Where is the line between cult and mainstream religion?

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13
[Topic Title: Where is the line between cult and mainstream religion?
Topic Summary: And should the government recognize a cult as a religion.

The U.S. Government already recognizes a cult as a religion and has given it full control of the Government.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: ToeJam13
[Topic Title: Where is the line between cult and mainstream religion?
Topic Summary: And should the government recognize a cult as a religion.

The U.S. Government already recognizes a cult as a religion and has given it full control of the Government.

Son a biatch - Christian Coalition just called my cell phone costing me money for inbound call.

This Country better rise up to this Christian Bullsh!t and NOW!!!

 

[CQuinn]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13

My issue is when a fringe religion becomes more of a club than a spiritual faith.

No the problem is you have your perceptions backwards, all fringe religions start off as more of a club and build their way
into spiritual faith by gathering followers and influence.

Who says that the Cult of the Cow is any less of a religion than Wicca?

Without delving too deep into it, The Cult of the Cow is viewed by most as a parody of regular religous practice, which does
not give lifetime spiritual, moral and ethical advice.
While Wicca is built upon a foundation of various pagan practices that trace their origin to tribal rituals from the early ages
of civilization, and (as some claim) may even pre-date christianity in the bulk of its creation. Wicca also attempts to provide
lessong to guide thier believers on a spiritual, moral and ethical lifestyle, but one that does not share all the same concepts
as other established religions.

Granted, there are also people who claim to be pagan or Wiccan, but seem to be using it more as a statement against
established religion than as an actual practice of personal belief.

What if I were to start the Zionists Church of Cannabis Creationism, in which members must be under the influence of marijuana in order to truly understand the word of God?

You mean like Rastafarianism? You could try that, but you would need
to be able to provide evidence of more to your beliefs that just an excuse to smoke a bowl. It might help to have
an encyclopedia entry that explains where your church got its start, and what its common beliefs and practices are.

Modern religions are becoming more and more outlandish and unbelievable.

As compared to what? The ancient Greeks and Romans? The Norse? Or maybe the Eqyptians, who had to fend off a cult
of thier own, when on of the Pharoahs (Ankhenaten) turned away from the common belief in people with the heads of
animals as the real gods of Egypt, and starting teaching a belief that there is only one true god who exists above all
things high in the sky.

I mean we have religions that believe that we?re descended from aliens

And we have had religions that believe god meant us to reject the benefits of modern science (Amish) and medicine
(Christian Scientist). (I won't even touch Catholicism).

or those who believe that Jesus is to find the perfect mate and produce perfect children.

Of course the moonies seem kinda whacky on the surface, but they might equally argue that they are just taking the
"sanctity of marriage" to its logical end.

Who's decision is it to say when an organization or group establishment becomes a religion?

That's a very good question, and it is one that even the Founding Fathers did not have a good answer to. Which is
why they tried to create a system that would be open to the possibility that other religions were equally valid along
with the teachings of the Church of England.

 

[BBond]

Where is the line between cult and mainstream religion?

Currently at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington, DC.

 

[Looney]

Originally posted by: Crimson

Originally posted by: Steeplerot
greenpeace is not a religion.....they do not worship anything...where do you get this crap? Lay off the limbaugh that man does waay to many drugs.

Aetheism does not worship ANYTHING, that's the point. agnostics, thats grey agnostics just don't know. maybe yes maybe no.

Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

Because it's a null. It's like saying i don't believe in unicorns is a religion. How can an opinion of nothing be considered a belief in that nothing, a faith in that nothing?

 

[ToeJam13]

Originally posted by: CQuinn

Originally posted by: ToeJam13

My issue is when a fringe religion becomes more of a club than a spiritual faith.

No the problem is you have your perceptions backwards, all fringe religions start off as more of a club and build their way into spiritual faith by gathering followers and influence.

I guess a better question is, how do we tell (and how do we act) with an organization that has falsely been created or labeled as a religion when it?s really just a group of die-hard fans? To me, it seems a very slippery slope because it truly is hard to tell if they?re just full of themselves, are simply brainwashed or are true disciples of a new religion?

What if I were to start the Zionists Church of Cannabis Creationism, in which members must be under the influence of marijuana in order to truly understand the word of God?

You mean like Rastafarianism? You could try that, but you would need to be able to provide evidence of more to your beliefs that just an excuse to smoke a bowl. It might help to have an encyclopedia entry that explains where your church got its start, and what its common beliefs and practices are.

I guess they?ve laid the groundwork, but I doubt the Feds would honor our pot smoking sermons.

Modern religions are becoming more and more outlandish and unbelievable.

As compared to what? The ancient Greeks and Romans? The Norse? Or maybe the Eqyptians, who had to fend off a cult of thier own, when on of the Pharoahs (Ankhenaten) turned away from the common belief in people with the heads of animals as the real gods of Egypt, and starting teaching a belief that there is only one true god who exists above all things high in the sky.

It seems that as our understanding of the universe has grown, so have the ideas and boundaries of where we came from. I might just be old fashioned and close minded, but coming up with a new religion after reading some Joules Vern novels sounds more like a desperate attempt for attention than a new belief in the cosmos.

Who's decision is it to say when an organization or group establishment becomes a religion?

That's a very good question, and it is one that even the Founding Fathers did not have a good answer to. Which is why they tried to create a system that would be open to the possibility that other religions were equally valid along with the teachings of the Church of England.

They had to. When you really look at it, many of the original settlers in the New World were religious outcasts from the Old World. They had the freakish and non-conforming views.

I guess what I am really trying to get at is where do we draw the line. A cult that does harm against its own members should not be recognized, it should be disbanded. And people trying to push their organization as a religion just so they can get away with things in the name of religion should also be scrutinized.

 

[Rainsford]

I forget who said this, but it's really true.

A religion is a large, popular cult. A cult is a small, unpopular religion.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Crimson
Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

Atheism is the lack of religion, the lack of a belief. Therefore it is not a religion. Religion deals in the supernatural, atheism does not. Its not that hard to comprehend.

One entry found for religion.
Main Entry: re·li·gion
Pronunciation: ri-'li-j&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English religioun, from Latin religion-, religio supernatural constraint, sanction, religious practice, perhaps from religare to restrain, tie back -- more at RELY
1 a : the state of a religious <a nun in her 20th year of religion> b (1) : the service and worship of God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance
2 : a personal set or institutionalized system of religious attitudes, beliefs, and practices
3 archaic : scrupulous conformity : CONSCIENTIOUSNESS
4 : a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Cerb
a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Atheists don't have faith. Sorry. Nice try though.

 

[judasmachine]

a cult is a religion without political power.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Atheists don't have faith. Sorry. Nice try though.

1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

Belief, while at it:
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon

Atheism:
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Doctrine:
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

So, you disbelieve in the existence of a deity, which is a system of a belief, and adhere to that belief, but somehow do not have a religion? Religion doesn't require a god, or anything supernatural. It just requires belief in something, including an ethical principle, that is firmly held.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Atheists don't have faith. Sorry. Nice try though.

1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

Belief, while at it:
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon

Atheism:
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Doctrine:
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

So, you disbelieve in the existence of a deity, which is a system of a belief, and adhere to that belief, but somehow do not have a religion? Religion doesn't require a god, or anything supernatural. It just requires belief in something, including an ethical principle, that is firmly held.

So if I believe that you are an idiot I have a Religion?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Are you part of the no unicorn religion? I assume you don't believe in unicorns. By your logic that makes you part of a no unicorn religion.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Atheists don't have faith. Sorry. Nice try though.

1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

Belief, while at it:
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon

Atheism:
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Doctrine:
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

So, you disbelieve in the existence of a deity, which is a system of a belief, and adhere to that belief, but somehow do not have a religion? Religion doesn't require a god, or anything supernatural. It just requires belief in something, including an ethical principle, that is firmly held.

So if I believe that you are an idiot I have a Religion?

If it is a principle or belief that affects your daily life, sure. I didn't think I was that important *sniff*

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Cerb
If it is a principle or belief that affects your daily life, sure. I didn't think I was that important *sniff*

I believe in not stepping in front of moving cars. This affects my daily life. Is that a religion? Of course not.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb

Are you part of the no unicorn religion? I assume you don't believe in unicorns. By your logic that makes you part of a no unicorn religion.

If anyone would care to make a religion so useless as to have such a thing as its primary belief, yes. However, that would be unlikely, given how meaningless such a thing would be.

If you have no firmly held beliefs on what is or is not beyond normal perception, that would be under "irreligious" or "agnostic".

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
If it is a principle or belief that affects your daily life, sure. I didn't think I was that important *sniff*

I believe in not stepping in front of moving cars. This affects my daily life. Is that a religion? Of course not.

And that is not a entity or principle, without stretching them through more steps than I bothered to go through.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
If it is a principle or belief that affects your daily life, sure. I didn't think I was that important *sniff*

I believe in not stepping in front of moving cars. This affects my daily life. Is that a religion? Of course not.

And that is not a entity or principle, without stretching them through more steps than I bothered to go through.

It's just as much as a principle as not believing in unicorns or god. Listen, you want to make religion so vauge in its meaning that it becomes essentially useless as an idea and a word.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
If it is a principle or belief that affects your daily life, sure. I didn't think I was that important *sniff*

I believe in not stepping in front of moving cars. This affects my daily life. Is that a religion? Of course not.

And that is not a entity or principle, without stretching them through more steps than I bothered to go through.

It's just as much as a principle as not believing in unicorns or god. Listen, you want to make religion so vauge in its meaning that it becomes essentially useless as an idea and a word.

It already wasn't?

"Church" and "congregation" refer to organized, or merely massed, groups with similar beliefs, and generally to be preached to. "Religion" is vague, and need not be more specific, as there are plenty of words for specific groups, and their properties and behaviors.

Edit: Very interesting, but long, read
longer one

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Religion as it is most commonly used, unlike your bastardization, is a useful term. If it really didn't mean anything, it would probably not be part of the language.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb

Religion as it is most commonly used, unlike your bastardization, is a useful term. If it really didn't mean anything, it would probably not be part of the language.

link

OK, let's go simple again, since the semantics went to a wall: would you consider that religious discrimination?

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb

Religion as it is most commonly used, unlike your bastardization, is a useful term. If it really didn't mean anything, it would probably not be part of the language.

link

OK, let's go simple again, since the semantics went to a wall: would you consider that religious discrimination?

Sure. They fired her for her lack of religion.

 

[nutxo]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb

Religion as it is most commonly used, unlike your bastardization, is a useful term. If it really didn't mean anything, it would probably not be part of the language.

link

OK, let's go simple again, since the semantics went to a wall: would you consider that religious discrimination?

Sure. They fired her for her lack of religion.

I would be interested to know what it said on her business card that was so inflammatory 2 people asked to be moved away form her. Did I just not see it?

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
If it is a principle or belief that affects your daily life, sure. I didn't think I was that important *sniff*

I believe in not stepping in front of moving cars. This affects my daily life. Is that a religion? Of course not.

And that is not a entity or principle, without stretching them through more steps than I bothered to go through.

It's just as much as a principle as not believing in unicorns or god. Listen, you want to make religion so vauge in its meaning that it becomes essentially useless as an idea and a word.

yea making everything a religion is just absurd. not believing the world is flat. a religion? if true, then christians are guilty of believing in more than one religion at once. thats a sin isn't it.

 

[The Green Bean]

Originally posted by: DanJ

Originally posted by: Crimson
Explain how atheism is NOT a religion.. the belief that there is no god is a form of religion as well.

Atheism is the lack of religion, the lack of a belief. Therefore it is not a religion. Religion deals in the supernatural, atheism does not. Its not that hard to comprehend.

The creation of the particle. The birth of time and matter. IS that NOT supernatural?