Where do we expect gas prices to be later this month, now that election is over?

[AntiHypocrite]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks have no problem polarizing one another in a thread like this. The OP asked a simple question and very few people took the time to consider a simple answer. The "parties" are not our friends. In fact, the cost of living in the US clearly demonstrates that they could care less about about the average working person in this country...and, for those who believe that "electric" means "oil fee," you really should get a primer on how electricity is generated in the first place and, just as importantly, on the power grid that distributes it. It might also be helpful to read up on how electrical storage devices are affected by changes in temperature. The US is a big landmass and, consequently, there are substantial temperature variations from one end of the country to other. Let the weak-minded labelling begin!

 

[Paratus]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks have no problem polarizing one another in a thread like this. The OP asked a simple question and very few people took the time to consider a simple answer. The "parties" are not our friends. In fact, the cost of living in the US clearly demonstrates that they could care less about about the average working person in this country...and, for those who believe that "electric" means "oil fee," you really should get a primer on how electricity is generated in the first place and, just as importantly, on the power grid that distributes it. It might also be helpful to read up on how electrical storage devices are affected by changes in temperature. The US is a big landmass and, consequently, there are substantial temperature variations from one end of the country to other. Let the weak-minded labelling begin!

This right here is a bunch of fud. We’ve got both sides. We’ve got ignorance. We’ve got projection.

It’s very impressive. I’ll just say take your own advice and learn about how the power grid works, how it’s been changing and learn about each party so you are capable of discerning the obvious differences.

 

[sandorski]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks have no problem polarizing one another in a thread like this. The OP asked a simple question and very few people took the time to consider a simple answer. The "parties" are not our friends. In fact, the cost of living in the US clearly demonstrates that they could care less about about the average working person in this country...and, for those who believe that "electric" means "oil fee," you really should get a primer on how electricity is generated in the first place and, just as importantly, on the power grid that distributes it. It might also be helpful to read up on how electrical storage devices are affected by changes in temperature. The US is a big landmass and, consequently, there are substantial temperature variations from one end of the country to other. Let the weak-minded labelling begin!

The whole country is the same Temp 10ft down.

 

[Pohemi]

So you prefer environmental fascism to further the goal of stripping away peoples right to choose?

"So you prefer ruining the lantern oil industry for this dark witchery?!?!?!!1"

Funny how conservatives have been crying so hard about Dems using the word 'fascism' to describe them trying to overthrow democracy, and yet they will claim Dems are fascist simply for wanting societal progress because BothSides and feels.

Typical.

 

[brycejones]

It never ceases to amaze me how folks have no problem polarizing one another in a thread like this. The OP asked a simple question and very few people took the time to consider a simple answer. The "parties" are not our friends. In fact, the cost of living in the US clearly demonstrates that they could care less about about the average working person in this country...and, for those who believe that "electric" means "oil fee," you really should get a primer on how electricity is generated in the first place and, just as importantly, on the power grid that distributes it. It might also be helpful to read up on how electrical storage devices are affected by changes in temperature. The US is a big landmass and, consequently, there are substantial temperature variations from one end of the country to other. Let the weak-minded labelling begin!

Is this a parody account?

 

[sandorski]

Not sure if you're being dense on purpose or if you're truly deluded enough to believe democrats are dragging us to the past.

Biden, and democrats, are dragging republicans towards the future. This is a fact. Unless the argument uses outright falsehoods, there is no logical argument against the fact that Biden and the democratic party are dragging everyone towards the future. Policies to upgrade the nations infrastructure (opposed by Republicans), and towards reduced use of fossil fuels is the future everywhere, not just the USA.

The republicans are kicking and screaming and throwing a tantrum like a 5 year old over it, but everyone will advance towards the future, or they can join the Amish.

Like the Amish, but ok with all Technology up to 4G.

 

[Pohemi]

Like the Amish, but ok with all Technology up to 4G.

And NO Jewish space lasers!

 

[FelixDeCat]

"So you prefer ruining the lantern oil industry for this dark witchery?!?!?!!1"

Funny how conservatives have been crying so hard about Dems using the word 'fascism' to describe them trying to overthrow democracy, and yet they will claim Dems are fascist simply for wanting societal progress because BothSides and feels.

Typical.

You mischaractized my post. And it It appears not even a hybrid solution is acceptable to you even though there is clearly not enough resources to give everyone an electric car ....thus making them have to take mass transit (and no sane person wants that!)

Look, I like clean air and water just like the guy next to me, but we cant go around like totalitarian left wing regimes forcing choices on people. Thats un-American!

 

[FelixDeCat]

Let's try that line with any other dangerous substance, shall we?

Reducing the use of carcinogens is all fine and dandy, but give people the choice not the lack thereof.

Yep, doesn't work.

I remember this very same mindset in the 70s with the mandate of catalytic converters and unleaded gasoline. People said the exact same thing you're saying.

Same with tobacco smoke.

No. Just no. Just as with any other pollution, the use of fossil fuels does not just affect you.

I grew up in the 70s. I remember all the smokers stinking up places when I was just trying to mind my own bidness. (oddly no mention of weed smoke, I oppose that too)

I also remember those stinky cars and buses on the road that ran on carburetors, with no fuel injection and no emission control. They were pretty bad.

In fact, I have gotten so spoiled to clean air, every time I get behind a car from the 1970s and older, I cant believe how noxious there tailpipe emissions are. They almost overwhelm my charcoal air filter!

So we have come a long way. We should strive to improve on existing combustion technology by adding battery components to extend range vs going 100% electric when we are not ready yet.

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

>> initiated with the a government mandated Voltwagon. I think there are few

Got to say that I LOVE the name 'voltwagon'. However, I hate the idea of a government mandated vehicle. Would everyone be forced to buy 1? What if it's not a good match for a family? Would single people also be forced to buy one, even though it seats 8? What if bad assumptions are made in the design that are quickly bypassed by advances in other vehicles out there in the market?

My uncle (a farmer) recently got into a discussion with a fellow at a restaurant who was driving a Tesla. He had overheard the driver telling someone how the Tesla didn't pollute. My uncle pointed out to him that at least a portion of the electricity near here is generated by the large coal burning power plants near the Ohio River, so if he 'filled up' nearby, then he was essentially running on coal.

The Tesla driver became livid, kept saying "No I'm NOT!", and when my uncle kept telling him to think about it, that if the electricity comes from coal, & he recharges the car from that electricity, that the car's power comes from coal .... the driver eventually just told my Uncle that he didn't want to talk to him any more.

So when faced with an inconvenient truth, the Tesla driver became angry and decided to ignore facts. Do the majority of EV drivers think that none of our electricity comes from fossil fuels?

 

[Brainonska511]

So when faced with an inconvenient truth, the Tesla driver became angry and decided to ignore facts. Do the majority of EV drivers think that none of our electricity comes from fossil fuels?

This has been covered thousands of times here and elsewhere, but powerplants are far more efficient converting fuel into energy compared to an ICE. So even if the power was 100% from coal, it will still be better than an ICE.

 

[brycejones]

This has been covered thousands of times here and elsewhere, but powerplants are far more efficient converting fuel into energy compared to an ICE. So even if the power was 100% from coal, it will still be better than an ICE.

The question is will the OP just ignore that fact?

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

>It might also be helpful to read up on how electrical storage devices are >affected by changes in temperature.

No kidding - and also consider the fact that in places that get a lot of cold & snow, not only do the batteries themselves have less available power due to chemistry/physics, but users would be putting a LOT more demand on them for defrosting windows, heating the interior, etc.

Without about a 30% increase in battery energy density, I just don't see how the current generation of electrical vehicles would ever work out for families here in the Midwest.

Plus, to actually make the electric vehicles benefit the environment, a lot of new green nuclear power plants would need to be built.

 

[iRONic]

Holy shit. Your poor family…

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

ICE. So even if the power was 100% from coal, it will still be better than an ICE.
[/QUOTE

The question is will the OP just ignore that fact?

'better' is quite open to interpretation, considering that it is a qualitative observation, not quantitative. Is it better for the people mining underground, who get black lung disease, as part of removing the coal? Is it better for the environment, considering that coal mining causes a lot more disruption to ecology?

For example, much of the 'waste' heat is not wasted at all around here - folks use it to heat up the car & melt off snow & ice before they can get it going. I'm guessing that would use up 20% to 25% of the battery charge doing the same, greatly decreasing the actual efficiency rating.

 

[vi edit]

>It might also be helpful to read up on how electrical storage devices are >affected by changes in temperature.

No kidding - and also consider the fact that in places that get a lot of cold & snow, not only do the batteries themselves have less available power due to chemistry/physics, but users would be putting a LOT more demand on them for defrosting windows, heating the interior, etc.

Without about a 30% increase in battery energy density, I just don't see how the current generation of electrical vehicles would ever work out for families here in the Midwest.

Plus, to actually make the electric vehicles benefit the environment, a lot of new green nuclear power plants would need to be built.

So I lived in the Midwest. Eastern Iowa & Central IL. Nearly every single midwest homeowner has a garage. It's just something you have with that much open space. With EV's if you keep them in a garage and plugged in they will pre-condition the battery and mitigate much of that. Sure if you park it outside and don't do any conditioning you are going to see a reduced capacity. I own an EV and live in the PNW and even in the low 30's to 40's I see a decent drop in capacity parking outside. Instead of 270 miles of range when full it's more like 210. That's with no conditioning.

If you are just driving to work and back most days it's a non-event. You are just plugging in every day. Whatever. No big deal.

As for relating to ICE vehicles, well that ICE engine will only ever be as efficient as the day you bought it. It's never going to get better. I'm on 100% renewable energy in PNW. Mostly hydro, but some wind and solar. Electric cars can always get more efficient through gains and sustainability measures made on the power companies part. It *can* actually get greener a year later if your power source gets greener. ICE will never see that.

And lets not ignore the impact cold weather has on ICE too. I've idled cold cars, seen how shitty mileage is in the dead of winter when it's 10 below. ICE takes a hit too. And I can't run my ICE car in the garage safely to warm it up.

 

[iRONic]

All those keystrokes wasted…

 

[Pohemi]

You mischaractized my post. And it It appears not even a hybrid solution is acceptable to you

I mischaracterized nothing, and you projected it back on me in your next sentence. I never said what is or isn't acceptable to me, so you are straw-manning AGAIN. Shocker.

Look, I like clean air and water just like the guy next to me, but we cant go around like totalitarian left wing regimes forcing choices on people. Thats un-American!

'I pretend to appreciate environmental cleanliness, but I won't vote for it. If anyone wants to protect the environment, they're obviously totalitarian socialist communist lizard pizza pedophile criminal-lovers and police-defunders!'

(oddly no mention of weed smoke, I oppose that too)

Shocker.

So we have come a long way. We should strive to improve on existing combustion technology by adding battery components to extend range vs going 100% electric when we are not ready yet.

No, we haven't.
We've come SOME way. We switched to unleaded gas and went to injection instead of carburetion. We've made ICEs more economical, despite rethugs constantly trying to kill legislation for fuel efficiency standards for the same reason you keep crying about: fReEdUmBs!! 'I want my truck to use 4 gallons per mile of diesel! iT's mAh gOd-GiVeN rIgHt aS An aMeRiCaN!'

No kidding - and also consider the fact that in places that get a lot of cold & snow, not only do the batteries themselves have less available power due to chemistry/physics, but users would be putting a LOT more demand on them for defrosting windows, heating the interior, etc.

Without about a 30% increase in battery energy density, I just don't see how the current generation of electrical vehicles would ever work out for families here in the Midwest.

Plus, to actually make the electric vehicles benefit the environment, a lot of new green nuclear power plants would need to be built.

So places that drop below 70F will ruin the entire EV industry because it's not as if we can weatherize batteries. Got it.

And people that use accessories in their EVs will ruin the entire EV industry because it uses the batteries that shouldn't be used! Okay, got it.

And finally, anywhere that isn't a few blocks away is too far for EVs, so we should stop developing them, stop trying to incorporate infrastructure like public chargers, etc.

I mean...I know conservatives by definition stand against change and progress, but do you always have to be dishonest about WHY?

 

[brycejones]

The question is will the OP just ignore that fact?

ICE. So even if the power was 100% from coal, it will still be better than an ICE.
[/QUOTE


'better' is quite open to interpretation, considering that it is a qualitative observation, not quantitative. Is it better for the people mining underground, who get black lung disease, as part of removing the coal? Is it better for the environment, considering that coal mining causes a lot more disruption to ecology?

For example, much of the 'waste' heat is not wasted at all around here - folks use it to heat up the car & melt off snow & ice before they can get it going. I'm guessing that would use up 20% to 25% of the battery charge doing the same, greatly decreasing the actual efficiency rating.

narrator:

He did.

 

[JD50]

>> initiated with the a government mandated Voltwagon. I think there are few

Got to say that I LOVE the name 'voltwagon'. However, I hate the idea of a government mandated vehicle. Would everyone be forced to buy 1? What if it's not a good match for a family? Would single people also be forced to buy one, even though it seats 8? What if bad assumptions are made in the design that are quickly bypassed by advances in other vehicles out there in the market?

My uncle (a farmer) recently got into a discussion with a fellow at a restaurant who was driving a Tesla. He had overheard the driver telling someone how the Tesla didn't pollute. My uncle pointed out to him that at least a portion of the electricity near here is generated by the large coal burning power plants near the Ohio River, so if he 'filled up' nearby, then he was essentially running on coal.

The Tesla driver became livid, kept saying "No I'm NOT!", and when my uncle kept telling him to think about it, that if the electricity comes from coal, & he recharges the car from that electricity, that the car's power comes from coal .... the driver eventually just told my Uncle that he didn't want to talk to him any more.

So when faced with an inconvenient truth, the Tesla driver became angry and decided to ignore facts. Do the majority of EV drivers think that none of our electricity comes from fossil fuels?

Your Uncle sounds like a fucking moron

 

[Meghan54]

>It might also be helpful to read up on how electrical storage devices are >affected by changes in temperature.

No kidding - and also consider the fact that in places that get a lot of cold & snow, not only do the batteries themselves have less available power due to chemistry/physics, but users would be putting a LOT more demand on them for defrosting windows, heating the interior, etc.

Without about a 30% increase in battery energy density, I just don't see how the current generation of electrical vehicles would ever work out for families here in the Midwest.

Plus, to actually make the electric vehicles benefit the environment, a lot of new green nuclear power plants would need to be built.

Golly!!!! Maybe you need to alert the various auto manufacturers of all these problems! You just might save the day!!!! Obviously no one has even thought about those problems, have they?


ROFL!!!

 

[vi edit]

Personally, I think some form of plug in hybrid or more develop of efficient ICE based range extenders is really the way forward. At least until we manage to defeat a lot of chemistry, rare material and physics challenges we don't have answers for yet.

As battery tech starts to get better and if solid state tech ever comes to fruition, getting a much smaller and lighter physical battery changes design and space requirements. I don't know what the magic number is, but we're not far off. PHEV's like the Rav4 Prime are already pushing close to 50 miles on battery alone. That's perfect for a lot of people on a daily basis. And when you need to travel further you still have a gas engine to get you there. Rav4 can push close to 500 miles of range in hybrid mode. Stuff like that is really what should be the real development to get us through the next 10-15 years as battery tech catches up.

 

[desy]

Because battery technology won't improve? its doubled in a decade so there is 100%Batteries
You know fossil fuel is getting harder and harder to source and annual finds aren't keeping up?
Change now while we can or fail miserably in the future

 

[GunsMadeAmericaFree]

>>Golly!!!! Maybe you need to alert the various auto manufacturers of all these >>problems! You just might save the day!!!! Obviously no one has even thought >>about those problems, have they?

I don't need to - I think people will vote with their wallets, ultimately. Once one of the technologies beats out gasoline handily, it will eventually be adopted.

Some of us environmentalists believe that before that can happen, though, that a new generation of nuclear power plant needs to become widespread.

 

[JWade]

Care to provide that quote? Doubt he really said that

he said it while campaigning for the NY Governor, here is a forbes article. I know, chances are he just simply mispoke

Biden Promises ‘No More Drilling’ Just Days After Demanding More Drilling (forbes.com)