Where is the line between cult and mainstream religion?

[ToeJam13]

LINK

An Indianapolis father is appealing a Marion County judge's unusual order that prohibits him and his ex-wife from exposing their child to "non-mainstream religious beliefs and rituals."

The parents practice Wicca, a contemporary pagan religion that emphasizes a balance in nature and reverence for the earth.

This article, along with another dealing with the Church of Body Modification and recent news about the Fundamentalist LDS really made me think about modern religion and the laws that require government and employers to respect the beliefs of said religions.

Where does the mainstream end and where does a fringe or underground religion start? Should these organizations be considered cults, clubs or real religions?

If I were forced to work in an environment where the religious coworker sitting next to me was prohibited from bathing during Pentecost because his fringe church was honoring the unbathed farmer toiling in the field, I would be offended. If this person really stank, I would most likely make a formal complaint of some sort. However, whose rights come first?

Not long ago, the Puyallup School District was forced to cancel its Halloween celebrations due to objections from Wicca. Should a cult or fringe religion have this much say over our schools?

 

[Steeplerot]

All religions are cults. And all should be respected the same. To favor one over the other is unfair just becasue one got it's start before another.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

All religions are cults. Goverment should not favor any of them in any way.


"Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false,
and the rulers see as useful"

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

All religions are cults. Goverment should not favor any of them in any way.


"Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false,
and the rulers see as useful"

Great quote, who said it? Also, I think there is a difference between a religion and a cult but that's just me.

 

[Steeplerot]

Cult:

A system or community of religious worship and ritual.

The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.

A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.

1. Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
2. The object of such devotion.

An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.


Some people will define it as being radical or small, but all religions were new or had few followers at some point. Thus all religions are cults by definition.

 

[Crimson]

Should something like Greenpeace be considered a cult then as well? Its kind of a religion as well, they just worship mother earth I guess.. Is atheism a religion? Agnosticism?

 

[Steeplerot]

greenpeace is not a religion.....they do not worship anything...where do you get this crap? Lay off the limbaugh that man does waay to many drugs.
That's like saying your job is a religion.

Aetheism does not worship ANYTHING, that's the point. agnostics, thats grey agnostics just don't know. maybe yes maybe no.

 

[Crimson]

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
greenpeace is not a religion.....they do not worship anything...where do you get this crap? Lay off the limbaugh that man does waay to many drugs.

Aetheism does not worship ANYTHING, that's the point. agnostics, thats grey agnostics just don't know. maybe yes maybe no.

Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

 

[Steeplerot]

in a worldview where there must be a god, it may be hard to comprehend but there is no worship, no god, thus no religion. get a grip.

athesists do not gather for the sake of believing in nothing, it is not a religion it is a nothing -thus the name aetheism.

when you have someone make up a plan or a entity to worship, then you have a belief.

you cannot worship a nothing, it is a non-entity. sorry you need to grasp something in your black and white world but you can't pull a rabbit from a empty hat, sorry, no such thing as magic in the real world.

 

[piasabird]

Religion is a belief in something not necessarily God. You can worship your car or your grass or even a rock or a mountain or a tree, or nature itself. Your gods can be elements or even the north star or the sun.

 

[InfectedMushroom]

Originally posted by: azazyel

Originally posted by: InfectedMushroom

All religions are cults. Goverment should not favor any of them in any way.


"Religion is what the common people see as true, the wise people see as false,
and the rulers see as useful"

Great quote, who said it? Also, I think there is a difference between a religion and a cult but that's just me.

Sorry forgot to add that. Seneca.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13
Not long ago, the Puyallup School District was forced to cancel its Halloween celebrations due to objections from Wicca. Should a cult or fringe religion have this much say over our schools?

Either we must be sensitive to the beliefs of all religious groups, or none. If some activity were planned that mainstream Christians found objectionable because they saw it as somehow sullying the name of Jesus, you can bet the activity would be cancelled or modified. Why should the sensitivities of Wiccans be given less respect?

The phrase, "establishment of religion" deals precisely with this concept of some religious beliefs being given more credence by government than others. The only way to NOT establish religion is to treat all legitimate religious beliefs equally.

 

[dornick]

I voted Maybe for both, because it depends on the circumstances. What if you had a "fringe religion" that demanded human sacrifice? Should the government respect it and its beliefs? We obviously didn't do so with Mormonism and polygamy.

All of us has a set of beliefs and a God we follow. For the most part, we're lucky that almost all of those beliefs overlap, which lets the government leave us alone and gives us the ilusion of freedom of religion. In reality, if you decided to adopt a religion that went against the United States, you'd end up in prison or giving up that religion.

 

[DanJ]

Originally posted by: Crimson
Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

Atheism is the lack of religion, the lack of a belief. Therefore it is not a religion. Religion deals in the supernatural, atheism does not. Its not that hard to comprehend.

 

[conjur]

Yes and Yes.

Since when do the "majors" have a monopoly on apparent "truth" or moral righteousness?

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Crimson
Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

Atheism is the lack of religion, the lack of a belief. Therefore it is not a religion. Religion deals in the supernatural, atheism does not. Its not that hard to comprehend.

That's not necessarily true. An atheist can be in a religion. Buddhism doesn't really have a god, yet it's considered a religion.

Atheism isn't a lack of belief, it's a lack of belief in a god.

That being said, atheism is no more a religion than theism (in the generic sense) is. There's no set belief structure in atheism besides lack of belief in a god. Sure an atheist can be religious but that doesn't mean atheism is a religion. It's just stupid calling it that.

 

[ToeJam13]

Originally posted by: dornick
I voted Maybe for both, because it depends on the circumstances. What if you had a "fringe religion" that demanded human sacrifice? Should the government respect it and its beliefs? We obviously didn't do so with Mormonism and polygamy.

All of us has a set of beliefs and a God we follow. For the most part, we're lucky that almost all of those beliefs overlap, which lets the government leave us alone and gives us the ilusion of freedom of religion. In reality, if you decided to adopt a religion that went against the United States, you'd end up in prison or giving up that religion.

My issue is when a fringe religion becomes more of a club than a spiritual faith. Who says that the Cult of the Cow is any less of a religion than Wicca? What if I were to start the Zionists Church of Cannabis Creationism, in which members must be under the influence of marijuana in order to truly understand the word of God?

Modern religions are becoming more and more outlandish and unbelievable. I mean we have religions that believe that we?re descended from aliens or those who believe that Jesus is to find the perfect mate and produce perfect children.

Who's decision is it to say when an organization or group establishment becomes a religion?

 

[ciba]

I said yes and no. While I really believe employers should respect an employees' religion, there is an extent to which they should draw the line.

If the employee's religion conflicts with the business owner's religion, then I can understand the employer's rejection of the employee.

Additionally, if the employee's religion interferes with the business itself (for example, the recent issues with piercings and Costco), the employee should find work more accepting of their religion. Costco has a reasonable objection to the piercing in the sense that its customers find piercings objectionable.

 

[Infohawk]

This anti-wicca stuff is outrageous. If anything, wicca is less absurd than fundamentalist christianity. It doesn't reallyh matter though. Both are absurd and should be treated equally.

 

[sunzt]

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Crimson
Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

Atheism is the lack of religion, the lack of a belief. Therefore it is not a religion. Religion deals in the supernatural, atheism does not. Its not that hard to comprehend.

That's not necessarily true. An atheist can be in a religion. Buddhism doesn't really have a god, yet it's considered a religion.

Atheism isn't a lack of belief, it's a lack of belief in a god.

That being said, atheism is no more a religion than theism (in the generic sense) is. There's no set belief structure in atheism besides lack of belief in a god. Sure an atheist can be religious but that doesn't mean atheism is a religion. It's just stupid calling it that.

Hombre,

Buddhism has gods, but it mainly worships the Buddah (its idol). It also deals with afterlife and the supernatural. For those reasons ,and more, Buddhism is considered a religion.

The only way I can see atheism being classified as a religion is if you consider a belief (any belief) such as the disbelief in the existence of God or Gods to be a religious belief. Then this rationale would mean that Confucianism would be considered a relgion, which it's not (it's a philosophy on how to live).

I define religion as having all these characteristics:
-worship of some entity/spirit(s)/idol
-some sort of guidlines on how to live/believe
-deals with the afterlife or the supernatural.

 

[Jakebrake]

Originally posted by: dornick
I voted Maybe for both, because it depends on the circumstances. What if you had a "fringe religion" that demanded human sacrifice? Should the government respect it and its beliefs? We obviously didn't do so with Mormonism and polygamy.

All of us has a set of beliefs and a God we follow. For the most part, we're lucky that almost all of those beliefs overlap, which lets the government leave us alone and gives us the ilusion of freedom of religion. In reality, if you decided to adopt a religion that went against the United States, you'd end up in prison or giving up that religion.

There is freedom to practice any religion as long as you don't harm another person, human "sacrifice" is defined as murder. Marriage as far as government is involved is a civil contract codified in statute between two people. Someone can have many religious marriages, but only the first marriage is a legal marriage.

There is no illusion of freedom of religion. Locking someone up based upon their religion is a violation of not only their civil rights, but their human rights. This country is more of a idea/concept than a physical entity. If those ideals are tossed aside, this is no longer the counrty that the "founding" fathers envisioned. (Another topic is the beliefs of vs. practices of the founding fathers.)

...anyway it's late and I'm a little tipsy.

Edit: Religious organizations have a nonproffit and tax exempt status, but when they become political action organizations their tax status changes (into 501-c3 or 501-c4 I think). They can practice all the free speech they want, but pay up softy!

 

[Kadarin]

Christianity and Wicca are equally absurd and arbitrary, in my opinion. The only difference between a cult and a religion is the number of followers..

 

[dornick]

Originally posted by: Jakebrake

Originally posted by: dornick
I voted Maybe for both, because it depends on the circumstances. What if you had a "fringe religion" that demanded human sacrifice? Should the government respect it and its beliefs? We obviously didn't do so with Mormonism and polygamy.

All of us has a set of beliefs and a God we follow. For the most part, we're lucky that almost all of those beliefs overlap, which lets the government leave us alone and gives us the ilusion of freedom of religion. In reality, if you decided to adopt a religion that went against the United States, you'd end up in prison or giving up that religion.

There is freedom to practice any religion as long as you don't harm another person, human "sacrifice" is defined as murder. Marriage as far as government is involved is a civil contract codified in statute between two people. Someone can have many religious marriages, but only the first marriage is a legal marriage.

There is no illusion of freedom of religion. Locking someone up based upon their religion is a violation of not only their civil rights, but their human rights. This country is more of a idea/concept than a physical entity. If those ideals are tossed aside, this is no longer the counrty that the "founding" fathers envisioned. (Another topic is the beliefs of vs. practices of the founding fathers.)

I don't think you're quite understanding what I'm saying. I said that if someone adopted a religion that, say, involved divulging information to another country, that person WOULD be headed to prison, AGAINST their religious freedom, just as someone who praticed human sacrifice would.

I know the Supreme Court has realized this inherent flaw in the "freedom of religion" and has set a precedent essentially saying you may think whatever you want, but your religious actions are limited. This is what I mean by illusion, because any religion that involves taking action the State doesn't like WILL be suppressed by the governement.

 

[BDawg]

If the "leader" of your "religion" tells you to do something, such as buy illegal weapons, cut off your testicles, or kill pigs like Sharon Tate, you're probably in a cult.

 

[HombrePequeno]

Originally posted by: sunzt

Originally posted by: HombrePequeno

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Crimson
Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

Atheism is the lack of religion, the lack of a belief. Therefore it is not a religion. Religion deals in the supernatural, atheism does not. Its not that hard to comprehend.

That's not necessarily true. An atheist can be in a religion. Buddhism doesn't really have a god, yet it's considered a religion.

Atheism isn't a lack of belief, it's a lack of belief in a god.

That being said, atheism is no more a religion than theism (in the generic sense) is. There's no set belief structure in atheism besides lack of belief in a god. Sure an atheist can be religious but that doesn't mean atheism is a religion. It's just stupid calling it that.

Hombre,

Buddhism has gods, but it mainly worships the Buddah (its idol). It also deals with afterlife and the supernatural. For those reasons ,and more, Buddhism is considered a religion.

The only way I can see atheism being classified as a religion is if you consider a belief (any belief) such as the disbelief in the existence of God or Gods to be a religious belief. Then this rationale would mean that Confucianism would be considered a relgion, which it's not (it's a philosophy on how to live).

I define religion as having all these characteristics:
-worship of some entity/spirit(s)/idol
-some sort of guidlines on how to live/believe
-deals with the afterlife or the supernatural.

I understand certain sects of Buddhism believe in god(s) but the main ones (Mahayana, Theravada, and Zen) are agnostic. Also some sects are atheist.

I agree with your definition of religion except for the first part. I think the latter two are the only thing needed for a religion.