Where is the line between cult and mainstream religion?

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: hatim
The creation of the particle. The birth of time and matter. IS that NOT supernatural?

Do you have any reason to think it's supernatural?

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Cerb

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Cerb
a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith

Atheists don't have faith. Sorry. Nice try though.

1 a : allegiance to duty or a person : LOYALTY b (1) : fidelity to one's promises (2) : sincerity of intentions
2 a (1) : belief and trust in and loyalty to God (2) : belief in the traditional doctrines of a religion b (1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof (2) : complete trust
3 : something that is believed especially with strong conviction; especially : a system of religious beliefs
synonym see BELIEF
- in faith : without doubt or question : VERILY

Belief, while at it:
1 : a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
2 : something believed; especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
3 : conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon

Atheism:
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity b : the doctrine that there is no deity

Doctrine:
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

So, you disbelieve in the existence of a deity, which is a system of a belief, and adhere to that belief, but somehow do not have a religion? Religion doesn't require a god, or anything supernatural. It just requires belief in something, including an ethical principle, that is firmly held.

So if I believe that you are an idiot I have a Religion?

If it is a principle or belief that affects your daily life, sure. I didn't think I was that important *sniff*

No worries, I don't believe you are an idiot.
Well since not believing in Myths and God(s) doesn't effect my daily life then me being an Atheist is not a religion in my case.

 

[Infohawk]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Well since not believing in Myths and God(s) doesn't effect my daily life then me being an Atheist is not a religion in my case.

:laugh: Don't worry, he will redefine 'religion' again to include you somehow.

 

[Riprorin]

What is a Cult?

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group?s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (West & Langone, 1986)

What Are Some Characteristics of a Cult?
Authoritarian in their power structure
Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members
Pyramidal structure
Uses thought reform techniques
Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society
Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising
Promotes dependence of the members on the group
Totalitarian in their world view
Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking
Appear exclusive and innovative
Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life
Controls the flow of information
Instills a fear of leaving the group.

Link

Seems like a reasonable defintion/characterization to me.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
What is a Cult?

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group?s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (West & Langone, 1986)

What Are Some Characteristics of a Cult?
Authoritarian in their power structure
Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members
Pyramidal structure
Uses thought reform techniques
Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society
Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising
Promotes dependence of the members on the group
Totalitarian in their world view
Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking
Appear exclusive and innovative
Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life
Controls the flow of information
Instills a fear of leaving the group.

Link

Seems like a reasonable defintion/characterization to me.

Sounds like the 700 club

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
What is a Cult?

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group?s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (West & Langone, 1986)

What Are Some Characteristics of a Cult?
Authoritarian in their power structure
Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members
Pyramidal structure
Uses thought reform techniques
Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society
Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising
Promotes dependence of the members on the group
Totalitarian in their world view
Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking
Appear exclusive and innovative
Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life
Controls the flow of information
Instills a fear of leaving the group.

Link

Seems like a reasonable defintion/characterization to me.

Sounds like the 700 club

Sounds like BushCo's Republican party.

 

[ToeJam13]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
What is a Cult?

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group?s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (West & Langone, 1986)

Sounds like the 700 club

Now now, play nice.

For once, I agree with Riprorin. The modern definition of a cult was well defined by his answer.

However, when you come to think of it, Christianity started as a cult of sorts. Its initial members were very dedicated, willing to loose their lives in order to achieve salvation. It wasn?t until centuries after Jesus death did the Church begin to assert grievous control over its disciples due to greed and corruption.

However, that quest for power was not there when the Christians first started practicing. That power was created by the natural human behavior in which ?absolute power corrupts absolutely? that came much later.

A better example of absolute power that started near the origins of a cult can be seen with the Mormon Church. Brigham Young was blasphemous in his corruption of Biblical teachings and events and deceitful in his lust for power as the new head of the Church after the death of Joseph Smith.

 

[Cerb]

Originally posted by: Infohawk

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Well since not believing in Myths and God(s) doesn't effect my daily life then me being an Atheist is not a religion in my case.

:laugh: Don't worry, he will redefine 'religion' again to include you somehow.

Well, let's see...

*crack, rumble, THWAP*

Nope. My logic torsion machine broke.

 

[Emultra]

Religion? Cult?

It's all mental insanity. Or at the very least, intellectual dishonesty.

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: ToeJam13

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Riprorin
What is a Cult?

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group?s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (West & Langone, 1986)

Sounds like the 700 club

Now now, play nice.

For once, I agree with Riprorin. The modern definition of a cult was well defined by his answer.

However, when you come to think of it, Christianity started as a cult of sorts. Its initial members were very dedicated, willing to loose their lives in order to achieve salvation. It wasn?t until centuries after Jesus death did the Church begin to assert grievous control over its disciples due to greed and corruption.

However, that quest for power was not there when the Christians first started practicing. That power was created by the natural human behavior in which ?absolute power corrupts absolutely? that came much later.

A better example of absolute power that started near the origins of a cult can be seen with the Mormon Church. Brigham Young was blasphemous in his corruption of Biblical teachings and events and deceitful in his lust for power as the new head of the Church after the death of Joseph Smith.

And you know this because you are a Mormon?

 

[judasmachine]

Originally posted by: Riprorin
What is a Cult?

"A cult is a group or movement exhibiting a great or excessive devotion or dedication to some person, idea, or thing and employing unethically manipulative techniques of persuasion and control (e.g., isolation from former friends and family, debilitation, use of special methods to heighten suggestibility and subservience, powerful group pressures, information management, suspension of individuality or critical judgment, promotion of total dependency on the group and fear of leaving it, etc.) designed to advance the goals of the group?s leaders to the actual or possible detriment of members, their families, or the community." (West & Langone, 1986)

What Are Some Characteristics of a Cult?
Authoritarian in their power structure
Totalitarian in their control of the behavior of their members
Pyramidal structure
Uses thought reform techniques
Isolation of members (physical and/or psychological isolation) from society
Uses deception in recruiting and/or fund raising
Promotes dependence of the members on the group
Totalitarian in their world view
Uses mind altering techniques (chanting, meditation, hypnosis and various forms of repetitive actions) to stop normal critical thinking
Appear exclusive and innovative
Charismatic or messianic leader who is self-appointed and has a special mission in life
Controls the flow of information
Instills a fear of leaving the group.

Link

Seems like a reasonable defintion/characterization to me.

That is definately one definition of a cult but by no means the only one. Your definition is somewhat narrow.

 

[datalink7]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Well since not believing in Myths and God(s) doesn't effect my daily life then me being an Atheist is not a religion in my case.

Same here. Not believing in God doesn't guide my actions any more than not believing there is a monster in my closet. I don't ever think about it (unless someone else brings up the subject).

 

[ToeJam13]

Originally posted by: Tripleshot

Originally posted by: ToeJam13
A better example of absolute power that started near the origins of a cult can be seen with the Mormon Church. Brigham Young was blasphemous in his corruption of Biblical teachings and events and deceitful in his lust for power as the new head of the Church after the death of Joseph Smith.

And you know this because you are a Mormon?

I know this because I can read. There are numerous books and articles on the origins of the Mormon Church available for research.

I?ve also heard stories told by a friend who spent some time with the Church during his youth. Much of what he stated matched that of other sources.

And for the record, I currently am NOT, and never have been a Mormon.

 

[Steeplerot]

what's up with the old story from eyewitnesses that smith jumped out of a window and commited suicide?

mormons always swear this is untrue but never saw anything to support their story.

same deal with denial about being pirates of the prarie schooners, killingand robbing christian familys heading west into their promised land.

scary cultists....with that friendly grin when you see their missionaries...eek!