When will we ever learn???

[brandonbull]

Originally posted by: CPA
Root cause? Oh, you mean the fact that the West hasn't exterminated all Christians and forced strict Islamic law on it's citizens.

More like we lived off cheap ME oil far too long and the West needs to reform that habit and put these idiots out of business and back to shuttling spices across the desert on camels.

 

[Todd33]

if you have to condition a legitimate statement with "I am pro US all the way but " then you are afraid of your own kind, which serves you right.

So I must ask....

Why do you hate America?

Why do you hate the troops?

Are you more concerned with the terrorist than with Americans?

Dumb huh?

 

[KlokWyze]

Originally posted by: bobdelt

Originally posted by: CPA
Root cause? Oh, you mean the fact that the West hasn't exterminated all Christians and forced strict Islamic law on it's citizens.

QFT.

For you liberals out there that dont know this and just like to blame everything on Bush, Terrorism started before Bush, and is a problem to all Western countries. A little fact most of you like to ignore.

Also, dont you think Syria has incentive for our embassys not be attacked? Dont you think that tourism in their country would be highly affected and make US relations worse, which would have a tremendous economic impact of their country.

As much as these arab countries may hate us, they still love us for our money. You can even use US dollars in Iran, and can sometimes even be preferred.

Terrorism has been around for thousands of years. The United States is the biggest support of terrorism in the world from either side of the partisan politcal spectrum.

From the right: America's occupational presence, pro-Israeli policy and constant "collateral" damage that kills more innocent civilians than "terrorists" thus fueling more and more hatred for further insurgency.

From the left: We over there illegally and are ourselves the terrorists invading a quasi 3rd world country.

How do you really know how they feel? You know all "A-rabs" feel? You really think that WANT war instead of a decent future for their children?

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: bobdelt

Originally posted by: CPA
Root cause? Oh, you mean the fact that the West hasn't exterminated all Christians and forced strict Islamic law on it's citizens.

QFT.

For you liberals out there that dont know this and just like to blame everything on Bush, Terrorism started before Bush, and is a problem to all Western countries. A little fact most of you like to ignore.

Also, dont you think Syria has incentive for our embassys not be attacked? Dont you think that tourism in their country would be highly affected and make US relations worse, which would have a tremendous economic impact of their country.

As much as these arab countries may hate us, they still love us for our money. You can even use US dollars in Iran, and can sometimes even be preferred.

You conservative (and I am one as well )like to ignore is the 20th century Imperialism by the Western powers including the creation of Israel (which I am on the fence about). I am not a "Liberal" but a registered conservative Republican and I am most definitely pro two-state solution (Israel/Palestine) and I think the blame for terrorism lies only on the terrorists but your naive view of American foreign policy hypocrisy should be examined. Saudi Arabia our great ally is a rather horrid human rights abuser just to name one example. Many in the Islamic world hate the Saudi Monarchy and looks at our alliance with them as proof that they are giving in to Imperialists at best and our puppets at worst. We turn a blind eye to them (and China and other countries) because it is not in our economic interests to interfere with them. Do you think the terrorists would be more or less active if we hadn't invaded Iraq? Do you think Iran or Iraq or N. Korea had greater control of WMD's at the time of our invasion of Iraq? Saddam under at least some cursory UN observation the previous years or N. Korea and Iran with none? Why invade Iraq instead of Iran and N. Korea the more powerful axis of evil partners of terrorism? Think about it? Remember, Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

Islam is in a war with the West because it perceives the West is at war with them. Israel and Iraq being two examples of such. (With Afghanistan as an adjunct). Until we lessen our need on foreign (Middle Eastern) oil and can ignore that region (insofar as to not need a pipeline) we will continue to promote policies in our economic interest that may be at odds with our human ones. I fully supported the President's war in Afghanistan because of the direct links to Bin Laden by the Taliban but the invasion of Iraq was a terrorist's recruiter's dream. We must stay the course in Iraq (we must not abandon the people or our troops and cutting and running solves nothing) but an honest examination of our Middle Eastern policy hypocricy can't hurt.

Islamic fundamentalism must be faced I agree with that. The root causes though should be examined. If they, the fundamentalists, simply expound "death to Israel" then there can be no dialogue. If the President of Iran states, "we will make nukes regardless and Israel should be wiped off the map," I agree no dialogue can take place but after we pull out of Iraq an honest examination of our foreign policy and its appeasing of some dicators/monarchies while invading others should come into play.

Do you think if we didn't need/rely on Middle Eastern oil we would have invaded Iraq after 9/11? I am not stating yes or no but it is an interesting hypothetical nonetheless. Would Saddam have been just another despot who abuses his citizens (ie China, Sudan, Rwanda, Saudi Arabia, N. Korea) or would we have invaded anyway. I think we wouldn't have invaded but that is just my opinion. Until Israel is no more or there is a two state coexistence of Israel/Palestine there won't be an end to "terrorists" and I don't advocate an end to Israel so ...


Of course, my little diatribe here is incomplete and cursory at best but a tech site forum is only going to get a few paragraphs from me anyway :laugh:

 

[imported_michaelpatrick33]

Originally posted by: KlokWyze

Originally posted by: bobdelt

Originally posted by: CPA
Root cause? Oh, you mean the fact that the West hasn't exterminated all Christians and forced strict Islamic law on it's citizens.

QFT.

For you liberals out there that dont know this and just like to blame everything on Bush, Terrorism started before Bush, and is a problem to all Western countries. A little fact most of you like to ignore.

Also, dont you think Syria has incentive for our embassys not be attacked? Dont you think that tourism in their country would be highly affected and make US relations worse, which would have a tremendous economic impact of their country.

As much as these arab countries may hate us, they still love us for our money. You can even use US dollars in Iran, and can sometimes even be preferred.

Terrorism has been around for thousands of years. The United States is the biggest support of terrorism in the world from either side of the partisan politcal spectrum.

From the right: America's occupational presence, pro-Israeli policy and constant "collateral" damage that kills more innocent civilians than "terrorists" thus fueling more and more hatred for further insurgency.

From the left: We over there illegally and are ourselves the terrorists invading a quasi 3rd world country.

How do you really know how they feel? You know all "A-rabs" feel? You really think that WANT war instead of a decent future for their children?

My stepfather was born and raised in Pakistan as a Muslim and remained one until the day he died and he told me about his experiences there. (I also spent time in Tibet, Nepal, China and Pakistan). He hated the people there and left as quickly as possible. He told me to him they were as a group (mob mentality) seething with rage with hypocritical laws and actions (Just around the corner from where I was staying was a liquor store for "foreigners" only to give an example).

By the way my stepfather was gentlest and most intelligent man I ever met. He was practicing medicine by twenty. Does his opinion mean I can extrapolate his views to all Pakistanis and "Arabs" as being that way? No, but his disdain for his fellow countrymen and woman coupled with the time I spent there (and the undercurrent of tribal brutality that I felt and saw) does lead me to examine whether Islamic extremism is a very small percentage of the population and/or whether it has sympathy from a larger part. Interesting questions.

Do I think the average "Arab" (not all Middle Easterners are "Arabs" :laugh: go to Tehran and start calling people Arabic and see what happens ) want war? No more than the average Westerner does, however, I witnessed a propensity for extremism and an underlying current of rage during my time in Pakistan that was troubling from a Westerner's point of view. Terrorism is based upon personal ego and not spiritual faith in Islam (the Jihad is just a book excuse to due horrible deeds like Hitler and the many who have died in the name of Christ) and the words of the prophets have been twisted by a patriarchal/hiearchal tribal societies (small percentage of population) to justify their own violence. Does this make what the West has done this last century right in all facets of their collective foreign policy? Nope.

The only answer in my eyes for America is to end Middle Eastern oil dependence and to help in any way possible to broker a two state region Palestine/Israel. Then maybe progress can be made.

 

[ProfJohn]

Originally posted by: smack Down
Hit back? Wouldn't any attack from use be more like the first strike.
The only message bomb syria would give to Iran is bush is to scarred to attack Iran.
Didn't israel already make a fool out of itself once. I don't think another bombing campagina would go over to well.

You simply hate muslism and are looking for any reason to bomb a few.

Nice way to completely avoid my argument and instead attack me as a person.
I do not hate Muslims, I live and work in Orlando and there is a rather large Muslim population and have had many Muslim friends.

Maybe you don't understand that my entire post was conjecture, things that MIGHT happen and reasons for why Syria MIGHT be worried.

Obviously you hate professors and are looking for any excuse to attack them. :roll:

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: CPA
Root cause? Oh, you mean the fact that the West hasn't exterminated all Christians and forced strict Islamic law on it's citizens.

This would be the ultimate goal of Islam: To rule the entire world under Islamic Law.

The BS is really flowing waist deep in this thread.

 

[blackllotus]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: CPA
Root cause? Oh, you mean the fact that the West hasn't exterminated all Christians and forced strict Islamic law on it's citizens.

This would be the ultimate goal of Islam: To rule the entire world under Islamic Law.

Don't be so shallow. Islam is not at all unique when it comes to producing radicals that would love to force their religion on everyone else in the world. Nowadays Christianity has been fairly good at keeping its views in line. Radical outcroppings are generally shunned by the mainstream and rarely make significant progress. The opposite is true with Islam. There is no overwhelming centralized/mainstream view to keep its followers in check, and radical groups are able to sit and fester until they gain enough momentum to get political power (like Hamas and Hezbollah). Even those groups that don't go for political power (like Al-Queda in Iraq) rarely have their members revealed by fellow citizens. The problem is not with Islam itself, but rather with its leadership structure.

 

[AndrewR]

Originally posted by: conehead433
According to Dubya, who couldn't possibly ever be wrong, the Syrians are in bed with members of the axis of evil. If they did something to help us they are just trying to gain our trust before sticking it in our backs.

Because IRANIAN C-802 cruise missiles just appeared in the hands of Hezbullah in Lebanon. Syria couldn't have possibly facilitated the transfer of arms to a terrorist organization from one of the world's rogue states...

Regardless of your opinion of the current administration, it's a FACT that Syria abets terrorism. Ironically enough, they have their own problems with Islamic militants as well.

 

[daniel49]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: CPA
Root cause? Oh, you mean the fact that the West hasn't exterminated all Christians and forced strict Islamic law on it's citizens.

This would be the ultimate goal of Islam: To rule the entire world under Islamic Law.

The BS is really flowing waist deep in this thread.

just say a couple of allah akbars and move on.