Where's my bottleneck?

[modex20]

I'm looking to drop a little bit of coin on my system to try to gain some more FPS in shooter type games (ATM it's BlackOps). I was wondering which upgrade would yield the most bang for buck.

I'm thinking CPU/RAM, as people claim that BlackOps is CPU intensive. But my video card isn't exactly new either.

Here is my current system:

Q6600
ASUS P5N32-E SLI mobo
Cooler Master Hyper TX3 with arctic silver thermal paste
eVga GTX 260
4GB DDR2 533 RAM in dual channel mode.
Raptor 10kRPM drive.
Win7 Pro x64

Hardware is running at stock.

A lot of people in the CPU boards say that the Q6600 is easy to overclock. However my ram is shitty and cheap. So if CPU is the bottleneck, could I upgrade to fast 4-4-4-12 DDR2 800 ran and overlock my quad pumped FSB to 1333?

 

[Davidh373]

not much of a bottleneck there, just a 3-4 year old build that was great then and is good now. For now I would wait for Sandy Bridge coming Q1 next year, and get you a Processor/Motherboard/RAM upgrade. If your build runs Modern Warfare 2 fine it should run Black Ops fine. Right now, if you were to make any upgrade, I would get a GTX 560 (when it releases) or 570 to transition into the new build for next year.

You could get new RAM, but what is the point exactly if you'll just need to get new DDR3 when you get a new chipset?

 

[Zap]

A lot of people in the CPU boards say that the Q6600 is easy to overclock. However my ram is shitty and cheap. So if CPU is the bottleneck, could I upgrade to fast 4-4-4-12 DDR2 800 ran and overlock my quad pumped FSB to 1333?

The Q6600 can usually get near 3GHz. Better steppings can get more depending on your motherboard. The TX3 may not allow you to get the most out of your CPU, but you should be able to push it a bit at least.

You don't need to upgrade your RAM to overclock. Just lower the memory speed as you raise your FSB. You'll get a lot more out of a faster CPU speed than you would out of faster RAM speed.

 

[mfenn]

Yep, just as Zap said, use the memory divider in the BIOS to lower the memory's effective speed as you raise the FSB.

Other than that, get a GPU. How much is a "little bit of coin"?

 

[superccs]

Yeah just throw a fat GPU in there. Your q6600 should be able to hold up its end of the bargain.

 

[DominionSeraph]

I would get a GTX 560 (when it releases) or 570 to transition into the new build for next year.

Bah, why wait for a hypothetical 560? Nvidia needed to drop the 580 and 570 ASAP because the 480 and 470 were jokes (and the GTX 465 was soooo bad that nobody ever talked about it to even make fun of it.) But the GTX 460 never suffered from their faults, and with its performance it bludgeons AMD's entire product line at its current price.
I do not foresee GTX 560 dropping at $180 (did the 570 drop at $250?), but 1GB GTX 460's can be had for $165 AR. So why not SLI now?
GTX 580 performance for $330.

 

[Davidh373]

What was the problem with the 470 and 480 if I may ask? I have one and I haven't had a problem with it.

 

[Rifter]

What was the problem with the 470 and 480 if I may ask? I have one and I haven't had a problem with it.

Other than the power draw there is no problems with it. The ATI fanboys just like to bash it because of the power draw.

 

[DominionSeraph]

What was the problem with the 470 and 480 if I may ask? I have one and I haven't had a problem with it.

Loud; hot; to buy one as an upgrade is likely to need a new power supply to go along with it; and any build with overhead for SLI is gonna cost you $100 more in a PSU that can handle the draw.
A single GTX 480 had nearly the draw of 5870 CF.

GTX 580 and GTX 570 are much improved.

Other than the power draw there is no problems with it. The ATI fanboys just like to bash it because of the power draw.

No fanboiism needed. The GF100 was a turd. There's only ever been one reason to buy one over a GF104: CS5.

 

[Davidh373]

Loud; hot; to buy one as an upgrade is likely to need a new power supply to go along with it; and any build with overhead for SLI is gonna cost you $100 more in a PSU that can handle the draw.
A single GTX 480 had nearly the draw of 5870 CF.

GTX 580 and GTX 570 are much improved.

ahh, well for one thing I didn't care about SLI, I'm running a 650W and it's fine. I wanted it for the CUDA lol.

 

[tHa ShIzNiT]

Dang OP, we have very similar rigs. Down to the Raptor 10k drive. Granted, it was a popular build at the time. This post was extremely helpful to me also, I have a Q6600 at 3.1 Ghz now but my video card is even worse than the OP's, its a 8800GT. I was planning on waiting until Sandy Bridge to build a new PC but now that I have read this I have realized that I can already start my build by getting a GTX570 or something in that range and plug it into my rig right now for a huge performance increase. Great success!

 

[Davidh373]

Dang OP, we have very similar rigs. Down to the Raptor 10k drive. Granted, it was a popular build at the time. This post was extremely helpful to me also, I have a Q6600 at 3.1 Ghz now but my video card is even worse than the OP's, its a 8800GT. I was planning on waiting until Sandy Bridge to build a new PC but now that I have read this I have realized that I can already start my build by getting a GTX570 or something in that range and plug it into my rig right now for a huge performance increase. Great success!

Yeah, I would anyway. You might even find you don't need a new build.

 

[modex20]

I tried overclocking my CPU with the crappy DDR2-533 ram I have now.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2124248

Any memory divider setting other than 1:1 just pushes my ram even harder. I believe the point of the divider settings is the opposite: when the FSB isn't letting your RAM run at its max speed, you give it a ratio so that it is X times that of the bus speed.

In 1:1 mode and 1333FSB, the RAM gets clocked to 667. This is cheap Kingston ValueRam. And windows just crashes on boot.

If I try my board's "Unlinked" mode, I can dial my FSB to 1333 and my RAM to 533, but I don't even get past POST.

 

[mfenn]

I tried overclocking my CPU with the crappy DDR2-533 ram I have now.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2124248

Any memory divider setting other than 1:1 just pushes my ram even harder. I believe the point of the divider settings is the opposite: when the FSB isn't letting your RAM run at its max speed, you give it a ratio so that it is X times that of the bus speed.

In 1:1 mode and 1333FSB, the RAM gets clocked to 667. This is cheap Kingston ValueRam. And windows just crashes on boot.

If I try my board's "Unlinked" mode, I can dial my FSB to 1333 and my RAM to 533, but I don't even get past POST.

Depends on what dividers your mobo exposes. Of course, it's definitely not worth getting a new 775 board at this point in time.

Anywho, your greatest gains are going to be had by getting a new GPU.

 

[modex20]

I OC'd my GTX260 to 770/1590/1230 core/shader/memory clock using evga precision and gained no performance in blackops whatsoever. My FPS hovers around 40 but drops below 30 during heavy action. During no action it can break 60.

MW2 never had performance problems.

The core usage graph in Precision never shows the GPU pegged at 100% in the history.

I hear rumors about the game being CPU heavy. Anyone who plays the game w/o issue always has a nehalem generation cpu.

I'm having trouble believing it's my GPU here.

 

[mfenn]

I was speaking in the general sense that shooters are more GPU dependent. Over a wide range of games, the GPU will help you more.

IF you're interesting in Black Ops and only Black Ops, it sounds like you could be CPU-limited. Try turning the resolution and graphics all the way down and see what your framerates look like. If they have not improved, then yes, you're probably looking at a CPU upgrade (don't spend money on DDR2 at this point). You can get an i5 760, good motherboard, and 4GB of DDR3 1333 for about $350.

 

[modex20]

good DDR2 is pretty cheap now. can't i just buy some of that and OC my Q6600?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231209

 

[Zap]

In 1:1 mode and 1333FSB, the RAM gets clocked to 667. This is cheap Kingston ValueRam. And windows just crashes on boot.

If I try my board's "Unlinked" mode, I can dial my FSB to 1333 and my RAM to 533, but I don't even get past POST.

Using unlinked mode, how high can you get the CPU? FSB 1333 would get the CPU to 3.3GHz, right? Not all Q6600 can do that, especially the older stepping which usually topped out at closer to 3GHz (without big voltage or cooling).

You need to bump up the FSB in increments and test as you go. You can't just slap a big number on it and hope it works.

Have you over-volted your RAM? It is probably 1.8v, and usually DDR2 can safely go to around 1.9-2.0v. Also, have you relaxed your timings? Find the CAS latency, and manually add 1 to it.

 

[modex20]

FSB 1333 is a 333MHz core clock so 3.0GHz (9x multiplier).

Over volted the RAM to 2.0 (1.8 spec).

Timing was dialed in at 5-5-5-15

 

[mfenn]

good DDR2 is pretty cheap now. can't i just buy some of that and OC my Q6600?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820231209

That would pretty much be throwing good money away. You really should be fine in unlinked mode. If your Q6600 is of the older B3 stepping, you'll likely top out below 3GHz.

 

[modex20]

It's a newer G0 Revision (CPUID calls it Stepping B, Revision G0).

Even with the Vcore cranked up to 1.7 windows still won't boot. I can't believe this thing can't go up to 3GHz.

The best I can do right now is 2.6GHz

 

[mfenn]

It's a newer G0 Revision (CPUID calls it Stepping B, Revision G0).

Even with the Vcore cranked up to 1.7 windows still won't boot. I can't believe this thing can't go up to 3GHz.

The best I can do right now is 2.6GHz

Some are lemons, though it could of course be the board. As with the memory though, it's not worth spending 1/2 the cost of a new setup just for the chance of a better OC.

EDIT: I'm not a Core 2 overclocking expert though. Somebody else might know of something obvious that we're missing.