Discussion When will Putin invade?

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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,803
136
You saw what happened with the US stepped in to take the Taliban out of Afghanistan. 20 years and a total loss for the US. Loss of US lives, US money, and US credibility. And the Afghanis basically didn't do a thing to help in the fight. The west should not repeat this mistake over and over again. We should not be the world's police.

It sounds terribly cold to say it, but countries need to fight their own battles. When that happens, the US can step in and help. But not the other way around where the US steps in first.


I remember arguing this with a Republican (former) friend back when we were going into Afghanistan originally.

I CLEARLY RECALL being told I was "insane" and "stupid" for saying at the time that all it was, was money, resources and American lives right down the crapper and all we were doing was making things worse and that it was going to be another Vietnam.

How did that work out?
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,803
136
Excellent, I'm very happy for you. And well stated "MrSquisded" with nice talking points. No one here will change my views and I won't change yours for sure. Don't forget to vote people.


If you post controversial stuff but then refuse to defend your points with anything other then name-calling, you can't expect a whole lot of respect from anyone around here because you don't rate it. (remember if you can't explain it to a 5 year-old, you don't understand it yourself)

If you want to really "get" why America is well and truly fvcked just read the above quote a few times. What should matter here is getting to the truth in a way all of us will believe because ultimately that way we ALL win!

Think we'll get there if we can't even work out compromises anymore?

Unless we have some real change I doubt it. With so many of my fellow Americans having the historical education/understanding of 4th grader (at best) I just can't see it.

I predict that within 10 years at most our American "Democracy" is dead....

 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,803
136
You can change my mind if you have something to say. The day you stop learning and evolving you become just an automaton simulating life. I don't think either of us is there yet.


I completely agree with you here but the problem is that a significant portion of the GOP's leadership fully understands just how poorly educated most Americans are about how our current world-situation came about and worse they have zero issues taking advantage of that ignorance.

We are literally talking about many MILLIONS of Americans who base their opinions (and votes) on superstitious bull$hit fairy tales.

How can ANY rational person believe those folks "know best" ?!?
(the answer is most of the GOP "leaders" actually don't rotfl)
 
Reactions: dank69 and iRONic

GrumpyMan

Diamond Member
May 14, 2001
5,778
262
136
If you post controversial stuff but then refuse to defend your points with anything other then name-calling, you can't expect a whole lot of respect from anyone around here because you don't rate it. (remember if you can't explain it to a 5 year-old, you don't understand it yourself)

If you want to really "get" why America is well and truly fvcked just read the above quote a few times. What should matter here is getting to the truth in a way all of us will believe because ultimately that way we ALL win!

Think we'll get there if we can't even work out compromises anymore?

Unless we have some real change I doubt it. With so many of my fellow Americans having the historical education/understanding of 4th grader (at best) I just can't see it.

I predict that within 10 years at most our American "Democracy" is dead....

Wow, you really told me. You are quite superior. But personal attacks don't phase me. I have no idea what your rambling has to do with Putin and the Ukraine. Please don't cancel me. Vote Republican, save America.
 
Reactions: iRONic and Captante

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,803
136
Wow, you really told me. You are quite superior. But personal attacks don't phase me. I have no idea what your rambling has to do with Putin and the Ukraine. Please don't cancel me. Vote Republican, save America.

Why exactly should I or anyone else here care about your opinion Grumpy-BOY?

(that personal enough?)

You can't even make a point beyond "I'm right you're wrong" LOL.


BTW I'm anything but a "Libtard" as you so eloquently put it and beyond saying you don't rate respect when you fail to defend your points in any meaningful way I made no personal attacks. (until now)

Stupid people and super-rich people vote Republican.... which one are you?

 
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GrumpyMan

Diamond Member
May 14, 2001
5,778
262
136
You really are a gladiator with a keyboard! Kudos! And your impressive bolding of certain words is an inspiration to the Western world and media in general. Thank you Poopy-tante for your contribution today!
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,803
136
You really are a gladiator with a keyboard! Kudos! And your impressive bolding of certain words is an inspiration to the Western world and media in general. Thank you Poopy-tante for your contribution today!


Any time!

*(btw we all know it s/b CRAP-tante... get with the program!)


Seriously I've agreed with quite a few things you've posted in the past so I know you are actually not a complete idiot/troll usually.

What gives? **Too much P&N ?!?

(** bolded special just for you sweetie!)
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,860
20,184
136
Any time!

People are goners. They make grandiose claims, refuse to back them up, then finally throw out something that doesn't back it up, and then when you post hard numbers and data they call them talking points and dismiss them. And then post reveling in their ignorance. This is how civilizations crumble, when too many of these people exist and take over.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Lol....libtard. This is from CNN your favorite left leaning favorite news channel:

Blah blah blah stfu
While the poster you were engaged with might qualify for the distinction, there those who simply are not into the politcs paradigm.
I'm happy to be decoupled from such a foolish paradigm. Anyone who calls themselves a liberal or conservative are basically bitches to influencers from the media, lobbyists, and "upstairs"(usually the statesmen). Allowing the state to craft ones moral and ideal outlook is an indication of being tied up mentally and not having sufficient information to form a more nuanced outlook.

The pipeline has been presented as a boost to the oil supply, but the degree of what would have been supplied and whether the oil actually lands in domestic locations rather than exported out of the country indicates that it's nonexistence might not have "killed" US oil. In short, the actual changes to supply and demand matter quite a bit more complicated

Unlike some people, I'm more than happy to sift through biased sources for interesting information.
For example, https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/news/2014/11/19/who-really-benefits-from-keystone-xl
states:
So why are Democrats and President Obama so against the pipeline? It might be legitimate concerns over global warming and a genuine desire to wean Americans off fossil fuels. Or it might be the hundreds of millions in funding they receive from enviro-billionaires, such as Tom Steyer, an ex-hedge fund manager who made his fortunes selling coal to the Chinese. Steyer, who donated $75 million to the Democratic party last year, acts as an advisor to Obama, helping him set-up a $100 billion renewable energy program as part of the 2009 stimulus package. Conveniently, much of those billions have been funneled to Steyer's new company, EFW Capital, and many other green venture capitalist firms run by other Obama supporters.

Also, the pipeline would have affected numerous ranchers and farmers in the Midwest, who usually have a bit more of a "conservative" bent but didn't want the pipeline because contaminated water or a spill can screw up their business.
 
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MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,860
20,184
136
While the poster you were engaged with might qualify for the distinction, there those who simply are not into the politcs paradigm.
I'm happy to be decoupled from such a foolish paradigm. Anyone who calls themselves a liberal or conservative are basically bitches to influencers from the media, lobbyists, and "upstairs"(usually the statesmen). Allowing the state to craft ones moral and ideal outlook is an indication of being tied up mentally and not having sufficient information to form a more nuanced outlook.

The pipeline has been presented as a boost to the oil supply, but the degree of what would have been supplied and whether the oil actually lands in domestic locations rather than exported out of the country indicates that it's nonexistence might not have "killed" US oil. In short, the actual changes to supply and demand matter quite a bit more complicated

Unlike some people, I'm more than happy to sift through biased sources for interesting information.
For example, https://www.oilsandsmagazine.com/news/2014/11/19/who-really-benefits-from-keystone-xl
states:


Also, the pipeline would have affected numerous ranchers and farmers in the Midwest, who usually have a bit more of a "conservative" bent but didn't want the pipeline because contaminated water or a spill can screw up their business.


It's not MIGHT and it's not a " bit more complicated" The hard numbers show that the Keystone XL pipeline cancellation has definitely NOT killed US oil, never did anything remotely close to that at all, and in fact US oil production is in fact rising and trending back to record levels it hit shortly before Covid hit, not to mention it's primary goal was for Canadian Tar Sands product, not US crude. You are dancing around a bit too much here to appease an extremist and appear in the middle.

Also, relying less on fossil fuels is just smart policy - not only can it be more environmentally friendly to the Earth and our habitat, it can also insulate us from conflict such as what is going on now and the turbulence of international relations with unstable leaders and countries that control fossil fuel resources.
 

Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,305
10,803
136
Oil companies’ profits soared to $174bn this year as US gas prices rose

~ (theGuardian.com link)


Oh those poor POOR POOR oil companies!

Obviously D-E-A-D dead!


(more like screwing American motorists and the environment over by price-gouging for record-profits)



And I feel JUST AWFUL for the car companies too!

Ford made $10 billion in 2021, including $2 billion in 4th quarter

GM reports $14.3 billion in 2021 earnings despite COVID-19, chip shortage

Stellantis (Chrysler-Fiat) reports $15 billion in profits in 2021
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
It's not MIGHT and it's not a " bit more complicated" The hard numbers show that the Keystone XL pipeline cancellation has definitely NOT killed US oil, which is in fact rising back to record levels it hit shortly before Covid hit, not to mention it's primary goal was for Canadian Tar Sands product, not US crude. You are dancing around a bit too much here to appease an extremist and appear in the middle
I habitually use "might" in circumstances where I think my personal knowledge or expertise is not deep enough and leave the door open to corrections down the line. The first two links would support the point that the loss wasn't that much.
Also, while the explicit point of Grumpy is that Biden killed oil, there is an implicit, more general point behind Grumpyman's post is that our supplies(and thus current prices) are messed up because of Keystone, which also is not true. It's OPEC holding back production.

I'm not a habitual moderate. I might wind up in full agreement on one side or another at times, or even find both problematic. Or even sometimes, no one looks at particular information that's mundane and obvious.

I am fully decoupled from the low-end narratives the media companies try to push forward. But, I will read articles but with a proper understanding of the manipulations journalists often employ.

I also don't think my first sentence was exactly kind to him or anyone else. It essence is that he and many others have to look a little more deeply than his initial superficial statement.
 
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Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
Oil companies’ profits soared to $174bn this year as US gas prices rose

~ (theGuardian.com link)


Oh those poor POOR POOR oil companies!

Obviously D-E-A-D dead!


(more like screwing American motorists and the environment over by price-gouging for record-profits)



And I feel JUST AWFUL for the car companies too!

Ford made $10 billion in 2021, including $2 billion in 4th quarter

GM reports $14.3 billion in 2021 earnings despite COVID-19, chip shortage

Stellantis (Chrysler-Fiat) reports $15 billion in profits in 2021
Venezuela is getting a nice influx of money too.
 
Reactions: Captante

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,528
5,944
136
Per the Guardian, there is another banking system via China. Europe needs Russian oil/gas. I doubt Putin doesn't have this figured out. He gets Ukraine and China swipes Taiwan. Between the 2 of them, do they really need the rest of us? Serious Q because I have no idea. Global economics ain't my thing.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,476
27,749
136
Per the Guardian, there is another banking system via China. Europe needs Russian oil/gas. I doubt Putin doesn't have this figured out. He gets Ukraine and China swipes Taiwan. Between the 2 of them, do they really need the rest of us? Serious Q because I have no idea. Global economics ain't my thing.
Russia’s economy is about half the size of California’s economy, or was. Probably a bit smaller today than two days ago.
 

highland145

Lifer
Oct 12, 2009
43,528
5,944
136
Russia’s economy is about half the size of California’s economy, or was. Probably a bit smaller today than two days ago.
But could they self sustain with China. Per above, no idea. The US couldn't in the short run. Go back to 1900 and we could. Today, we just don't make enough of our essentials. Meds, for example.
 
Reactions: Captante

MrSquished

Lifer
Jan 14, 2013
21,860
20,184
136
But could they self sustain with China. Per above, no idea. The US couldn't in the short run. Go back to 1900 and we could. Today, we just don't make enough of our essentials. Meds, for example.

So you think it would be smart for China to align itself with an economy half the size of California and cause a rift with the $$$ of the European and US markets?
 

13Gigatons

Diamond Member
Apr 19, 2005
7,461
500
126
Per the Guardian, there is another banking system via China. Europe needs Russian oil/gas. I doubt Putin doesn't have this figured out. He gets Ukraine and China swipes Taiwan. Between the 2 of them, do they really need the rest of us? Serious Q because I have no idea. Global economics ain't my thing.

China would collapse without people buying their exports....most countries are intertwined with each other today. China collapsing would cause the World economy to go into a tailspin.
 
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