Where does the Netanyuhu claim of defenseable borders go?

[Craig234]

That's what he said in the first place, which his political opponents attempted to obfuscate.

Problem is, if Obama says 1967 borders should be a 'starting point in negotiations', two minutes into the negotiations they were given up 3 minutes ago.

 

[woolfe9999]

I've often wondered (and posted about it) why we (the USA and rest of the world) don't focus our efforts on improving the infrastructure of the Palestinians. We could train them and employ them in improving their water, sewer and utilities etc.

People in decent living conditions and employed generally don't run around firing rockets at others.

Only after their environment was improved would I even bother with the solution to their state and borders.

Fern

Here's another answer: we and the rest of the world have given them many billions for just those purposes, and they have received much outside consultation and help, and they still are. Some of it has actually gone to improve the infrustructure to a degree. As for what has happened to the bulk of it - you'll need to conduct a seance so that you can ask Arafat's ghost.

 

[Tom]

African americans didnt have full equal rights until the civil rights movement.

you stated a democracy is only so once there is equality without discrimination of race, religion, or sex.

so, by your logic, were we not a democracy until the 1960s?


Israel granted full equal rights to all of its citizens before the united states did (1948 vs 1960s)

I did not state what you say I stated. As to the comparison with Israel, as of now, any human born in the United States is a full citizen of the United States. Is that the case in Israel ?

 

[Nebor]

Here's another answer: we and the rest of the world have given them many billions for just those purposes, and they have received much outside consultation and help, and they still are. Some of it has actually gone to improve the infrustructure to a degree. As for what has happened to the bulk of it - you'll need to conduct a seance so that you can ask Arafat's ghost.

Yup. You're dealing with a people that never get tired of making war.

 

[JEDIYoda]

As to the comparison with Israel, as of now, any human born in the United States is a full citizen of the United States. Is that the case in Israel ?

What does it matter?? Children born from Illegals in America are considered American Citizens.......but thats going to change I believe.....so what exactly is your point??

 

[Zebo]

Yup. You're dealing with a people that never get tired of making war.

This naive talk about a "solution" is just insulting to anyone's intelligence who understands those inoculated with Islam. These glib formulations does not withstand scrutiny of belief systems and history not to mention what they state quite openly.

 

[Freshgeardude]

I did not state what you say I stated. As to the comparison with Israel, as of now, any human born in the United States is a full citizen of the United States. Is that the case in Israel ?

yes, anyone born inside israels borders are considered citizens.

anyone outside of those borders are not.

 

[EagleKeeper]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes there are problems on Israeli borders. The Israeli military occupation of Lebanon is what led to the rise of Hezbollah. Syria likewise hates Israeli for its occupation of the Golan heights.
Even if I and many others think the Assad dictatorship has to go, any more democratic Syrian Government that replaces Assad, will still be hostile to Israel.

In short CC, the giant Israeli problem is that its done nothing to make any local mid-east friends. And instead has relied on it military hegemony to permit Israel to be nothing but a regional bully.

At what point should Israel stopped trying to defend itself and let the Arabs/Palestinians had their way with murdering citizens in shopping malls and on airliners or foreign activities away from Israel.

The Arabs have been attacking Israel since '48 up through '91.
They have threatened to attack using WMD afterwards.
They have continued to attack Israel via proxies.
The Palestinians have been attacking Israel for existing for the past 50 years.

So when in Israel's history has she had a chance for peace; to turn swords into plow shares?

Everytime there is an attack from her enemies; it only reenforces that she can not let down her guard.

The protests just this month where there were Palestinians/Arab calling for the destruction of Israel. Those rallies have been the start of previous infadas (sp).

You expect Israel to just ignore them?

What friendship has been offered by the Arab neighbors.

• Jordan is luke warm - only because of ass whupping.
• Egypt was (who knows now) luke warm - because of ass whupping and US bribes.
• Syria is still in a state of war - they have been ass whupped and also embarrassed by Israeli military demonstrating the Syrian air defense incompetence.
• Lebanon is a country in civil war, previously controlled by the PLO until ass whupped by Israel and now controlled by Syria.

The US tells Israel to stand down and accept missile attacks from Iraq as so to not upset the Arab coalition in '91.
What other country would show such restraint - yet the Arab world still wants Israel gone.

 

[Freshgeardude]

Here's another answer: we and the rest of the world have given them many billions for just those purposes, and they have received much outside consultation and help, and they still are. Some of it has actually gone to improve the infrustructure to a degree. As for what has happened to the bulk of it - you'll need to conduct a seance so that you can ask Arafat's ghost.

not to mention, a lot of that infrastructure that was built, namely in gaza, was used by hamas to launch rockets at israel.

they would uproot metal pipes from the ground, use concrete, etc to launch more and more rockets at israel.

 

[Tom]

What does it matter?? Children born from Illegals in America are considered American Citizens.......but thats going to change I believe.....so what exactly is your point??

That isn't going to change. I already stated my point several posts ago.

 

[Lemon law]

yes, anyone born inside israels borders are considered citizens.

anyone outside of those borders are not.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is FGD, you are wrong, Israel employs thousands of Guest workers to do menial jobs inside Israel's borders. Some of them are married females who have many children while working inside Israel. As soon as the guest worker goes home, Israel deports such children to the shame of some in the Israeli nation. Those children get no citizenship in Israel.

 

[Freshgeardude]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The point is FGD, you are wrong, Israel employs thousands of Guest workers to do menial jobs inside Israel's borders. Some of them are married females who have many children while working inside Israel. As soon as the guest worker goes home, Israel deports such children to the shame of some in the Israeli nation. Those children get no citizenship in Israel.

your story is kind of hard to follow, but what you are trying to say is


women have babies inside israel, and those children dont get citizenship?

looks like Israel fixed the anchor baby issue that we in the United States are suffering from.


good for them.



and fwiw, you have a STORY not a fact. that story is probably made up, do you have any evidence to prove what you say is actually happening?

 

[Fern]

Here's another answer: we and the rest of the world have given them many billions for just those purposes, and they have received much outside consultation and help, and they still are. Some of it has actually gone to improve the infrustructure to a degree. As for what has happened to the bulk of it - you'll need to conduct a seance so that you can ask Arafat's ghost.

Yes, I am aware of that.

Perhaps I wasn't specific enough. Although I did say "our efforts" and that "We could train them and employ them".

Giving their leaders money and hoping it goes to the right places has proven a failure.

We need to design, train and supervise the infrastructure construction projects. We don't give them money to buy the contruction equip (catepillers etc) and materials, we buy it and deliver it ourselves etc.

Enhancing these peoples' quality of life, teaching them valuable employment skills (construction and agriculture) seems like a better use of our money and efforts than what we've been doing.

Fern

 

[woolfe9999]

Yes, I am aware of that.

Perhaps I wasn't specific enough. Although I did say "our efforts" and that "We could train them and employ them".

Giving their leaders money and hoping it goes to the right places has proven a failure.

We need to design, train and supervise the infrastructure construction projects. We don't give them money to buy the contruction equip (catepillers etc) and materials, we buy it and deliver it ourselves etc.

Enhancing these peoples' quality of life, teaching them valuable employment skills (construction and agriculture) seems like a better use of our money and efforts than what we've been doing.

Fern

I think *some* of that has been done. There has been some American contractors on the ground there, and some equipment has been delivered directly, by the US, Israel and many other countries, both private and public blocs. I think what really needs to happen is an incentive for private enterprise to get more involved there, but unfortunately there is still too much violence and instability for that.