When to expect an IPAD alternative?

[MJinZ]

A comparison of sales figures is not germane to the discussion. You mocked the entire product category (durr, it's a phone minus the phone, so it is just an mp3 player, durr). The fact that dozens of devices exist - and do well - in this product category makes your attempt to explain it away as some sort of Apple la la land is, as I said, pathetic.

It is VERY relevant to the discussion, because when there is a stupid product category like say.. the iPad or Ipod Touch, the criticism is directed at the consumers. It is obvious then, that majority market holder and their consumers are in La La Land, while a small amount of people who buy Zunes are in a different La La Land.

At least with the Zune HD, I can understand someone buying one to output HD video as its primary strength.

 

[TheWart]

It is VERY relevant to the discussion, because when there is a stupid product category like say.. the iPad or Ipod Touch, the criticism is directed at the consumers. It is obvious then, that majority market holder and their consumers are in La La Land, while a small amount of people who buy Zunes are in a different La La Land.

At least with the Zune HD, I can understand someone buying one to output HD video as its primary strength.

wow, I guess I'll just have to let you and your incredible business/consumer insight skills alone, because your mind is obviously made up.

 

[TheStu]

iPod Touch is one of the most hilarious things I've ever seen.

It's an iPhone without the phone.

So your carrying one dummy phone (an Mp3 player primarily) and your iPhone...

I just Laugh my ass off at the thought that consumers have bit and hooked.

Because nothing really can make too much sense in Apple La La land.

How is the iPod Touch hilarious?

Yes, it is the iPhone without a phone, a device that is valuable to people. Should the Army buy a bunch of iPhones to give to its soldiers to use as translaters in Iraq, or could they maybe just give them the cheaper, thinner, lighter, longer lasting iPod Touch?

I want a new mp3 player, I don't need much capacity so the iPod Classic is out. I need more capacity than the Nano or Shuffle, so it is out. I need roughly 30GB of space, which puts me into iPod Touch territory, furthermore, I like the idea of having a larger screen to watch videos on, or to play games on.

I simply want a small goof off device/web browser for use at home or at work (if there was wifi) and don't want to pay $100/month for it.

What is so wrong with the idea of people wanting what the iPhone/Nexus One can offer but don't want to pay a monthly fee for it, and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars to get it sans contract?

As TheWart said, your mind is obviously made up, but I just wish you would explain your reasoning less flippantly. I mean, I don't see why I would want a Wii or a DS or a PSP, but there are millions of people out there that have their reasons for wanting one and I don't think that they are idiots.

 

[MJinZ]

How is the iPod Touch hilarious?

Yes, it is the iPhone without a phone, a device that is valuable to people. Should the Army buy a bunch of iPhones to give to its soldiers to use as translaters in Iraq, or could they maybe just give them the cheaper, thinner, lighter, longer lasting iPod Touch?

I want a new mp3 player, I don't need much capacity so the iPod Classic is out. I need more capacity than the Nano or Shuffle, so it is out. I need roughly 30GB of space, which puts me into iPod Touch territory, furthermore, I like the idea of having a larger screen to watch videos on, or to play games on.

I simply want a small goof off device/web browser for use at home or at work (if there was wifi) and don't want to pay $100/month for it.

What is so wrong with the idea of people wanting what the iPhone/Nexus One can offer but don't want to pay a monthly fee for it, and don't want to spend hundreds of dollars to get it sans contract?

As TheWart said, your mind is obviously made up, but I just wish you would explain your reasoning less flippantly. I mean, I don't see why I would want a Wii or a DS or a PSP, but there are millions of people out there that have their reasons for wanting one and I don't think that they are idiots.

Reasoning - I'll give it to you straight then:

1) Everyone needs a phone.

2) No one needs to carry duplicative devices, especially not men (we do not carry bags like women).

Thus A) These two statements make the Ipod Touch a redundant device.

OK, say you like redundancy.

Let's see what remains that it can do:

1) Music
2) Video
3) Gaming
4) Apps

1) - It's huge for a dedicated MP3 player. It's limited for storage for it's size.
2) - Video is adequate, yet falls short of something like the Zune HD. Like HD short.
3) - Playstations can do the above, and play developed bonafide games
4) - What kind of killer apps do you need, that a dedicated device... like say a translator can't do better?

I simply can't imagine any worthwhile application that operates properly without OTA data (aka NOT WiFi).

Thus, 2) It's outclassed in every single way

Alright, say you're OK with a redundant and outclassed device. What's left?

3) It's nice, thin, and sexy with great build quality and a fruit logo.

Alright, I'll give you that one. That's definitely worth dropping a couple of $hundred dollars on. If consumers realize #1 and #2, they must be buying it for #3.

And yes, I find #3 hilarious for the price of the device.

 

[TheStu]

Reasoning - I'll give it to you straight then:

1) Everyone needs a phone.

2) No one needs to carry duplicative devices, especially not men (we do not carry bags like women).

Thus A) These two statements make the Ipod Touch a redundant device.

OK, say you like redundancy.

Let's see what remains that it can do:

1) Music
2) Video
3) Gaming
4) Apps

1) - It's huge for a dedicated MP3 player. It's limited for storage for it's size.
2) - Video is adequate, yet falls short of something like the Zune HD. Like HD short.
3) - Playstations can do the above, and play developed bonafide games
4) - What kind of killer apps do you need, that a dedicated device... like say a translator can't do better?

I simply can't imagine any worthwhile application that operates properly without OTA data (aka NOT WiFi).

Thus, 2) It's outclassed in every single way

Alright, say you're OK with a redundant and outclassed device. What's left?

3) It's nice, thin, and sexy with great build quality and a fruit logo.

Alright, I'll give you that one. That's definitely worth dropping a couple of $hundred dollars on. If consumers realize #1 and #2, they must be buying it for #3.

And yes, I find #3 hilarious for the price of the device.

1: True, but not everyone wants/needs a smartphone
2: I carry duplicative devices, I have my dumbphone, my iPod, my iPhone (unactivated, so it is an iPod Touch), and my laptop most places. The iPod remains almost solely in my car, so even if I had an iPhone/Android that could make calls, I would still keep a dedicated music player.
3: All true, but honestly, how is the fruit logo any different from the Sony logo that keeps people buying their TVs instead of someone else's? Brand recognition and loyalty are vital to a company.

As for what it is good for...

1: Yes, it is large for a dedicated music player, but it isn't any larger than an iPod Classic, and the iPod Classic has its own shortcomings (no wifi, smaller screen, overkill capacity for those like me)
2: The ZuneHD has a similar resolution to the iPod Touch, so the HD part is only useful if you are hooking it up to a TV which I mean, honestly now, how many people do you really think do that? How many carry the player, plus the cable, with them? How many would just use their laptop?
3: If you mean the PSP when you say playstations (the only playstation I know of with a built in battery and screen) then you are correct, it is probably better as a dedicated game player, but it falls short in every other regard, and now you are hauling around a dreaded duplicative device.
4: Stand alone dictionary, stand alone calculator, stand alone email device, stand alone web device, stand alone game device, stand alone music player, stand alone dictionary, stand alone e-reader, stand alone video player, stand alone recipe catalog, et al. Yes, they very possibly do their individual jobs better than the iPod Touch, BUT you HATE duplicative devices.

YOU cannot imagine a useful application that doesn't need constant connection... how about a pill database for doctors? How about the entirety of Gray's Anatomy? How about Bar preparation materials? How about a windage calculator for marksmen?

Again, just because you think it is an extravagance that doesn't fill a need doesn't mean that it doesn't. And with something like 30 million devices sold, I find it hard to believe that every single one of them was duped into buying something shiny.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

my dad has a dumbphone and and ipod touch. he has absolutely no need for a $30 data plan. he's happy with his few apps and PDA functionality + music/photos that the ipod touch gives him.

 

[MJinZ]

1: True, but not everyone wants/needs a smartphone
2: I carry duplicative devices, I have my dumbphone, my iPod, my iPhone (unactivated, so it is an iPod Touch), and my laptop most places. The iPod remains almost solely in my car, so even if I had an iPhone/Android that could make calls, I would still keep a dedicated music player.
3: All true, but honestly, how is the fruit logo any different from the Sony logo that keeps people buying their TVs instead of someone else's? Brand recognition and loyalty are vital to a company.

As for what it is good for...

1: Yes, it is large for a dedicated music player, but it isn't any larger than an iPod Classic, and the iPod Classic has its own shortcomings (no wifi, smaller screen, overkill capacity for those like me)
2: The ZuneHD has a similar resolution to the iPod Touch, so the HD part is only useful if you are hooking it up to a TV which I mean, honestly now, how many people do you really think do that? How many carry the player, plus the cable, with them? How many would just use their laptop?
3: If you mean the PSP when you say playstations (the only playstation I know of with a built in battery and screen) then you are correct, it is probably better as a dedicated game player, but it falls short in every other regard, and now you are hauling around a dreaded duplicative device.
4: Stand alone dictionary, stand alone calculator, stand alone email device, stand alone web device, stand alone game device, stand alone music player, stand alone dictionary, stand alone e-reader, stand alone video player, stand alone recipe catalog, et al. Yes, they very possibly do their individual jobs better than the iPod Touch, BUT you HATE duplicative devices.

YOU cannot imagine a useful application that doesn't need constant connection... how about a pill database for doctors? How about the entirety of Gray's Anatomy? How about Bar preparation materials? How about a windage calculator for marksmen?

Again, just because you think it is an extravagance that doesn't fill a need doesn't mean that it doesn't. And with something like 30 million devices sold, I find it hard to believe that every single one of them was duped into buying something shiny.

I would infer that the 30 million are:

90% who couldn't afford an iPhone or the data plan of $30/month, or were stuck in contract
90% of those people use it solely for the Mp3 Player
75% of those people might also use dumphone functions... like um Calculator, Alarm clock etc.
5% of those people also use the browser, if they ever find free WiFi.

So yea, I'm still going with that most people bought it to be something shiny. Just like the iPad, sure there are some people who can really put it to good use. Most people, I would say could have gotten something better suited for their needs. The same applies to Zune HD, unless you're the 1% of people who puts video presentations of it and shows it to people for meetings or work or family gatherings.

 

[hanoverphist]

Reasoning - I'll give it to you straight then:

1) Everyone needs a phone.

2) No one needs to carry duplicative devices, especially not men (we do not carry bags like women).

Thus A) These two statements make the Ipod Touch a redundant device.

OK, say you like redundancy.

Let's see what remains that it can do:

1) Music
2) Video
3) Gaming
4) Apps

1) - It's huge for a dedicated MP3 player. It's limited for storage for it's size.
2) - Video is adequate, yet falls short of something like the Zune HD. Like HD short.
3) - Playstations can do the above, and play developed bonafide games
4) - What kind of killer apps do you need, that a dedicated device... like say a translator can't do better?

I simply can't imagine any worthwhile application that operates properly without OTA data (aka NOT WiFi).

Thus, 2) It's outclassed in every single way

Alright, say you're OK with a redundant and outclassed device. What's left?

3) It's nice, thin, and sexy with great build quality and a fruit logo.

Alright, I'll give you that one. That's definitely worth dropping a couple of $hundred dollars on. If consumers realize #1 and #2, they must be buying it for #3.

And yes, I find #3 hilarious for the price of the device.

1. I have a phone, and need to rely on that battery to be good enough to make a 2 hour call if necessary. playing music on it all day wont happen, im too paranoid ill need the battery for actual phone use.

2. this is not a contest of manliness, if i feel i need to carry a few devices, that not a hit to my manhood. if you think that, mebbe you need a few years to mature before sinking your teeth into thoughts like these. i carry my laptop pretty much everywhere, and it has plenty of space for smaller gadgets. especially now that my secondary laptop is in my truck box instead of my main bag.

redundancy isnt really relevant to me, specificity is. if i want to use my phone and listen to music, ill talk while playing songs on either my laptop or my nano. i can also talk and play monster hunter on the psp if i feel like it.

the screen is decent on my phone, there are plenty of cool games for it but i still prefer to play on the psp when im killing time away from my laptop or desktop computers. further, it does basic web browsing decently enough, and has a bigger screen than my phone does. 9 times out of 10 my laptop is already set up, so ill use my work supplied 3g card to get online instead of my phone or psp anyway.

i dont really like the itouch or the iphone, but thats ok. there are plenty of people that do, and i can see why. they are neat little devices, just not for me. only reason i even have the nano (1st gen) is because i won it in a contest at a convention, otherwise id have dropped cash on a zuneHD. i do like their set up so far, and it plays well on my tv. i wass surprised at how good the audio transferred from the zune to tv and then to the stereo. its also kind of funny seeing the zune interface on a 65" tv, using the dock remote.

 

[BoberFett]

Can anyone point me in the direction of even an iPod Touch competitor with Android on it? To me it feels like there is just the Zune HD that competes with the iPod Touch, and from what I understand was just sort of tossed out to the market, and then left to languish.

http://www.archos.com/products/ht/archos_7/hdmulti.html

 

[simonizor]

http://www.archos.com/products/ht/archos_7/hdmulti.html

That's nice! It's not nearly as big as the iPad (good thing?), but it's much bigger than the iPod touch (1.3" bigger at 4.8"), and the price is very good, too.

:EDIT: @OP Browsing through Archos' site I found this. The Archos 9 PC Tablet. It's got Windows 7 Starter Edition on it and it's priced at $550. It's got a 1.2GHz processor and 1GB of RAM, so the specs are better than the iPad.

 

[TheWart]

That's nice! It's not nearly as big as the iPad (good thing?), but it's much bigger than the iPod touch (1.3" bigger at 4.8"), and the price is very good, too.

:EDIT: @OP Browsing through Archos' site I found this. The Archos 9 PC Tablet. It's got Windows 7 Starter Edition on it and it's priced at $550. It's got a 1.2GHz processor and 1GB of RAM, so the specs are better than the iPad.

Yea, except that those specs don't translate into good performance:

Unfortunately, nailing that recipe is apparently tougher than it looks, and the final result fully satisfies neither as a Windows PC nor as a handheld multimedia device. The most crippling design decision may be the choice of the 1.1GHz Intel Atom Z510 as the CPU. Though we've squeezed decent performance from the N270/N280 Atoms, as well as from the newer N450 version, any product we've tested with the slower Z-series Atom CPU has been frustratingly sluggish, and this is no exception.

Oh, and it is a resistive screen, so double fail.

 

[zerocool84]

Yea, except that those specs don't translate into good performance:


Oh, and it is a resistive screen, so double fail.

Who the f uses resistive screens any more? Seriously who the f does?

 

[BoberFett]

That's nice! It's not nearly as big as the iPad (good thing?), but it's much bigger than the iPod touch (1.3" bigger at 4.8"), and the price is very good, too.

:EDIT: @OP Browsing through Archos' site I found this. The Archos 9 PC Tablet. It's got Windows 7 Starter Edition on it and it's priced at $550. It's got a 1.2GHz processor and 1GB of RAM, so the specs are better than the iPad.

I personally would stay the hell away from a touch screen only Windows tablet. When I think of a tablet, it's a simple device with simple interfaces. Windows is not a simple interface. If you want a Windows tablet get a real laptop with a detachable touch screen so at least you have the option of using it either way.

I've also seen something about the Archos 8 which is very similar to the 7 but looks more like it's designed as something to keep around the house than a portable tablet like the 7. The 8 has a huge bezel, more like a digital picture frame so it would be less portable but might be more comfortable to hold and use.

http://www.wirelessgoodness.com/2010/05/26/the-android-powered-archos-8-home-tablet-hits-the-fcc/

 

[TheStu]

http://www.archos.com/products/ht/archos_7/hdmulti.html

I saw on the spec sheet that it has 2-8GB of capacity, plus the MicroSD.

Also, would it be upgradeable to Android 2.0+?

Other than that, not too bad looking. I don't really have any interest in one, I was just curious if they existed. I mean there are hundreds of iPod competitors, dozens if not hundreds of iPhone competitors, and the iPod Touch has been out for 3 years.

 

[BoberFett]

I have no idea, I don't own one, I've just been keeping an eye on non-Apple tablets.

 

[QueBert]

I know it's a few years old, but I'm working on somebodies Samsung Tablet right now that has Windows XP Tablet Edition on it. JESUS it sucks balls, they want me to make it better, I told them I can't perform miracles. It's one of the worst experiences I've ever had with a computer device. I don't possibly see how a Windows 7 version is going to be magically better. I'm sure it will be some what better, but this POS is just a POS. They'll have to pull a 180 for me to want a Windows Tablet.

 

[zerocool84]

I know it's a few years old, but I'm working on somebodies Samsung Tablet right now that has Windows XP Tablet Edition on it. JESUS it sucks balls, they want me to make it better, I told them I can't perform miracles. It's one of the worst experiences I've ever had with a computer device. I don't possibly see how a Windows 7 version is going to be magically better. I'm sure it will be some what better, but this POS is just a POS. They'll have to pull a 180 for me to want a Windows Tablet.

Just has been said before by many people on here many times, skinning a non-touch OS for touch sucks. That's why the iPad had iPhone OS and not dumb OSX and the lack of functionality the iPhone OS brings with it as well.

 

[MrX8503]

Just has been said before by many people on here many times, skinning a non-touch OS for touch sucks. That's why the iPad had iPhone OS and not dumb OSX and the lack of functionality the iPhone OS brings with it as well.

I completely agree with this. I think the problem that window tablets have been running into is that its trying to run a desktop os. The problems with this are:

Poor battery life
Slow
Interface built for a mouse
High Heat
Thicker form factor

I don't think all of these disadvantages are worth it to carry a full OS with you. I would just get a netbook instead.

Tablets need an OS that is very light, quick, and efficient. Unfortunately such a tablet OS doesn't exist, so the next best thing is to use a mobile OS. So we got iPhone OS, WebOS, and Android OS to choose from.

 

[BoberFett]

Those ARE tablet OSes. They started on phones, but smart phones are really just small tablets.

 

[JACKDRUID]

I was going to post this. If you're willing to get something that's a bit more thick than the iPad, you can get a netbook tablet for around $400. I think the iPad is a overhyped, underfeatured tablet anyways, so why not go with the a tablet that's fully featured.

exactly! I'm using Asus T91 and it works great for what i need... internet surfing, ebook reading, pdf reading, occasional remote desktop, programm etc

yes it supports flash and etc so i'm not restrcted to which website I can go to...

its 2x as thick as ipad (when folded as a tablet), but weighs only 2.1 lb.. has camera, usb, etc

I believe Leveno is making one as well...

* people, if you have not used a netbook tablet, try it out before you spur your "non-touch os for tablet sucks" "slow, high heat, thicker form factor" crap.

ipad is seriously overhyped, especially when it doesn't even support flash.

 

[QueBert]

exactly! I'm using Asus T91 and it works great for what i need... internet surfing, ebook reading, pdf reading, occasional remote desktop, programm etc

yes it supports flash and etc so i'm not restrcted to which website I can go to...

its 2x as thick as ipad (when folded as a tablet), but weighs only 2.1 lb.. has camera, usb, etc

I believe Leveno is making one as well...

* people, if you have not used a netbook tablet, try it out before you spur your "non-touch os for tablet sucks" "slow, high heat, thicker form factor" crap.

ipad is seriously overhyped, especially when it doesn't even support flash.

Well let's see, by your own admittance it's much thicker than an iPad, and while you didn't say anything. I'm sure it's slow as shit and runs hot. I'm on a Samsung tablet right now and I want to throw the thing thru the window. iPad might be overhyped but it's still clearly superior to any of the other tablets I've used. The Samsung I'm on is about $750, and while it does run a full blown OS, it's a POS and slower than shit. Almost unusable IMHO. Oh and the battery's rated at a whopping 4.5 hours.

 

[JACKDRUID]

Well let's see, by your own admittance it's much thicker than an iPad, and while you didn't say anything. I'm sure it's slow as shit and runs hot. I'm on a Samsung tablet right now and I want to throw the thing thru the window. iPad might be overhyped but it's still clearly superior to any of the other tablets I've used. The Samsung I'm on is about $750, and while it does run a full blown OS, it's a POS and slower than shit. Almost unusable IMHO. Oh and the battery's rated at a whopping 4.5 hours.

thickness really don't affect things too much as long as it is not too thick... netbook tablet is actually smaller in dimension than your ipad, has real keyboard, touch pad, usb , camera, etc.

its not slow, it runs the same as your typical netbook.

it does not run hot, actually it runs cooler than my friends' ipad for whatever reasons (better vent due to its thickness?)

ipad is good and browse web faster, it does web and ebook extremely well if you don't ever come across any site with ANY FLASH content. However, it is not a full os, so don't expect it to be used as your 2nd computer (loss in flexibility).

dude, i feel sorry for you for overpaying for your burning hot samsung tablet, read a few review, try them out before you dish out your money next time... asus t91/t91mt/t101 are below $500....

edit:

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-7-inch.../dp/B000TQ6HG6
lol is this your "samsung tablet"? lol
ya I would believe ipad is better than your samsung crap... LOL
its definately not the same as my t91 or the ipad, not even on the same level. get your fact straight next time when comparing products, then you might be more persuasive.

 

[TheWart]

I am glad you like your Asus T91, but having friend who owns one, I think you left out a few serious drawbacks when compared to the ipad: resistive touchscreen, much less battery life than iPad (~4 hours, confirmed by online reviews), slower performance from atom proc, and the touchscreen apps are not all that great.

 

[TwinsenTacquito]

I heard they're about to launch a new product over at www.cheapestfuckinglaptopyoucanfindwouldbe100timesbetter.com

 

[JACKDRUID]

I am glad you like your Asus T91, but having friend who owns one, I think you left out a few serious drawbacks when compared to the ipad: resistive touchscreen, much less battery life than iPad (~4 hours, confirmed by online reviews), slower performance from atom proc, and the touchscreen apps are not all that great.

read before you respond... I did say ipad is faster, and yes its battery last longer.

resistive touchscreen is way over hyped, the difference isn't that great after you use it for a while.

and please, before you comment, go to your friend and try it out, it ain't bad.

now, the downside of ipad...

1. NO FLASH
2. No camera
3. no usb
4. no built-in video out
5. no keyboard
6. no sd slot
7. not full os, so its less flexible and cannot act as a 2nd computer
8. compatibility problem reading some excel docs (understandable since its a microsoft product)
9. no touch pad
10.no pen input.

oh and it does't run my visual studio 2005, my sql server, my all kind of windows only crapware.

in the end, a lot of it is just preference and needs.


I was goiing to buy the ipad for web browsing/ ebook reading until I found out it doesn't / never will support flash, its way too limiting giving how flash content is used on web NOW.

t91 is way more flexible for me.