complimentary article was likewise killed without any explanation. We can now surmise the reason as to WHY there was no follow up article. I will give Anandtech credit for not publishing that followup article, which would have been, at best, a distortion of the truth.

So may I respectfully suggest that in THIS situation there indeed was a DUTY to investigate and fairly report these matters. There are a lot of aggrieved folks who now want to know WHY Anandtech kept silent!

Best regards to everyone. Have a nice evening. TheBeagle :beer:

 

[lopri]

I read the first couple of pages in the linked thread, and wow that really pissed me off. (especially the part where Gigabyte tell the user to take/send a picture of box that says the board support quad-cores) And I haven't even had this board.

 

[TheBeagle]

Good Evening Brother Lopri.

I guess you can now see for yourself the absolute arrogance of Gigabyte on this matter. Since you're a Moderator, can you intercede directly with Anand and request that he get personally involved in this fiasco? Anand's credentials in the computer world are as good as anyone's. He will certainly enhance his esteem on this Forum and generally around the world by doing the right thing - NOW!

Best regards. Have a nice evening. TheBeagle :beer:

PS. Gigabyte ought to stick a sock in the mouth of their spokesperson, Collin, for the asinine responses he sent to several customers, as clearly published on the link you viewed.

 

[Sterman]

Mr Beagle,

I think they may have already put a sock in poor mr collin's mouth seeing as he hasn't responded in a few pages. Or it might just be their standard gigabyte response to customer service...

cricket...

cricket...

what was the question again?



PS. Jaggerwild is cracking me up... I think janus is a dude...

 

[jaggerwild]

ROFLMAO!!!
figures, I'm nice to ladies is all. Have six older sisters so yeah I respect women. Really a dude? I can't stop laughing Good stuff


Good evening all!
This is all any of us wants a working board that WE PAID for, not this smear campain...Nothing more than a three hundred fifty dollar board that DOES what it states. I don't know maybe I'm asking to much?
As stated before this board is so over the edge that a bios update will ultimately doom any of our hopes rather than rekindle them. When you have cutting edge tech stuff as Mr. Beagel put it, your bound to have to pay for it some where.


But there is a deeper thing going on in the tech-E world for this stuff to be swept under the rug. With all the finger pointing, the consumer has been the one footing the bill. And please don't tell me that they didn't know about it (they being big money corps). Even the references to the 780 boards being a "fixed"680 board with the 2.0PCI-E. This in it self suggests that more than the eye can see was going on, as you all know was.Someone's gotta take a fall for it, at least EVGA did right by there following with the step up program. Even then they charged the public an extra fee to replace these defective boards and people lined up for them by the boat loads (hint hint).
Multi-million dollar Corporation, and all we get was Mr. Collin trying to again divert attention to there website, witch has changed from when they knew the stuff was gonna hit the proverbial fan.
where are the "1333 FSB Extreme Quad cores" that are supported in this link?
http://www.gigabyte-usa.com/Su...el.aspx?ProductID=2417
NONE!!! NOTA!!!
http://pic80.picturetrail.com/...19023331/310379984.jpg

Funny thing, I never knew before a week ago that Anandtech was a dude that is very smart who started this site. Till I picked up the last edition of "CPU" the magazine and saw the article about him. I bought the magazine while waiting for my flight and started to read it, as I dislike flying so reading helps to guide the mind.
Also I did want to say to Mr.Gary that I did not know your current situation till everybody posted there heart felt wishes to you and your family. I too wanted to wish you and your family nothing but the best, much strength and hope!!!

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: golem

Originally posted by: FireTech
Nice Rant :thumbsup:

However, nowhere in there does it actually state how this is in any way AnandTechs problem and how they have any responsibility regarding it.

Sorry but it sounds like a job for consumer affairs and not a tech review website.

I'm sorry TheBeagle, but I sort of agree with FireTech on this one. Pick just about any tech product and there will be something that doesn't work as it should. Should Anandtech or any review site have to go back and do research on it? Is it really there duty as you put it?

You clearly did not follow any of the links here. There are hundreds of posts complaining about this board. People use sites like Anand to determine which board will be the best to purchase, and the flaws were well known. Not doing a followup review on a board that was clearly misrepresented is downright irresponsible and definately brings this forum's credibility into question.

I am very happy that I did not go with a Gigabyte board, and I mean any Gigabyte board for my new Q6600, and I would hate to think that I could not trust the integrity of sites like this one when researching which components would be the best suited for what I need.

We'll have to see how this plays out.

 

[golem]

Nope, I didn't follow the links. I'm just commenting in general. But if these problem cropped up after the review, then my positions still hold I believe. If they were known before the review, then yes, Anandtech should have done a more thorough job in their review and maybe done a follow up. But then again, purchasers should have also done more research themselves before purchase instead of just relying on Anandtech's review.

 

[Curr]

Originally posted by: golem
Nope, I didn't follow the links. I'm just commenting in general. But if these problem cropped up after the review, then my positions still hold I believe. If they were known before the review, then yes, Anandtech should have done a more thorough job in their review and maybe done a follow up. But then again, purchasers should have also done more research themselves before purchase instead of just relying on Anandtech's review.

You are completely missing the point. The box / website / manual all state clearly that the mobo will support said processors. A lot of us bought the mobo based on that information. How is any of this our fault for not doing our research? Every review stated the same information that was given to them by Gigabyte.

Your lack of logic and common sense is astounding. You didn't even read the relevant information and are "just commenting in general". What the hell does that mean anyway... "I'm too lazy to read and will just talk out my ass about something I know nothing about?"

Then how on earth can you say that your positions are valid?

Commense sense much?